[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[ranzino]

Because Story has always been first and foremost in the minds of the devs. They've long stated the game is a Final Fantasy game first, an MMO second.

"MMO second" is also the reason PvP is not a core feature. FF14 is adamant about cooperative play and demands your presence in multiple dungeons etc. as part of main story questline; unless you purchase a boost from the shop you cannot advance into next expansion without said dungeons solved.

to be honest: most players in FF14 give a moogle's butt about PvP by now.

[Onikaroshi]

You are probably correct. Actually I know you are. But I think what pains me the most is to see the game I have loved for 17 years turn into a pile of shit now where the devs clearly don't give a fuck at all. It is now about the money and how better to get it out of you. The give zero fucks about you having fun in the game. It is now how can they keep you in the game longer and how to make you give up money to get the token.

I know WoW gamers harp on FF, and vice versa. I am also in that pile as well. But man I don't feel like I have to log on and stay in FF. I have fun for about 2 to 4 hours then log for a bit to do things in real life then return nothing lost. Hell I can even take a few days off and return. EVERYONE in these forums and in WoW know that shit is not happening. It will set you behind. It is just sad to see WoW in this shit state of GIMME GIMME.

I still enjoy both games honestly, just quit wow for now because SL content is taking too long to come out and they're not really providing anything in .5 patches like they usually do. They're struggling over there more than any other dev.

[Muskrat]

Loving every laff here, this retarded ape pretending FF14 isnt about the money, with its cash shop and a rough estimate of FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARIDOOS WORTH OF PAID ITEMS IN IT. Dont forget to preorder your weird and creepy yshtola sexdoll

[Onikaroshi]

"MMO second" is also the reason PvP is not a core feature. FF14 is adamant about cooperative play and demands your presence in multiple dungeons etc. as part of main story questline; unless you purchase a boost from the shop you cannot advance into next expansion without said dungeons solved.

to be honest: most players in FF14 give a moogle's butt about PvP by now.

pvp isn't HORRIBLE it's just... different, but pvp in any game is not my cup of tea. They do have one thing up on wow though, gear and level don't matter.

[Aggressive]

I still enjoy both games honestly, just quit wow for now because SL content is taking too long to come out and they're not really providing anything in .5 patches like they usually do. They're struggling over there more than any other dev.

I am going to sit back enjoy Eorzea. but come next year when they release a new expansion I am not buying or reserving it. I will just watch and see how they take feedback and what the game all has and keep a close eye on people's comments and posts about it. Not falling into another trap with shit at the bottom like Boringlands did.

[Redroniksre]

I am going to sit back enjoy Eorzea. but come next year when they release a new expansion I am not buying or reserving it. I will just watch and see how they take feedback and what the game all has and keep a close eye on people's comments and posts about it. Not falling into another trap with shit at the bottom like Boringlands did.

Same boat for me as well. I am hoping they take a look at FFXIV and their implementation of side content and do something similar. When you are not big into raiding the game tends to run out of things to do very fast.

[Onikaroshi]

Same boat for me as well. I am hoping they take a look at FFXIV and their implementation of side content and do something similar. When you are not big into raiding the game tends to run out of things to do very fast.

Side content can be a plus, I just wouldn't want it to cut into raiding honestly.

FF is already a game that values different things than WoW, it cuts hardcore content first.

[Aggressive]

Side content can be a plus, I just wouldn't want it to cut into raiding honestly.

FF is already a game that values different things than WoW, it cuts hardcore content first.

My issue with Blizzard is that they ALWAYS try to shove you into raiding and mythic raiding for gear. I don't always want to raid. So it would be nice if you can get the gear from raids and side content as well like FF.

[Onikaroshi]

My issue with Blizzard is that they ALWAYS try to shove you into raiding and mythic raiding for gear. I don't always want to raid. So it would be nice if you can get the gear from raids and side content as well like FF.

It just needs to be closer in ilvl maybe. You're usually around like 5-10 ilvl behind if you don't savage raid which isn't bad. In wow if you don't raid you're what... 40+?

[Tojara]

I'm seriously looking for people to list times outside of Shadowlands where Blizzard actively delayed something that they already had an announced release date (this part is important, because a delay in your mind without a patch date or release date isn't an actual date). You can say all you want that it's happened and to trust you but that doesn't really make the statement true.

The amount of white knighting is a bit hilarious to read, and I feel sorry for those that took PTO to play FF14. It doesn't matter if Yoshi P looked sad and apologetic, it doesn't really change anything for some of these people. Whether or not Ion or people at Blizzard look apologetic or not when they delayed Shadowlands has like nothing to do with FF14s delay, nor should you excuse it. They're just appealing to your emotions, and if you for one moment think they don't care about the bottom line, well, an extensive cash shop should tell you otherwise. This isn't me really digging at Yoshi P or other devs at FF14 though, I'm sure they're wonderful people, but at the end of the day they still need to make money.

All that said, I personally don't care about the delay and thought it was a meme when I heard people talking about it yesterday. To each their own, but I don't think taking time off for an MMO (especially FF14 which is so story driven) is smart to begin with, but again, that's just me. I feel bad for those that took time off and that's about it, but at the end of the day this doesn't really change my perspective on the team that handles FF14, just like it didn't really change how I viewed WoW when they delayed it. It sucks, but I have plenty of games or other things to do and I'll just play Endwalker 2 weeks later.

It just needs to be closer in ilvl maybe. You're usually around like 5-10 ilvl behind if you don't savage raid which isn't bad. In wow if you don't raid you're what... 40+?

This is sort of a gross exaggeration.

Honor Points - 216 (229 PvP)
Conquest Points - 220 to 249 (233 to 259 PvP, 220 gear is from unranked BTW)
Mythic dungeons - 210
Tazavesh - 226 to 233
Mythic+ end of dungeon loot - 213 - 236
Mythic+ vault - 226-252
Valor points - 246 (based on M+ achievement)
LFR - 213
Korthia - 233
Crafting writ - 230 (can only have 1)
Legendary Items - 262
BoE epics - 213 to 252

Normal to Mythic raiding - 226 to 259 (granted the last two bosses only drop a few items for each class)

So yeah, every option I listed aside from LFR are ways you can get loot in WoW that doesn't require raiding. This doesn't include world boss loot or the caches you can get every couple weeks for doing time walking. If you don't touch M+ dungeons and solely did Korthia, world bosses, and you did Tazavesh you would have around a ~233 iLvL in time, which is realistically 19 iLvL below a mythic raider because it's impossible to be kitted out in 259 gear anyway like I mentioned. That's hardly 40+.

I've played both games and they both have massive catch up mechanics and essentially erase gear every big patch. Crafting in FF14 is a lot stronger, but it's mostly just a baseline gear and gets shifted up with every patch the game goes through. It's normally only BiS in cases where the vendor gear doesn't have optimal stats, and that's normally for jobs that actually care about that stuff (usually through penta melding).

You're gated in FF14 by tomes that have a pretty low cap until the final patch where they double it so people can catch up. I think it's 450 and then moves up to 900 at the end. If you can savage raid in FF14 you have a pretty big leg up over the rest and actually have the opportunity to buy gear for other jobs, otherwise you have to cap that currency every week for upwards of 12 weeks (+/- 2 weeks, I forget) to get your BiS (and the upgraded tome gear isn't always your BiS) for just that singular job.

FF14 does loot differently, and I slightly prefer it, but that's mostly because of design decisions in WoW that I don't like. If WoW focused more on crafting like it did in Vanilla/TBC (not anything beyond), and less on BoE epics then both would be pretty similar to me, but unfortunately this isn't the case.

But a 40+ gap doesn't really exist unless you're essentially not playing the game at all. If I play FF14 and don't engage in dungeons, crafting or buying BoE crafted gear on the AH, my iLvL is going to be pretty shit as well because I'm effectively not playing the game at all.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Anyone bored enough that they're willing to powerlevel me so I can level my BLU ? I never made friends in-game since I don't play much and my FC is deadish. I'm on Siren realm and Aether Datacenter. I can return the favor somehow.

[Cthulhu 2020]

One of my biggest pet peeves as soon as I started FF14 was that I just couldn't make the type of character I often enjoy playing in RPGs; big, burly, bearded barbarian types. Most any single-player RPG with customization lets me do that, SWTOR let me do that, Warhammer Online obviously has many flavors of it, in WoW Orcs fit it and then some, but in FF the closest I could get is some inbred redneck-looking Highlander with a terrible, terrible beard. Hardly endeared me to the artstyle from the get-go It feels like the game's CC assumes you're going to be creating a typical pretty boy/lady or cat girl, and only begrudgingly adds options otherwise.


As for the delay, the tears don't move me (albeit the pic linked in this thread is pure cuteness) but their reasoning is sound. Better to delay the launch than have it be a disaster. In the light of the game becoming more popular, it doesn't sound like a bad move, even if the short notice isn't ideal.

You seem to have missed the Roegadyn.

[Onikaroshi]

You seem to have missed the Roegadyn.

They look like someone hit them with a cast iron skillet >.>

[Jastall]

You seem to have missed the Roegadyn.

The big ones with weird ass proportions, very meh beards and that either have overly fair features or look like someone stapled a pug's face upon theirs? They were more like lamer males Draenei to me, not my cup of my tea either.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm seriously looking for people to list times outside of Shadowlands where Blizzard actively delayed something that already had an announced release date (this part is important, because a delay in your mind without a patch date or release date isn't an actual date).

Sure, with all of those modifiers, that it has to be something that already had a release date and was delayed that wasn't shadowlands... I mean boy, it's not like SHADOWLANDS got delayed far longer than it should have. And then there were all those expansions that Blizzard said would be releasing summer 20XX but then they had to push it back to Fall.

And then there's every single expansion having servers constantly crashing, instance servers just not working for the first week so you couldn't run dungeons, quests just being broken because too many players existed in one area. I can't count the number of major issues each WoW launch has had.

The reason I'm willing to give SE a pass on the delay, as much as I am not happy about it, is that SE has consistently delivered bug free and smooth expansion launches for its run time. The one memorable issue was when instance servers got fucked at the start of Stormblood, but that got fixed in a matter of hours - like 8 hours, whereas Blizzard servers can often be fucked for 1-2 weeks, and when pressed as to why they aren't doing anything, Blizz goes "Oh man if we got more infrastructure to make the game launch smoother, we'd end up not using that additional infrastructure when less people are playing so uh, why bother?"

Meanwhile Yoshi P told us that they were securing lots of extra server infrastructure to ensure that the Endwalker launch is as smooth as possible with all the new players joining. A company going the extra mile to ensure a smooth experience? Damn, that's like... after years of being treated like shit by Blizzard, because they knew all of their players were too addicted to quit, that's a good feeling to finally feel like it's gamers and developers appreciating each other, rather than gamers vs developers.

That's not white knighting. That's appreciating a flat out better company that respects its players.

[Onikaroshi]

Sure, with all of those modifiers, that it has to be something that already had a release date and was delayed that wasn't shadowlands... I mean boy, it's not like SHADOWLANDS got delayed far longer than it should have. And then there were all those expansions that Blizzard said would be releasing summer 20XX but then they had to push it back to Fall.

And then there's every single expansion having servers constantly crashing, instance servers just not working for the first week so you couldn't run dungeons, quests just being broken because too many players existed in one area. I can't count the number of major issues each WoW launch has had.

The reason I'm willing to give SE a pass on the delay, as much as I am not happy about it, is that SE has consistently delivered bug free and smooth expansion launches for its run time. The one memorable issue was when instance servers got fucked at the start of Stormblood, but that got fixed in a matter of hours - like 8 hours, whereas Blizzard servers can often be fucked for 1-2 weeks, and when pressed as to why they aren't doing anything, Blizz goes "Oh man if we got more infrastructure to make the game launch smoother, we'd end up not using that additional infrastructure when less people are playing so uh, why bother?"

Meanwhile Yoshi P told us that they were securing lots of extra server infrastructure to ensure that the Endwalker launch is as smooth as possible with all the new players joining. A company going the extra mile to ensure a smooth experience? Damn, that's like... after years of being treated like shit by Blizzard, because they knew all of their players were too addicted to quit, that's a good feeling to finally feel like it's gamers and developers appreciating each other, rather than gamers vs developers.

That's not white knighting. That's appreciating a flat out better company that respects its players.

Servers also melted for Heavensward.

Honestly haven't had server issues with WoW since WoD, aside from the delay on SL Legion, BfA, and SL have all been super smooth for me, add to that MoP and cata before wod.

I get that's not everyone's experience, but I can only give mine.

For FF, Heavensward and SB launch were messy, ShB was smooth as butter.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The big ones with weird ass proportions, very meh beards and that either have overly fair features or look like someone stapled a pug's face upon theirs? They were more like lamer males Draenei to me, not my cup of my tea either.

You were talking bearded and burly, which Roegadyn are. Yes, FF has no truly barbaric looking races that are hunched over like orcs. All of the FF races are distinctly more human than most fantasy games, rather than going for exotic elves, aliens, etc.

If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine. I just get really confused when someone says they can't find the burly bearded muscle bound race when both highlanders and roegadyn exist to fill that niche, but then it's like... "They're not exactly what I want" and I'm just like... ok.



For all these people nit picking issues about the game, character customization or graphics or whatever... I think it's all rather pointless. FFXIV is largely about the entire experience. I can't imagine having 4 face options instead of 6 would ruin a game for someone, but in this very thread we have someone claiming just that. If that kind of thing can turn someone away, I get the feeling they downloaded the game already knowing they wouldn't like it, and only begrudgingly did so because a bunch of friends have already swapped.

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Servers also melted for Heavensward.

Honestly haven't had server issues with WoW since WoD, aside from the delay on SL Legion, BfA, and SL have all been super smooth for me, add to that MoP and cata before wod.

I get that's not everyone's experience, but I can only give mine.

For FF, Heavensward and SB launch were messy, ShB was smooth as butter.

I've heard BFA and SL were fairly smooth, but I haven't played WoW since Legion other than to log in sometimes to check things out, then log out when I realize the only thing awaiting me is leveling and dungeons/raids. Can't say I remember any HW launch issues other than the lag we experienced for the first 4 hours, but that was more inconvenient than game breaking. Like I remember dark knights running around ishgard foundation spamming unleash and they'd just teleport lag everywhere. Good times.

[Onikaroshi]

I've heard BFA and SL were fairly smooth, but I haven't played WoW since Legion other than to log in sometimes to check things out, then log out when I realize the only thing awaiting me is leveling and dungeons/raids. Can't say I remember any HW launch issues other than the lag we experienced for the first 4 hours, but that was more inconvenient than game breaking. Like I remember dark knights running around ishgard foundation spamming unleash and they'd just teleport lag everywhere. Good times.

Did you play Heavensward at early access or launch launch? that might make the difference. During EA there were long queues and server crashes back to long queues.

HW was ps4 release and they weren't ready lol.

[Jastall]

You were talking bearded and burly, which Roegadyn are. Yes, FF has no truly barbaric looking races that are hunched over like orcs. All of the FF races are distinctly more human than most fantasy games, rather than going for exotic elves, aliens, etc.

If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine. I just get really confused when someone says they can't find the burly bearded muscle bound race when both highlanders and roegadyn exist to fill that niche, but then it's like... "They're not exactly what I want" and I'm just like... ok.



For all these people nit picking issues about the game, character customization or graphics or whatever... I think it's all rather pointless. FFXIV is largely about the entire experience. I can't imagine having 4 face options instead of 6 would ruin a game for someone, but in this very thread we have someone claiming just that. If that kind of thing can turn someone away, I get the feeling they downloaded the game already knowing they wouldn't like it, and only begrudgingly did so because a bunch of friends have already swapped.

- - - Updated - - -



I've heard BFA and SL were fairly smooth, but I haven't played WoW since Legion other than to log in sometimes to check things out, then log out when I realize the only thing awaiting me is leveling and dungeons/raids. Can't say I remember any HW launch issues other than the lag we experienced for the first 4 hours, but that was more inconvenient than game breaking. Like I remember dark knights running around ishgard foundation spamming unleash and they'd just teleport lag everywhere. Good times.

I gave reasons as to why I didn't like them and they didn't fit what I looked for. If they're not good enough for you, well, such is life. I also don't just like hunched Orcs in WoW (nevermind that my main is standing straight), but undead, both variants of trolls, dwarves, Worgen, and Tauren as well. There's not only more variety and distinction in between them but I feel the models have tons more character. FF14 felt like a choice of humans, small stretched humans, big stretched humans, and cat girls all around. Not judging, it's what it is and obviously lots of people like it so they're hardly wrong to present those choices. But I didn't find a single race that made me want to play as them.

[NineSpine]

I'm seriously looking for people to list times outside of Shadowlands where Blizzard actively delayed something that they already had an announced release date (this part is important, because a delay in your mind without a patch date or release date isn't an actual date). You can say all you want that it's happened and to trust you but that doesn't really make the statement true.

The amount of white knighting is a bit hilarious to read, and I feel sorry for those that took PTO to play FF14. It doesn't matter if Yoshi P looked sad and apologetic, it doesn't really change anything for some of these people. Whether or not Ion or people at Blizzard look apologetic or not when they delayed Shadowlands has like nothing to do with FF14s delay, nor should you excuse it. They're just appealing to your emotions, and if you for one moment think they don't care about the bottom line, well, an extensive cash shop should tell you otherwise. This isn't me really digging at Yoshi P or other devs at FF14 though, I'm sure they're wonderful people, but at the end of the day they still need to make money.

All that said, I personally don't care about the delay and thought it was a meme when I heard people talking about it yesterday. To each their own, but I don't think taking time off for an MMO (especially FF14 which is so story driven) is smart to begin with, but again, that's just me. I feel bad for those that took time off and that's about it, but at the end of the day this doesn't really change my perspective on the team that handles FF14, just like it didn't really change how I viewed WoW when they delayed it. It sucks, but I have plenty of games or other things to do and I'll just play Endwalker 2 weeks later.



This is sort of a gross exaggeration.

Honor Points - 216 (229 PvP)
Conquest Points - 220 to 249 (233 to 259 PvP, 220 gear is from unranked BTW)
Mythic dungeons - 210
Tazavesh - 226 to 233
Mythic+ end of dungeon loot - 213 - 236
Mythic+ vault - 226-252
Valor points - 246 (based on M+ achievement)
LFR - 213
Korthia - 233
Crafting writ - 230 (can only have 1)
Legendary Items - 262
BoE epics - 213 to 252

Normal to Mythic raiding - 226 to 259 (granted the last two bosses only drop a few items for each class)

So yeah, every option I listed aside from LFR are ways you can get loot in WoW that doesn't require raiding. This doesn't include world boss loot or the caches you can get every couple weeks for doing time walking. If you don't touch M+ dungeons and solely did Korthia, world bosses, and you did Tazavesh you would have around a ~233 iLvL in time, which is realistically 19 iLvL below a mythic raider because it's impossible to be kitted out in 259 gear anyway like I mentioned. That's hardly 40+.

I've played both games and they both have massive catch up mechanics and essentially erase gear every big patch. Crafting in FF14 is a lot stronger, but it's mostly just a baseline gear and gets shifted up with every patch the game goes through. It's normally only BiS in cases where the vendor gear doesn't have optimal stats, and that's normally for jobs that actually care about that stuff (usually through penta melding).

You're gated in FF14 by tomes that have a pretty low cap until the final patch where they double it so people can catch up. I think it's 450 and then moves up to 900 at the end. If you can savage raid in FF14 you have a pretty big leg up over the rest and actually have the opportunity to buy gear for other jobs, otherwise you have to cap that currency every week for upwards of 12 weeks (+/- 2 weeks, I forget) to get your BiS (and the upgraded tome gear isn't always your BiS) for just that singular job.

FF14 does loot differently, and I slightly prefer it, but that's mostly because of design decisions in WoW that I don't like. If WoW focused more on crafting like it did in Vanilla/TBC (not anything beyond), and less on BoE epics then both would be pretty similar to me, but unfortunately this isn't the case.

But a 40+ gap doesn't really exist unless you're essentially not playing the game at all. If I play FF14 and don't engage in dungeons, crafting or buying BoE crafted gear on the AH, my iLvL is going to be pretty shit as well because I'm effectively not playing the game at all.

You took a lot of time to post numbers that show that you are wrong he was right. If you don't want to do hard or group-coordinated engame content, you max out around 210-220.... which is 40-49 points below BiS.

You've made the criteria for what a "delay" is so comically specific as to be worthless. You want to ignore all of the seasonal or quarterly release times wow has given not count because it wasn't a specific day.