[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Aggressive]

I can’t discuss anything with anyone that intentionally misses the point. If you think people are getting kicked out of groups from too low skill speed in ff14 or having the wrong materia, you are absolutely delusional.

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For the eighth time. “How to play” and “how to make the right meta choices” aren’t the same thing.

I have no clue WTF you talking about as far as kicking people from groups. I don't care about that shit. My point was about google having guides on line. So the only one that is delusional in this post is you. Not sure how the fuck you just come up with assumptions on someone's post.

[Katchii]

It's more the principle of it, I'm sick of these short delay announcements, the only thing I have to protest them is my wallet.

They're doing it for good reasons. I completely understand the frustration with it being so late, and that it sucks and should have been made and announced sooner because there's no way in hell they didn't know this stuff sooner, but I don't disagree with their reasoning.

Difference is leveling in wow can be done fully in 10 hours. 10 hours into FF you might not even be 50.

Doesn't change the fact that in WoW some classes at max level have just as many, if not fewer abilities as FFXIV classes have during the leveling range.

The argument was about number of abilities or how much the game play of the class changes over a number of levels. The same problem exists in WoW.

[Onikaroshi]

They're doing it for good reasons. I completely understand the frustration with it being so late, and that it sucks and should have been made and announced sooner because there's no way in hell they didn't know this stuff sooner, but I don't disagree with their reasoning.



Doesn't change the fact that in WoW some classes at max level have just as many, if not fewer abilities as FFXIV classes have during the leveling range.

The argument was about number of abilities or how much the game play of the class changes over a number of levels. The same problem exists in WoW.

TBF, number of abilities really has nothing to do with fun rotations. GW2 does pretty well with like 5-7

FF has a of bloat honestly, the combos could be combined into one button (i actually do that with plugins)

[Tenjen]

Imagine having so little self awareness and sense of irony.

Not when the shoe fits you so well. With how you've been downplaying things not in your favor and being so heavy handed over minor matters. you most definately have a spiteful agenda.

The both of you have just been one shallow point after another, dancing around counters you cant dismiss or making statements shot down months ago by major ex wow streamers and top tier wow raiders alike.

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I mean, if you're ok with 2 week delay announcements that's fine, but I'm not going to give money to something I don't agree with.

Given the context, along with the other arguements this sounds so petty its clearly disengenuous at best and selfish at worst.

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TBF, number of abilities really has nothing to do with fun rotations. GW2 does pretty well with like 5-7

if number of abilities has nothing to do with fun rotations, then having a lot of them or few of them is equally irrelevant. its the execution which matters and FF abilities flow and weave very well into each other. Those which havent on the level of others, like SMN (or MCH in the past), get changed in time.

[Onikaroshi]

if number of abilities has nothing to do with fun rotations, then having a lot of them or few of them is equally irrelevant. its the execution which matters and FF abilities flow and weave very well into each other. Those which havent on the level of others, like SMN (or MCH in the past), get changed in time.

but you don't get that flow until much later, after many hours

they're slowly making early leveling less.... boring, but it's still got a long way to go.

[Aucald]

Let's drop the game vs. game infighting (e.g. WoW vs. FFXIV) and focus instead of FFXIV specifically.

[Thestrawman]

but you don't get that flow until much later, after many hours

they're slowly making early leveling less.... boring, but it's still got a long way to go.

I thought you quit. Why are you still here?

[Onikaroshi]

I thought you quit. Why are you still here?

Still can discuss the game

[Onikaroshi]

I love XIV to death, but come on.. you're being a little delusional with this. XIV has dedicated end game raiding, just like WoW does, and the underbelly of the raiding scene can get; at times, just as abusive as WoWs. It may not be as wide spread and in smaller pockets, but it's there. The difference is you don't hear about it as frequently because XIV's player base doesn't flock around forums to the extent that WoWs does.

And hours in game prove nothing, it's the experience of the individual/s that matters. Point being I nearly have 10k hours invested (401 days last I checked) and I've never been harassed, therefore harassment doesn't exist? No, of course it does, it's just not my experience nor yours.

He strikes me as an enabler.

You know the type, join a dungeon and you get a no dps/no card AST and you ask them about it and he's that guy who's like "it's a game, let them play for fun!"

[Thestrawman]

Still can discuss the game

Yeah I know. Just like you'll be discussing the game a month from now and how Endwalker doesn't look any better with the delay. Just like I know that little tantrum you had yesterday was all for show.

[Onikaroshi]

Yeah I know. Just like you'll be discussing the game a month from now and how Endwalker doesn't look any better with the delay. Just like I know that little tantrum you had yesterday was all for show.

Nah, I have canceled my preorder.

[Thestrawman]

Nah, I have canceled my preorder.

I'm sure you have. See you in a month.

[|Dexter|]

Square Enix says that its net sales for MMO games increased 32.5% YoY, due to sharp growth in the number of monthly paying subscribers for Final Fantasy XIV.

[Cringecaller]

I actually like that FFXIV doesn't have that much combat. It feels like most RPGs shoehorn in random battles because they want to spruce up the game with gameplay, but they can't imagine having gameplay outside of battles. I really liked how the final gameplay section of the Banner Saga trilogy wasn't a boss battle, but a negotiation.

GW2 had really fun non-combat gameplay sections, like that quest in one of the Norn maps where you build an army of snowmen that look like an actual army from a distance to scare off invaders. Or that cowtapult quest where you help this crazy Charr engineer fling cows using a catapult. Or the one with the RC cars. Or playing with your baby dragon and raising her. The first chapter of the Icebrood Saga was just you participating in a festival. I sorta wish FFXIV could borrow from that.

This would be a breathe of fresh air because disguised grinding or lame combat in general is so often used as filler busywork ( raptor heads, zevhra hoofs, strider beaks etc), reminds me of some things said by josh strife hayes while doing the Otherland videos.
Relying too much on combat was a problem with Skyrim too, and the underlying way they made the game, it doesn't even seem like it's that easy to solve with modding; the gameplay for stealth just becomes an alternative way to slaughter the bandit camp (and usually with 0 risk lol). Speech is almost literally pointless, illusion is combat focused and is a set of binary IWIN buttons. Build diversity is pretty limited to different coloured bandit slaughterers.

Then again the mental image conjured by "Warcraft" is of a swole green ape brawling with a swole human dude with a handlebar mo'... You know, like the WC3: RoC intro. So it's hardly surprising that combat is your main activity.

Again....really? As if that's not the case in XIV - or any MMO?

Come on with this nonsense.

This is a legit question, because I saw something similar said in another thread regarding FF14:

Is the FF14 playerbase/culture anywhere near as meta-obsessed as in WoW?

I really want to give Ashes of Creation a go when it comes around, but I wont bother if it will unavoidably have a culture/playerbase as woeful as Wow, because "that's just how MMOs are these days".

[Radaney]

Is the FF14 playerbase/culture anywhere near as meta-obsessed as in WoW?

Nope because the game is actually balanced and typically jobs have slightly different niche's so they're all impactful.

The only constraints are you want at least one of each dps role being Phys Ranged, Caster, Melee and one of each healer which is Regen or Shield healer. What the actual job is in those roles is irrelevant.

[Thestrawman]

This is a legit question, because I saw something similar said in another thread regarding FF14:

Is the FF14 playerbase/culture anywhere near as meta-obsessed as in WoW?

I really want to give Ashes of Creation a go when it comes around, but I wont bother if it will unavoidably have a culture/playerbase as woeful as Wow, because "that's just how MMOs are these days".

Simple answer: No.

Longer answer: Any class can perform well in any level of content without being a hindrance. There are some norms that happen in the higher end progress raiding. Like bringing a red mage for the extra raises. But it's not required.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Is the FF14 playerbase/culture anywhere near as meta-obsessed as in WoW?

No. The game is very easy. You can complete almost all of the content being asleep at the wheel and only doing half of your rotations. If you're doing the latest raid tier on savage (which is optional and not the end-all-be-all like in WoW) then you need be at least competent (but not the bestest ever) but you won't be kicked based off of which job you play or anything.

[Swnem]

Square Enix says that its net sales for MMO games increased 32.5% YoY, due to sharp growth in the number of monthly paying subscribers for Final Fantasy XIV.

I was told it was a fad and people already left in these forums. XD

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No. The game is very easy. You can complete almost all of the content being asleep at the wheel and only doing half of your rotations. If you're doing the latest raid tier on savage (which is optional and not the end-all-be-all like in WoW) then you need be at least competent (but not the bestest ever) but you won't be kicked based off of which job you play or anything.

I think you are exagerating. There are so many one shot mechanics. It's not that it's easy. It's that you can be carried. No one likes dying to every mechanic and it screws up your rotation.
I actually think FF is harder, but it's readibility is clearer. Often you die in WoW having no idea what happened cause mobs/bosses have so many abilities with no readibility (buffs/debuffs). In FF you usually know right away what you did wrong. That makes it easier to learn.

[Caerrona]

I was told it was a fad and people already left in these forums. XD

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I think you are exagerating. There are so many one shot mechanics. It's not that it's easy. It's that you can be carried. No one likes dying to every mechanic and it screws up your rotation.
I actually think FF is harder, but it's readibility is clearer. Often you die in WoW having no idea what happened cause mobs/bosses have so many abilities with no readibility (buffs/debuffs). In FF you usually know right away what you did wrong. That makes it easier to learn.

FF14 is harder AND I don't know what I died to in wow fuckin top kek my guy....

That just proves that other guys point... you don't need to pay attention in FF

[Cringecaller]

Simple answer: No.

Longer answer: Any class can perform well in any level of content without being a hindrance. There are some norms that happen in the higher end progress raiding. Like bringing a red mage for the extra raises. But it's not required.

No. The game is very easy. You can complete almost all of the content being asleep at the wheel and only doing half of your rotations. If you're doing the latest raid tier on savage (which is optional and not the end-all-be-all like in WoW) then you need be at least competent (but not the bestest ever) but you won't be kicked based off of which job you play or anything.

Ok it feels like the subtext here is that the difficulty drives this culture but I'm not so sure about that e.g. would anyone call WoW classic hard?

You know, I probably didn't communicate what I meant about the culture, because I conflate the meta-slavery with the other stuff I don't like, which is probably better described by calling it "transactionality" or describing the interactions with other players being very... inhuman. A massive proportion of interactions I had with other players in WoW Classic could have been bots and I'd hardly have noticed.

I'm quoting myself from another thread because it might be a bit more elucidating. P.S. sorry for wall of text :P, oh and sorry to the mods that this is so tangential to the thread title XD.

I really can't get behind this idea that Classic is entirely about nostalgia, or that Classic 'failed' because it's inherently a bad game or w/e.

I'm not 100% on forum rules so I'll try to be vague and not advertise anything naughty, but I played a private server before classic launched. Or more accurately I played a poor quality private server for a little bit and later restarted on another. I no-lifed on that server from the day it launched for months and only took a real break(pun) when I broke my left arm some time during AQ. I stopped playing very much a bit after Naxx launched partly because of IRL, partly because my guild at that stage couldn't be arsed with Naxx, but also because I was considering starting again on a fresh server, then Classic was announced so I didn't bother. Honestly I felt a little guilty playing on a private server, especially if Blizz was going to offer a legit option.

Anyway the point is playing on that server was some of the best gaming I've had. I genuinely had a few friends from all over the world and we'd say "hey man how's it going" when they logged on even if you didn't want anything out of them. I was acquainted with a few of the "Big Men on Campus", even if I wasn't one of them. There was maybe 2 pinnacle guilds on either faction, and then a pretty wide tier of serious but not maniacal guilds below them, and you generally knew who they were. People would heal or tank your Scholo just for the sake of it; This other pally and I teamed up for a week or two and ran Scholo day-in-day-out trying to finish that tanking set, and whoever wasn't specced prot that run would pass on the roll. We were pals until he got conscripted (apparently). World PvP actually happened organically, and sometimes you'd even get the "lets camp Splinter Tree for a bit, see who turns up". I think the only real problem I had was 300-350 base ping. There were some bots, but mainly for leveling I think. Ratio was maybe 53H/47A.

Classic was totally different. The first week or so was pretty spectacular, but it became obvious after a while, and when the herd thinned quite a bit, that people behaved very differently. It was really common to have someone invite me to group without saying a word while questing, farm the mobs silently, and drop group within seconds of that last mob dying. Sometimes they'd even realise they forgot something and wander back over and silently invite you again. The meta-slavery was off the charts, and never really reduced before I quick. Some people wouldn't add you to RFC/VC because of your class.
Phase 2 or whenever PvP launched as Alliance was ridiculous. Lots of people quit within days. I weathered it for a while but you'd get instagibbed at chillwind. Ok try SS, nope camped as well. Menethil had been camped since forever, especially the boats. So many of us didn't log again until BGs came out, at which point World PvP effectively went extinct. That then lead into the whole cluster around AV, min/maxing honor, "AV pre-mades" blah blah blah. One of the few memorable occurences was teaming up with a couple other hunters trying to do the Silithus Rhok'delar demon (without exploits. Shocker, I know), which morphed into an ongoing battle against about 5 farming horde for a while. That netted me an invite to their B-tier guild, but it quickly became apparent you had to do the whole raidlogging raidbuff thing, so I quit a day or two later. I'd read people saying that you should seek out other casuals if you want to play casual; "no one's stopping you", but by this point the chats were nothing but bots/gdkp/gold sellers and endless god damn boosters. How is it even worth your time to sell a stocks boost for like 50 silver? I distinctly remember hopping on my mid-level alt in SW and it was so bleak: impossible to get a legit dungeon run because chat is booster spam, and the image of a sea of human fury warriors and aoe-farming mage alts in front of the bank. It might have been a few weeks after BWL that I quit Classic outright. The one major upside of Classic was having 30ms ping.

TL;DR - My contention is that the main problem with Classic was the community, as my experience on a Vanilla private server was amazing and might have been the peak gaming experience of my life had I had local latency. Classic was like pulling teeth from almost start to finish. I could give you at least 10 names from the private server that I remember, and maybe another 40 distinct descriptions. I just spent way too long trying to remember the name "Timecop".

...Hell, I can even remember at least one name from retail Vanilla: a Troll mage I met in Tarren Mill called Getafix, which lead to us spending half an hour talking about Asterix. Or the UD Warlock called "Waerloga" that we chewed out because he came to MC in Robes of Arugal. We christened him "water logger" and implied we needed to flush the toilet to get rid of him. But he got his revenge by gquitting, and when they made pvp gear buyable with honor points pre-tbc launch, he grinded BGs like a machine and put all us 15yo to shame with his purps.
I don't remember a single name or even description from Classic, except 1 hunter I did the Silithus demon with had Ashjre'thul. After I joined that guys guild, someone else told me they were a dad from Perth.

That's it.

So yeah, tying it back to FF, I've mostly been lead to believe FF14's culture isn't as dehumanising(I really don't know a good way to describe this) as the one I experienced in Classic. Which hopefully means Ashes has a chance of having a good culture too.