Does anyone think that Blizzard can actually change the game so that people like it?

[Kageaki]

I was merely replying to your ignorant comments regarding these metrics

Nah, you're the ignorant one. Sub numbers have no meaning whatsoever, revenue is king. And WoW is doing financially better than ever before, cope some more

[Kokolums]

look, blizzard is like sears. they are going to stay locked into developing an antisocial game all the way to the bitter end, just like sears stayed locked into a bad business model all the way to the bitter end. social play is the fix and they will never ever do it.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok first of all you posted a Bellular video, that's like posting an anti-vaxx video on a pro-vaxx forums. Not going to even touch the comment section as it's full of r/Asmongold tier of commenting. But I'll let that slide

Why does it surprise you that they count 2 games as 2 MAUs? They still have to create accounts in those games like they always had to. You sound surprised. As if this is a huge revealation or something. Stop acting like it's a conspiracy by blizzard to "fake numbers" (LOL). Albeit made by the same company, they're still two different games. Please tell us why wouldn't they count as two different MAUs? Besides it doesn't make a difference for WoW statistics. It's not like it's going to increase WoW's MAU by having a HS promotion. It's going to increase HS MAU and that's it. The people who want the rat mount are likely already playing and subbed to WoW. Besides they've been having these cross game promotions since forever.

The only people surprised by this are people like Bellular who make a living off internet outrage, and even he's not dumb enough to believe this that this has any value. Sadly can't say the same about his followers.

stop attacking people jesus h christ. you attacked me, asmongold, bellular, entire comment sections, blah blah. that was unreadable and hypertoxic. post your view and let it stand on its own merits.

[BeepBoo]

look, blizzard is like sears. they are going to stay locked into developing an antisocial game all the way to the bitter end, just like sears stayed locked into a bad business model all the way to the bitter end. social play is the fix and they will never ever do it.

Right, but what do you mean "social play"?

Do they not have raids? Do they not have guilds? People are as free as ever to be social in the exact ways you're talking. If people WANTED to do that, the introduction of systems that circumvent those aspects wouldn't have been successful. What, specifically, are you asking them to do to the game?

Example: "remove LFR/matchmade/crossrealm"

Now... your turn?

[Kageaki]

look, blizzard is like sears. they are going to stay locked into developing an antisocial game all the way to the bitter end, just like sears stayed locked into a bad business model all the way to the bitter end. social play is the fix and they will never ever do it.

- - - Updated - - -



stop attacking people jesus h christ. you attacked me, asmongold, bellular, entire comment sections, blah blah. that was unreadable and hypertoxic. post your view and let it stand on its own merits.

stop posting crap and the rest will follow

[Hotmail]

WoW has mostly been the same game for 17 years. Only the players change.

[Bladesyphon]

Yeah, stuff like this shows how out of touch they are with the playerbase. They forget the overwhelming majority are nerd teens/young adults that deslike this whole woke nonsense. They are dooming themselves with this stuff.

Look, I'm going to just come out and say it -

If removing things that objectify woman, stereotype races in derogatory ways, and removing emotes that can (and have) been used to harass other players (see: BC Classic) leads a bunch of people that "dislike woke nonsense" away from the game, that's a net positive in my book.

There's nothing "woke" about teaching people it's not okay to oogle, harass, or otherwise objectify attractive people, regardless of gender. Classifying them as "Nerd teens, young adults" does not give them a pass, and if they dislike the fact that it's being taken away from them, good. That's how it should be.

[crakerjack]

It's an impossible task IMO. The community is too segregated and opinions differ around every corner. In one corner you have players who don't want a challenge, but believe the best obtainable gear should be rewarded through non-challenging solo content. In another corner you have raid loggers who have no interest in tedious grinds outside of raids and believe that gear rewards should be correlated to the difficulty of the content. You have PvPers who just want to PvP without feeling forced to do ANY content outside of PvP. You have people who strictly hunt mounts, achievements and transmogs from past expansions and that's their primary source of entertainment. We're so divided and I don't think there's any way blizzard could cater to us all without stepping on the toes of others. Absolutely 100% impossible. It all depends on which direction Blizzard wants to go with the game. Do they want to continue prioritizing raiding? It's something they've done well for 17 years and is one of the few shining gems left in the game. Do they focus primarily on solo content and implementing more AP systems so that power is intertwined with consistently grinding?

It's an impossible task. I personally love raids and hate solo content, so I would suggest they make 2 raids every tier that involve mechanically heavy boss fights that require raid coordination. I'd say reduce the amount of trash in the raids so more time can be spent attempting/killing bosses so that guilds don't feel pressured to raid more than twice a week just to do all the content. I'd also remove all and any AP grinds so that people can do their content of choice without feeling like they have to cross over to other content. So pretty much I'd remove renown, make all types of content reward soul ash/cinders and add another raid.

[Ajko]

As an entity, they could turn it around, they need to fire or shuffle the majority of their devs, but if they really wanted to, they could make a good game again. They won't though, too many people shovel money into their coffers to actually change the game.
My only hopes now are they make enough small changes that spending time in game isn't a freaking nightmare like it is now.

I never understood why just developers are responsible for the state of a wow. They are just ... developers. They program what they are told. Can you explain to me why the developers are to blame?

[Marxman]

Do I think it's possible for WoW to make enough changes to be a game I consider worth my time and money again in the future? Yes, it's possible.

Do I think they can do that with this current leadership and design team? No, not a chance in hell. They've shown time and time again that they have no idea what they're doing, and are incapable of listening to or understanding player feedback. Ion and the gang have to go if this game is to be successful again.

[Exkrementor]

Can they? Maybe.

Will they? Absolutely fucking not.

This one 100%. Blizzard is their own worst enemy and that will probably not change.

[Ajko]

It's an impossible task IMO. The community is too segregated and opinions differ around every corner. In one corner you have players who don't want a challenge, but believe the best obtainable gear should be rewarded through non-challenging solo content. In another corner you have raid loggers who have no interest in tedious grinds outside of raids and believe that gear rewards should be correlated to the difficulty of the content. You have PvPers who just want to PvP without feeling forced to do ANY content outside of PvP. You have people who strictly hunt mounts, achievements and transmogs from past expansions and that's their primary source of entertainment. We're so divided and I don't think there's any way blizzard could cater to us all without stepping on the toes of others. Absolutely 100% impossible. It all depends on which direction Blizzard wants to go with the game. Do they want to continue prioritizing raiding? It's something they've done well for 17 years and is one of the few shining gems left in the game. Do they focus primarily on solo content and implementing more AP systems so that power is intertwined with consistently grinding?

It's an impossible task. I personally love raids and hate solo content, so I would suggest they make 2 raids every tier that involve mechanically heavy boss fights that require raid coordination. I'd say reduce the amount of trash in the raids so more time can be spent attempting/killing bosses so that guilds don't feel pressured to raid more than twice a week just to do all the content. I'd also remove all and any AP grinds so that people can do their content of choice without feeling like they have to cross over to other content. So pretty much I'd remove renown, make all types of content reward soul ash/cinders and add another raid.

What you write makes sense, but this topic has been addressed a million times and the community has responded to it perhaps even more times: to completely separate PVP and PVE, not to allow things to be shared between PVP and PVE, never, nowhere, in any way. Puff, problem solved. And no, some stat on item has never solved it. But the lazy blizzard still thought they could solve it without this variant ... And let's see where they ended up.

[Paperfox]

There's an old saying: You can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time.

I don't think it is impossible for Blizz to change WoW, I think a better question is: Is Blizz would be willing to make the investment (including potential temporary loss of profits)?

[LCDArcade]

some people DO like the game, some people dont
and that always was the case and always will be no matter what theyll do with it

I agree with you that some people do like the game now, but honestly I think we'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't acknowledge the fact that most of those people are probably new to the game and have no idea what's going on or all its flaws. I don't have any concrete evidence to support this, but I do feel like largely those who want to play WoW and have it be fun are OGs who have been playing for a long time.

Like if I was a new player and just found out about WoW, I would have no idea the game sucks unless my friends told me it did.

[OrangeJuice]

Don't get me wrong Blizzard is truly a fucking horrible company in so many ways BUT....

Say they remove borrowed power from the game and do all the stuff people say they want like removing grindier aspects and for example allowing pvp-ers to just pvp...

Won't people then say "there's nothing to do" or the "game isn't immersive" or some other bullshit. Or whatever some streamer says who got rich trashing the game he supposedly loves so much.

(not that Blizzard are likely to what people want anyway but that's a side issue)

Is there actually a universally agreed or mostly agreed pathway towards reforming the game?

I just get the impression that the dominant narrative at the moment is "whatever Blizzard do sucks" rather than any actual interest in improving the game.

Game has too much clutter. Its like a fridge stocked with too many ingredients but not enough pizza rolls. Sometimes you just want food now not make a meal every day. When I say theres nothing here to eat, its because I'm too lazy to cook. Same thing with WoW. Theres nothing to do because all I want to do is just login and PvP, but I can't. I have to prep the meal first. I have to grind rep for sockets and conduits, farm renown, run torghast, farm honor to upgrade gear, and rbgs to even buy the gear. Its too much shit that I don't want to do, but I have to do, if I want to do what I do want to do. Then in some crazy mood swing I have, I decide to actually go out and take care of all that, the season is over so I have to do it all again. Fuck that. Grinds are only half the issue anyways, theres still major class imbalance issues and boring class design which need a separate new thread to discuss.

On the other hand, I'm getting old man. I just don't care anymore. If the next gen of players are born into this type of shitty gaming, then it'll be all they know, so companies (Blizzard) 8can get away with making these shitty games from now on. We're just caught in the middle of a generational shift, and Blizzard is waiting for us to die out. Good games are a thing of the past. If Blizzard wanted to make a good game, they absolutely could. They're not incompetent they're just unwilling. Its more profitable to follow King's model than it is to follow their own. Plus, it would be Ion's call since hes the game director. If he makes that call and he's wrong, then he can kiss his job goodbye. Hes a heartless piece of shit so hes not going to risk it. I probably wouldn't either but hes still a heartless piece of shit.

Do yourself a favor and just stop playing WoW. Let go of that hope it will get better, cause man, its never gonna happen. This is modern WoW brought to you by Activision-Blizzard. The company is so shit, the actual people who started it have quit. Ask yourself, would you just give up your passion project that makes a billion dollars a year? Probably not. So imagine how fucked up things would have to be to make you quit, and then start up another one from scratch. If there was any hope left then they wouldn't have left.

[Log Cabin]

They're allowed because the team would riot if the execs refuse them to make any changes.

However, it's also super convenient for the execs because this naturally drives a wedge between players and the devs, as the players were naturally very sympathetic towards the devs initially after the news broke.
Losing the support of (some) customers may bite the devs in the ass in future, because if Activision ever decides to remove certain developers because of reasons that may be related to unionization, they could just easily spin in a different fashion - after all, public outcry might be the only thing stopping them from doing it.

Let's be real, if any of those devs who have vocally supported these changes (but also incidentally supported the call for unionization) on twitter would get fired tomorrow because of "reasons", you'd see quite a few players actually being happy about it.

It may or may be not intentional, but it still has the same effect as any divide and conquer strategy.

I think your confusing a loud minority for a majority. Don't get me wrong the banshees that would scream would get a lot of attention as it is the hip thing currently but they don't really have any tangible power.

[Lolites]

I agree with you that some people do like the game now, but honestly I think we'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't acknowledge the fact that most of those people are probably new to the game and have no idea what's going on or all its flaws. I don't have any concrete evidence to support this, but I do feel like largely those who want to play WoW and have it be fun are OGs who have been playing for a long time.

Like if I was a new player and just found out about WoW, I would have no idea the game sucks unless my friends told me it did.

im playing since march 2005, and honestly, i think most of those people who want the game as it was "back then, when it was good" are just blinded by nostalgia, classic showed it to some, others still dont see it, and its nothing unusual, i always find it amusing when people whine patch is empty and then praise wrath in the same breath, i loved wrath but hell back then patch was raid and few daily quests...

now im not gonna deny SL have flaws, but EVERY expansion did, and tbh my only actual BIG issue is timeframe (which i dont like ofc, but i understand it, knowing how fucked up all projects are at my work due to covid, and blizz had other shit to deal with too)

[Landrisser]

im playing since march 2005, and honestly, i think most of those people who want the game as it was "back then, when it was good" are just blinded by nostalgia, classic showed it to some, some still dont see it

now im not gonna deny SL have flaws, but EVERY expansion did, and tbh my only actual BIG issue is timeframe (which i dont like ofc, but i understand it, knowing how fucked up all projects are at my work due to covid, and blizz had other shit to deal with too)

On the flip side, you have been playing this game since 2005, through all of its low and you still remain subbed. Your opinion, and other people like you, is quite literally worthless because you have already admitted you will continue playing this game no matter what sort of garbage blizzard shits out.

[Merin]

Might be a bit off topic .. but I like that he only addressed that doing the emotes against non consenting adults is only affecting women feeling unsafe. Like it wouldn't be an issue if it was against men... Makes you think, hmm..

Anyone who has lived in CA in recent years can attest to people wearing causes as a deflection shield or a makeshift personality are the norm.

It's all an act either way, because nothing will ever be enforced. It's all just gross PR, either for their own feed or their company.

[Daedius]

Blizzard, as a company, I /spit at now. They have forever lost my respect, so don't matter what they do I won't ever touch a product of theirs again.

[Lolites]

On the flip side, you have been playing this game since 2005, through all of its low and you still remain subbed. Your opinion, and other people like you, is quite literally worthless because you have already admitted you will continue playing this game no matter what sort of garbage blizzard shits out.

riiiight, so best opinion on the game have people who HAVENT played it?
and when did i admit i will continue playing no matter what? i will not, i will continue playing - brace yourself this might shock you - as long as i ENJOY THE GAME
someone actualy might enjoy something you dont... i know it might be weird for people who think their opinion is "truth", but different people enjoy different things, thats how reality works