Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[cubby]

There's clear video showing Rosenbaum never grabbed the gun. He got maybe a couple feet away when he was shot.

His hand was potentially over the barrel when he was murdered. There’s no indication, aside from Rittenhouse’s claim, that he was grabbing the gun though.

Ah, excellent. I was really hoping this murdering racist wasn't going to get off. Glad to hear it.

[Endus]

It was my understanding that they had established Rosenbaum actually grabbed Rittenhouse's gun just prior to his firing. That combined with Rittenhouse's lies might build enough of a self-defense argument to get him off. But again, I'm not following the case nearly as closely as others.

Did you see any indication of the above? I'm really hoping the report just got it wrong.

In addition to what those above said, Rosenbaum specifically had powder burns on his hands, which wouldn't be possible if he had them on the barrel.

Regardless, it's pretty damned unreasonable to simultaneously argue "I can have a gun and I'm not a threat even if I point it at people" to "if he takes my gun he'll kill me and a bunch of other people so clearly even the possibility that he'll get a gun means I need to kill him now".

Those two positions are directly contradictory, and Rittenhouse doesn't have anything else to back up his claim of fear for his life. He may legitimately been afraid, but that means he's a panicky murderous moron who deserves conviction, not that he acted in self defense. It's right up there with "I had to murder my wife, your honor, she was a demon who was after my soul".

[Drutt]

There's clear video showing Rosenbaum never grabbed the gun. He got maybe a couple feet away when he was shot.

Given what you do for a living, what's your take on how things have been unfolding?

[eschatological]

Ah, excellent. I was really hoping this murdering racist wasn't going to get off. Glad to hear it.

Oh there's still a real good probability he's gonna get off. The judge literally asked for an expert on zooming in on a digital video because the defense argued that "Apple has algorithms to add pixels to images when you zoom in." And when the prosecution was like, "uh, okay, can we recess to go get one?" he was like, lol, nope.

Judge is a moron. It's why judges shouldn't be elected, and should instead be appointed....GOP would still appoint occasional idiots, but it wouldn't be down to dumbasses voting for dumbasses, and it'd require confirmation.

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Given what you do for a living, what's your take on how things have been unfolding?

Self-defense is a tough one. Like I think Endus has mentioned before, the prosecution doesn't have the burden of proof in this case. The defense does. If there's doubt that Rittenhouse was defending himself, it should be a guilty because the killings are admitted, and the self-defense is supposed to be an excuse for the killings. But juries often get confused because all they know is "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" so they might apply the wrong standard. It all depends on the jury instructions, which the judge basically decides which are relevant, and how diligent the jury is.

That being said, I was a defense attorney, and I was shocked when they put Rittenhouse on the stand. I've never put a defendant on the stand in a jury trial, and only in a trial by judge when I knew the judge and his/her tendancies. Juries, by their nature, hate defendants, and the slightest slip-up by a defendant is usually held hugely against them. Don't show enough emotion? The jury thinks you're a stone cold criminal. Show too much emotion? It strikes them as insincere. The average juror is an idiot, the prosecution has to hope they have some level heads. Rittenhouse did more than slip up, he looked like an idiot up there today who couldn't explain why he was there with an AR-15, or why a guy who never touched him was a deadly threat.

I'd say the chances are probably 30/40/30 not guilty by reason of self-defense/mistrial from hung jury/guilty. Pretty even. I'd say there'd have been no chance of a guilty verdict before they put Rittenhouse on the stand though, not because he's not guilty, but because the judge is a moron (specifically) and juries are morons (generally).

[Edge-]

The average juror is an idiot

I resemble that remark.

(I'm glad I haven't ever actually even been called in for jury duty)

[tehdang]

While we are focusing 100% on the Rittenhouse trial, and the shitshow and the bias that is going on there with the judge, it looks like the whole Ahmaud Arbery killer trial is going unnoticed.

From the police testimony, Ahmaud Arbery was "trapped like a rat", and the prosecutors basically destroyed the whole narrative that they were trying to do a citizen's arrest, or detain him, because Greg McMichael told officers they never tried to detain him or arrest him.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...defen-rcna5031
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/10/us/ah...y-4/index.html

So far, that trial seems to be more competent.

Ahmaud Arbery is what commentators wish the Kyle Rittenhouse trial was.

[Yuujin]

That being said, I was a defense attorney, and I was shocked when they put Rittenhouse on the stand. I've never put a defendant on the stand in a jury trial, and only in a trial by judge when I knew the judge and his/her tendancies. Juries, by their nature, hate defendants, and the slightest slip-up by a defendant is usually held hugely against them. Don't show enough emotion? The jury thinks you're a stone cold criminal. Show too much emotion? It strikes them as insincere. The average juror is an idiot, the prosecution has to hope they have some level heads. Rittenhouse did more than slip up, he looked like an idiot up there today who couldn't explain why he was there with an AR-15, or why a guy who never touched him was a deadly threat.

I think they were attempting to garner too much sympathy for Rittenhouse. The prosecution has bungled its way through this case and my bet is they thought having Rittenhouse cry on the stand about how he felt his life was in danger and how remorseful he was about having to kill those men would be the final nail in the coffin for the case, but they clearly didn't coach him enough.

Today was a big fuck up. You can tell from how all the usual suspects in this thread have gone from "easy win" to "HORRIBLE MISCONDUCT. THEY SHOULD CALL A MISTRIAL!"

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Ahmaud Arbery is what commentators wish the Kyle Rittenhouse trial was.

Really? The defense dismissing nearly a dozen black jurors and the judge acknowledging it was likely racially motivated but because they gave race neutral arguments, nothing could be done? American justice is a jooooke.

[Edge-]

Really? The defense dismissing nearly a dozen black jurors and the judge acknowledging it was likely racially motivated but because they gave race neutral arguments, nothing could be done? American justice is a jooooke.

I love how so much of our system is built on shit like, "Well, the defense didn't explicitly state they were objecting to potential jurors because they were Black, so even if we know this is some racist bullshit and their removal was racially motivated there's just nothing we can do."

Remember how people keep saying that many/most of our institutions aren't built on racism? Makes you wonder.

[Yuujin]

I love how so much of our system is built on shit like, "Well, the defense didn't explicitly state they were objecting to potential jurors because they were Black, so even if we know this is some racist bullshit and their removal was racially motivated there's just nothing we can do."

Remember how people keep saying that many/most of our institutions aren't built on racism? Makes you wonder.

Makes you wonder what kinds of mental gymnastics deniers have to go through to pretend this shit doesn't exist.

If Rittenhouse, or these three guys are found guilty in the Ahmaud Arbery trial, do you think the pro capital punishment crowd is going to show up demanding they be put to death?

[Egomaniac]

Makes you wonder what kinds of mental gymnastics deniers have to go through to pretend this shit doesn't exist.

If Rittenhouse, or these three guys are found guilty in the Ahmaud Arbery trial, do you think the pro capital punishment crowd is going to show up demanding they be put to death?

I mean, we already know the answer to that...we saw it earlier this year with Derek Chauvin.

[Yuujin]

I mean, we already know the answer to that...we saw it earlier this year with Derek Chauvin.

I'll never miss an opportunity to expose the hypocrisy of the Right though. With that said, it's basically a full time job.

[Egomaniac]

I'll never miss an opportunity to expose the hypocrisy of the Right though. With that said, it's basically a full time job.

Not really worth it, they won't ever acknowledge it and, even in their private moments, they don't feel the shame that they should. As far as they are concerned, Derek Chauvin is like the first time in American history where an "innocent man" was convicted. If Rittenhouse is convicted (which is sadly looking like a big if right now)....it'll be the second.

[starstationprofm]

If Rittenhouse is convicted (which is sadly looking like a big if right now)....it'll be the second.

Why would Rittenhouse be convicted? It was clear from the start that he was innocent.

[Endus]

Why would Rittenhouse be convicted? It was clear from the start that he was innocent.

Why do you people insist on making shit up and pretending that it's truth?

[starstationprofm]

The only person who actually presented a lethal threat to anyone in this was Rittenhouse. Which isn't up for dispute. Cause, y'know, three people shot, two to death.

My dude you're so left you fell off the scale. Are you forgetting the guy yelling " I'll kill you " while following him, reaching for his gun?

or the guy with a pistol, who was feigning surrender?

Or the guy with the skateboard trying to hit him in the head?

[Egomaniac]

Why would Rittenhouse be convicted? It was clear from the start that he was innocent.

I bet you said that same thing about Chauvin...

[starstationprofm]

Why do you people insist on making shit up and pretending that it's truth?

There's a bunch of us who care about facts, not emotions.

[Egomaniac]

There's a bunch of us who care about facts, not emotions.

It's true... you aren't one of them...but its true.

[Yuujin]

Because there's a bunch of us who care about facts, not emotions.

Didn't this whole thing start because a kid who was illegally in possession of a firearm got into a confrontation and said illegal firearm was being wrestled from his hands? Wouldn't it stand to reason that no one would die if he hadn't been illegally in possession of a firearm?

Where do your emotions lie on that fact?

[starstationprofm]

It's true... you aren't one of them...but its true.

I foresee a lot of salt in your future when Kyle walks free.

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Didn't this whole thing start because a kid who was illegally in possession of a firearm got into a confrontation and said illegal firearm was being wrestled from his hands? Wouldn't it stand to reason that no one would die if he hadn't been illegally in possession of a firearm?

Where do your emotions lie on that fact?

Just because I jaywalk doesn't give you, a random nobody, the right to attack me.

The gun charge is the only one he might be guilty of.

By your logic none of this would've happened if the pedophile ( Rosenbaum ) had been put in jail for life.