Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[ClassicPeon]

One of the major reasons a wow 2 would be great now would be for a total reset of all this celestial stuff.

Get down to some more small scale problems and such.

I dont really see how they are going to scale it down atm, seeing how it would be really odd to just ignore all the costmic shit out there

[Dracullus]

We have not taken a brief patch excursion into the Shadowlands. We have spent the entire expansion in a place we have no connection to from before this expansion.

Argus worked because it was the finale to defeating the burning legion on Azeroth. Not the ending to an expansion where we spent the entire expansion there already.

As I have said before. Cosmic stuff should be the spice to a more grounded story, with just the finale going deep into the theme.
Go straight into the deep end immediately and it just gets more absurd.

Yeah, before 9.0 reveal I expected 'Death' expansion with Sylvanas, Bolvar, Bwomsandi, Mueh'zala.. but I though it will be either Northend revamp or never used area north of Stratholme, Shadowlands only as last part like Argus or Nyalotha.

(Btw, I remind you many people screamed about turning Argus, Nazjatar, Nyalotha, Emerald Dream into 'just' patch zones.. but when we got full continent with SL now suddenly everyone is "omg we need grounded stuff". Typical "Blizzard turn left, we whine it should turn right and vice versa" type of whining.)

Although for sure we got really creative zones and environments. Of course I'm aware people shit on them now cause expac is current, but you see in few years.

[TheFirstOnes]

Uhm where exactly did we as players leave Shadowlands during this expansion?

Bastion's stuff, namely. But that's it overall. That's ok. Azeroth can be a part of 9.2, but I don't want it to be the main area of the patch.

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One of the major reasons a wow 2 would be great now would be for a total reset of all this celestial stuff.

Get down to some more small scale problems and such.

I dont really see how they are going to scale it down atm, seeing how it would be really odd to just ignore all the costmic shit out there

Fuck no. That would just blow. We're already so far into the plot.

[ClassicPeon]

Bastion's stuff, namely. But that's it overall. That's ok. Azeroth can be a part of 9.2, but I don't want it to be the main area of the patch.

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Fuck no. That would just blow. We're already so far into the plot.

Not sure how that correlates

[Aeluron Lightsong]

One of the major reasons a wow 2 would be great now would be for a total reset of all this celestial stuff.

Get down to some more small scale problems and such.

I dont really see how they are going to scale it down atm, seeing how it would be really odd to just ignore all the costmic shit out there

Same reason stuff went small after the Legion was defeated after Hyjal. Same after Legion during BFA. People are too obessed with their anti cosmic stuff.

[Khaza-R]

The resistance to anything outside Azeroth or at least here and even Twitter. Like if its on Azeroth its all fine and dandy but second our boots aren't on Azeroth its like "I DON'T FEEL CONNECTED TO AZEROTH"


I digress though.

I think it has a whole lot less to do with where the setting is taking place versus them just making shit up as they go along.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think it has a whole lot less to do with where the setting is taking place versus them just making shit up as they go along.

Except they aren't making shit as they go along. That might of been a thing when this game was first released but not right now. They likely already know how 9.2 is gonna end or rather the expansion is gonna end(Weather its 9.2 or 9.3).

[Ersula]

WoD never had any connection to Azeroth besides the pre-event and the fact that Gul'dan was sent to us after HFC.

That's huge, tho. Time Shinanigans created an alternate Gul'dan who initiated the third Invasion of the Legion. For the last 5 expansions, the consiquences from the climax of the previous expansion leads us directly to the new expansion: And this expansion is so up in the air there are so many possibilities:

• The jailer is defeated, but he still hits the Sepulcher button & resets everything. We return to an azeroth at the height of the Black Empire & witness the rise of the Trolls
• Sylvanas helps us beat the jailer, but still betrays everyone & hits the Sepulcher Button, resetting Azeroth to a point before the Sunwell fell or simply an alternate Azeroth where Frostmorne was never hid on Azeroth.
• Sylvanas takes up the role of Arbiter, but still reforms the shadowlands to her liking: The existing Shadowlands residents are ejected into the living worlds, including fan favorites like Kaelthas getting a second chance at life.
• Arthas sacrifices himself to kill the Jailer. Venari was the Arbiter the whole time. Sylvanas becomes the 6th covenant leader & patron saint of the undead. Forsaken Elf allied races. There are now more undead on Azeroth but some of them are nice.
• Ion was correct about the Time Difference & we get a Planet of the Apes ending where the heroes return to Azeroth only to find Turalyon & Lor'themar accelerated the faction conflict & azeroth was destroyed by nuclear war. Mad Max Azeroth time.

[EbaumsTipster]

Where the hell is this Venari = Arbiter thing coming from?

Also Sylvanas and Arthas will get their redemption by blowing themselves up to kill Zovaal, removing themselves from the plot and getting revenge on the guy who corrupted them.

[Ersula]

Uhm where exactly did we as players leave Shadowlands during this expansion?

Yes, canonically we don't usually don't leave the area we're in during an expansion until its over. So we don't know if theres a time difference outside the Shadowlands or not. That's up to them & what they want to do for 10.0

[Khaza-R]

Except they aren't making shit as they go along. That might of been a thing when this game was first released but not right now. They likely already know how 9.2 is gonna end or rather the expansion is gonna end(Weather its 9.2 or 9.3).

But they are. They literally said they just made Maldraxxus because they thought it looked cool and metal.

[AngerFork]

2/3 or half of Legion‘s lifetime took place in Azeroth though. Shadowlands has been 100% Shadowlands. That’s the major problem in this case. And as others have tried before, I don’t think Draenor can be used as an example in this case. Most of Draenor‘s prominent characters existed before WoD. Almost everything in Shadowlands was made up during Shadowlands. Here’s just a big story disconnect between players and developers.

I still don't really get why this is a problem. We still have Warcraft characters in the Shadowlands & we are seeing continuations of their stories. The story comes from stuff we have already seen hints of in Azeroth, such as the Spirit Healers & the mention of the Shadowlands in the DK Starting Zone. It is largely made up to be sure...but why is that a problem? Pandaria was made up largely out of a joke character & became something very real. Ny'alotha was made up pretty much via hints in WoW & is largely regarded as lore that wasn't expanded on enough rather than being disconnected.

WoW is nearly 20 years old at this point. I'd be more concerned if they weren't making new zones disconnected to Azeroth than I am with the occasional off-world expansion. Shadowlands has a lot of lore issues to be sure, but I just don't get why "it isn't on Azeroth" is one of them.

[Ersula]

Where the hell is this Venari = Arbiter thing coming from?

Well there's nothing to say she isn't. And that they haven't dealt with any Arbiter lore since Shadowlands came out is pretty conspicuous. All we know is the Arbiter's soul got sucked into the maw & Venari can't leave the Maw for some unexplained reason.

Also Sylvanas and Arthas will get their redemption by blowing themselves up to kill Zovaal, removing themselves from the plot and getting revenge on the guy who corrupted them.

Aren't we tired of the Star Wars formula? That assets the only way to redemption is through suicide? It's exhausting.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, before 9.0 reveal I expected 'Death' expansion with Sylvanas, Bolvar, Bwomsandi, Mueh'zala.. but I though it will be either Northend revamp or never used area north of Stratholme, Shadowlands only as last part like Argus or Nyalotha.

(Btw, I remind you many people screamed about turning Argus, Nazjatar, Nyalotha, Emerald Dream into 'just' patch zones.. but when we got full continent with SL now suddenly everyone is "omg we need grounded stuff". Typical "Blizzard turn left, we whine it should turn right and vice versa" type of whining.)

Although for sure we got really creative zones and environments. Of course I'm aware people shit on them now cause expac is current, but you see in few years.

I suppose I was just the minority then. I fully agreed on not making Argus a full expansion, and I was vehemently against making this expansion take place in the Shsdowlands.

[Nraktja]

Less than 2 hours until announcement. Since it'll all mean probably nothing, let's all share our wildest predictions for 9.2 and possibly 10.0?

-I'm leaning heavily towards "Zereth Mortis" meaning "Keystone Death", or in this case Azeroth's Death and not an actual zone. Azeroth is heavily linked to the First Ones for reasons we still do not know yet and the Jailer needs to kill it/her to achieve his plan and "claim his prize". I think we all went to Zereth Mortis being the realm of the First Ones because in dialogues they are lumped together but none of the characters involved actually know who the heck the First Ones are or were, or anything about their realm.

-Either this patch or the next expansion will be heavily "time" influeced as a cosmic force. Honestly this is more me being convinced by people's well-thought out theories, what with the Infinite Dragonflight boss in Tazavesh in 9.1, the mechanical time dragonling pet that will be the anniversary reward etc. In addition, I believe the theories that the First Ones are time related in terms of cosmic power and might be the 7th or infinite force in Al'Firim's notes. Bronze Dragonflight was always in link with sands, Guardian of the First Ones boss in SoD features sands as again people pointed out etc. The portal that Zovaal used seem time-force related to me. The runes in the teaser have that bronze glow and sand-dust? As races in WoW are inspired by some real-life cultures, even the Brokers seem influenced by Arabic cultures in some ways, and I read a post about the fractals heavily resembling Muslim art of similar style. So, if Ion interview didn't make it clear, I don't think the next expansion will be cosmic force related like Lifelands or Light & Void. I'm leaning towards either the Dragon Isles being true or possibly another time travel or alternate universe Azeroth would be my guess.

-They're going to try to redeem Sylvanas obviously. I will hate this outcome the most but it is clear as day at this point since 9.1 direction.

-The one thing I cannot put together is how it'll all come together. Maybe Zovaal seeks the power of the First Ones as it is time-related and so he can make reality in his image? For that he needs Azeroth's death. And the Sepulcher may well be Azeroth's core. We'll see.

That's it from me. Despite theorizing, I'm not entirely convinced this all might be true either so no need to yell at me about how I'm wrong lol. I'll be back in 2 hours to either see if I got anything right or laugh at myself. Any other wild theories out there people? I love to theorize.

[Sondrelk]

Well there's nothing to say she isn't. And that they haven't dealt with any Arbiter lore since Shadowlands came out is pretty conspicuous.


Aren't we tired of the Star Wars formula? That assets the only way to redemption is through suicide? It's exhausting.

Tge arbiter is literally just the Jailers ability to judge souls taken from him and made into a construct.

Ve'nari is a broker based on everything we know, and the new lore book on the Shadiwlands even seems to fully explain why she is in the Maw being hunted by other brokers.

[Makabreska]

But they are. They literally said they just made Maldraxxus because they thought it looked cool and metal.

Ok? How is that making up things on a go? During planning phase they designed the place to look cool and metal. Or do you think that if they didn't get that idea, we would end up with only three Cov zones at launch?

[Ersula]

Except they aren't making shit as they go along. That might of been a thing when this game was first released but not right now. They likely already know how 9.2 is gonna end or rather the expansion is gonna end(Weather its 9.2 or 9.3).

It's fiction. They quite explicitly are making everything up as they go along. Did you really thing The Jailer was a thing in their minds when they were designing ICC??

[Khaza-R]

Ok? How is that making up things on a go? During planning phase they designed the place to look cool and metal. Or do you think that if they didn't get that idea, we would end up with only three Cov zones at launch?

Probably because they obviously designed Shadowlands around covenants rather than the other way around? Hence why it doesn't feel organic or believable in the slightest.

[Makorus]

Yes, canonically we don't usually don't leave the area we're in during an expansion until its over. So we don't know if theres a time difference outside the Shadowlands or not. That's up to them & what they want to do for 10.0

We do have characters coming INTO the Shadowlands though (Taelia and Caelia, for example), so surely it would have been brought up that "hey, youve been in the Shadowlands for 10 years now!"