Uther and Tyrande interactions with Sylvanas.

[VladlTutushkin]

You do have rumors.
Velen tells the Horde not to go to kaldorei lands, given the situation.

I think we all can summarize that this means anything that is night elven (borders of Ashenvale, through to Hyjal), plus everything in between will not be featured.

Still - we might get a small Eldre'Thalas update, so their is that.

It does not specify anything. It says “lands”. Dosent say what lands or zones. We still up in the air about Ashenvale even.

[Tanaria]

It does not specify anything. It says “lands”. Dosent say what lands or zones. We still up in the air about Ashenvale even.

kaldorei lands...even I, somebody who is not a night elf fan, has a good idea what that means.

I mean, if the next expansion is an Azeroth revamp, then we'll get a night elf lands update anyway.

[VladlTutushkin]

kaldorei lands...even I, somebody who is not a night elf fan, has a good idea what that means.

I mean, if the next expansion is an Azeroth revamp, then we'll get a night elf lands update anyway.

The land that was occupied almost entirely. By the end of BfA night elves onpy had Darkshore and MAYBE Hyjal as confirmed land they held. Which still leaves fate of Ashenvale unknown.

[Tanaria]

The land that was occupied almost entirely. By the end of BfA night elves onpy had Darkshore and MAYBE Hyjal as confirmed land they held. Which still leaves fate of Ashenvale unknown.

Well what else do you need, after the Fourth War?

I mean, I am the idiot for thinking that night elf lands means all kalimdor, night elf controlled lands? Old and new..?
I criticize Blizzard a lot, but even I'd have thought they wouldn't need to tell night elf fans what lands they own, after it being stated "don't go to night elf lands." Well, ok - so, that's Ashenvale, Darkshore, Hyjal...I mean hell Vlad, if your a citizen who doesn't have access to a flying mount, you need to go through Ashenvale to get to Hyjal.

[geco]

I mean, her getting away with everything while night elves are left in the dust to rot is basically a give, dosent take a Nostradamus to predict that.

I am genuinely trying to think what there can be to entice a player to roll a night elf plotwise/lorewise. Or Alliance in general. They are so impotent, weak, worthless, pansy, generally pathetic, personally pitiful and beaten to a pulp...

Also unification > another war. Or you want to go kill some pitiful night elves with sprinkling of humans, who forgive you as they die and only ask not to step on the lilies as you leave? Are you enjoying such wars where opponent not even fighting you for real but trying to help you become a better person?

I'd rather have a clear cut unification then THAT atrocity again.

Do you remember Zandalar? Well the same but mount Hijal. What Blizzard has to do to correct the BFA error is to make an expansion with the same terrain distribution but sitting on Kaldorei and Renegades (or another from the Horde).
Put Azhara and the Naga as an enemy or something like that so that it doesn't do any major damage to any capital.

Many will say that an expansion more focused on Kaldorei and Forsaken is bad idae. But hey, it's another Blizzard shit of always kicking the ball forward and never solving anything.

Any horde member, druid or not should not be allowed to enter any land that night elves still hold. Under no pretence.

And I emphasize this.
There is no Invacion plot or anything. The Horde does not meddle in Alliance business and the Alliance does not meddle in Horde business. Not as clear players. They can go NPC only to die from messing where they shouldn't.

At this point I just hope that Blizzard at least has the wherewithal to realize that Sylvanas should never return to Azeroth.
Redeeming her is a massive stretch as it is, even assuming the version we see in SL where Teldrassil is a nebulous event instead of one done by her personally.
Asking the players to not just accept her being good, but also having to see her go back to Azeroth in any capacity would be insane. Even just having her live in a cottage in Eversong woods with Nathanos and never be seen I the plot again would be insulting to the playerbase and the narrative as a whole when so many would want to see her dead.

Blizzard told us throughout BFA that she is the culprit and the only mega culprit and that by killing her, revenge and everything bad is sanctioned.
But now she tells us that we can't kill her.

I mean, it is not born from the players wanting to kill her. She is born from Blizzard itself.

Well what else do you need, after the Fourth War?

I mean, I am the idiot for thinking that night elf lands means all kalimdor, night elf controlled lands? Old and new..?
I criticize Blizzard a lot, but even I'd have thought they wouldn't need to tell night elf fans what lands they own, after it being stated "don't go to night elf lands." Well, ok - so, that's Ashenvale, Darkshore, Hyjal...I mean hell Vlad, if your a citizen who doesn't have access to a flying mount, you need to go through Ashenvale to get to Hyjal.

Ashenvale, Azhara (Treaty broke), Darkshore, and Hijal.
And I'm sure I'm missing some territory.

Basically all the sounds of North Kalimndor Forest.

[Tanaria]

Ashenvale, Azhara (Treaty broke), Dark Coast, and Hijal.
And I'm sure I'm missing some territory.

Basically all the sounds of North Kalimndor Forest.

Where's Dark Coast?

[geco]

Where's Dark Coast?

Darkshore my bad

[sighy]

I would have said who you are and what your takes are but i dont want to get banned… at the moment at least.

So yeah, your takes are very wrong, miss the mark and do not speak justly about Alliance fans and their reaction. Neither they represent the plot and they are heavily skewed towards the Horde without doubt.

You are being more disingenuous in this post then a rub of the mill politician on debates.

Killing her would have angered her “fans” which are not even whole Horde. Letring her live and giving her hamfisted redemption will piss off entire Alliance who was riled up endlessly by her actions and those horde fans who dont like her getting off the hook after she dragged the faction through another attempt at genocidal world conquest. You heavily overestimating her fanbase size.

And i dont care if you got tired of discussing BfA prepatch, because it is still there. If she and her fans are so incredibly valuable and should have their cake and eat it, then why night elf fans, Alliance fans, Tyrande fans and non-genocidal Horde fans are not entitled to the same treatment?

You cant throw this part out just because you dont like it. If she gets her redemption Blizzard should offer equally satisfying resolution to Alliance and the night elves specifically.

To put it bluntly for the average player the Lore is nice to have, when it's good and a bit of an eyesore, when it's bad, but it doesn't really determine much of anything. The thing that does however is gameplay, which has severely underdelivered, in the expansions which did poorly. Warlords of Garrisons, Battle for GCDs and flopped Systemslands are prime examples. MoP's lore outside the Mogu stuff was a fucking shitshow and people still tout it as one of the best ever expansions. TBC didn't even have a coherent story and Vanilla only had a few questlines, which were mostly on the Aliance side anyway. People generally leave over Systems problems not lore.


It's quite clear that Blizzard underestimated the amount of people, who did side with Sylvanas. She is a divisive character so the odds of her sendoff/benching being divisive are about 100%. But tbh i don't expect you to accept any consessions or compromises, becaue you are fundamentally hypocritical and refusing to see that BfA narrative was an overall ill conceived mess, which was disrespectful and damaging on all sides. (Unless you subscribe to masochistic Anduinism i guess) IF you're not willing to accept that the story has to be written also for people, who don't share your specific view of the story then you are going to be disappointed, because your expectations are unrealistic. From a creative writing standpoint there have been places, where she could have met her demise, but now it would simply be a wet fart to appease the likes of you specifically, which would be just another in the line of things your kind discards as "Hollow Victories" anyway. The man responsible for Teldrassil has been fired and revealed to be pretty much the driving force behind their contemporary legal problems, while leaving the current team to pick up the pieces. Did they do a good job so far? Hell no, but we don't have the whole picture yet. I'm not interested in high score, but rather actual solid storytelling so if they actually manage to make it an actual story, unlike the last 2 expansions then I'm willing to give them benefit of the doubt that they at least have done a Skillshare course on fundamentals of creative storytelling.

[VladlTutushkin]

Well what else do you need, after the Fourth War?

I mean, I am the idiot for thinking that night elf lands means all kalimdor, night elf controlled lands? Old and new..?
I criticize Blizzard a lot, but even I'd have thought they wouldn't need to tell night elf fans what lands they own, after it being stated "don't go to night elf lands." Well, ok - so, that's Ashenvale, Darkshore, Hyjal...I mean hell Vlad, if your a citizen who doesn't have access to a flying mount, you need to go through Ashenvale to get to Hyjal.

I wanted to know if they hold Ashenvale, first and foremost. Also what about Stonetalon and Hyjal. Stonetalon was not too densely populated by night elves but still it would be interesting to know.

[Tanaria]

I wanted to know if they hold Ashenvale, first and foremost. Also what about Stonetalon and Hyjal. Stonetalon was not too densely populated by night elves but still it would be interesting to know.

Well if night elf lands (aside from Feralas) don't feature in the new explorer's book, then we'll have our answer.

Stonetalon will likely feature, because that isn't night elf land, nor did Sylvanas invade it, during the WoT.

The only Night Elves, that I believe have lived there, were Highborne Mages under Princess Aszune, from 10,000 years ago. (Kaleni Mages, I think.)

[VladlTutushkin]

To put it bluntly for the average player the Lore is nice to have, when it's good and a bit of an eyesore, when it's bad, but it doesn't really determine much of anything. The thing that does however is gameplay, which has severely underdelivered, in the expansions which did poorly. Warlords of Garrisons, Battle for GCDs and flopped Systemslands are prime examples. MoP's lore outside the Mogu stuff was a fucking shitshow and people still tout it as one of the best ever expansions. TBC didn't even have a coherent story and Vanilla only had a few questlines, which were mostly on the Aliance side anyway. People generally leave over Systems problems not lore.


It's quite clear that Blizzard underestimated the amount of people, who did side with Sylvanas. She is a divisive character so the odds of her sendoff/benching being divisive are about 100%. But tbh i don't expect you to accept any consessions or compromises, becaue you are fundamentally hypocritical and refusing to see that BfA narrative was an overall ill conceived mess, which was disrespectful and damaging on all sides. (Unless you subscribe to masochistic Anduinism i guess) IF you're not willing to accept that the story has to be written also for people, who don't share your specific view of the story then you are going to be disappointed, because your expectations are unrealistic. From a creative writing standpoint there have been places, where she could have met her demise, but now it would simply be a wet fart to appease the likes of you specifically, which would be just another in the line of things your kind discards as "Hollow Victories" anyway. The man responsible for Teldrassil has been fired and revealed to be pretty much the driving force behind their contemporary legal problems, while leaving the current team to pick up the pieces. Did they do a good job so far? Hell no, but we don't have the whole picture yet. I'm not interested in high score, but rather actual solid storytelling so if they actually manage to make it an actual story, unlike the last 2 expansions then I'm willing to give them benefit of the doubt that they at least have done a Skillshare course on fundamentals of creative storytelling.

Only hypocrite here is you. Horde shifted their whole blame on Sylvanas and she now will escape the justice. Where blame goes then?

Also you keep talking about her fans, and i am talking about fans of OTHER characters who were humiliated, browbeaten and worfed so she could have her “big, flashy events”.

So entire Alliance supposed to suck dick now because one decomposing hoe is too “divisive”? Are night elves supposed to eat even MORE shit then they already did? Fucken crawling in the sewage at this point, not seeing a single glimmer of hope for better future.

Also you are assuming people would not celebrate if she died. Alliance would finally have that bone we were promised since the beginning.

It may be hard for you to swallow but if we are to really buy into the whole “forgive-forget” shtick and hold hands then we need some form of incentive to get over a genocide and warcrime fiesta Horde shat out on us.

And what we have now? Nothing. Tyrande was essentially a useless bitch. Elune is a space bimbo and our faction as a whole a pansy ass cocksuckers. I am fucken sorry but i am not into that shit.

What are you suggesting here? That we just move past the Teldrassil without retribution? That we just swallow this humiliation, one in a string of many and “choose renewal”?

If Blizzard were dumb enough to genocide a playable race, “nearly wipe out” them, then Blizzard should do something to create a satisfying followup on this huge event. No matter if they did it under one leadership or another.

Alliance was a punching bag for the Horde for years by now, you may be used to it, but it crossed the threshold now. Just losing cities and zones was bad, losing a whole war and getting a genocide dished out was fucked up and then learning that all those souls are in the Maw, being ground into Afterlife Fuel was even more screwed.

Besides, Thrall and his big mouth made plenty of promised. Would be neat if he fails to uphold the “head of the banshee” one and gets shanked for this flap of his tongue.

[Houle]

Practically speaking Blizzard showing some respect to characters that carried their god damned franchise for the past 20 years would be nice for a change, before they inevitably get put on the shelf until further notice.

lol, like they showed respect to ner'zhul, kel'thuzad, kil'jaeden, archimonde, garrosh, n'zoth and whoever else i forgot? all of them once-very-important characters, that got wasted in the most direspectful manner imaginable?

[sighy]

Only hypocrite here is you. Horde shifted their whole blame on Sylvanas and she now will escape the justice. Where blame goes then?

Also you keep talking about her fans, and i am talking about fans of OTHER characters who were humiliated, browbeaten and worfed so she could have her “big, flashy events”.

So entire Alliance supposed to suck dick now because one decomposing hoe is too “divisive”? Are night elves supposed to eat even MORE shit then they already did? Fucken crawling in the sewage at this point, not seeing a single glimmer of hope for better future.

Also you are assuming people would not celebrate if she died. Alliance would finally have that bone we were promised since the beginning.

It may be hard for you to swallow but if we are to really buy into the whole “forgive-forget” shtick and hold hands then we need some form of incentive to get over a genocide and warcrime fiesta Horde shat out on us.

And what we have now? Nothing. Tyrande was essentially a useless bitch. Elune is a space bimbo and our faction as a whole a pansy ass cocksuckers. I am fucken sorry but i am not into that shit.

What are you suggesting here? That we just move past the Teldrassil without retribution? That we just swallow this humiliation, one in a string of many and “choose renewal”?

If Blizzard were dumb enough to genocide a playable race, “nearly wipe out” them, then Blizzard should do something to create a satisfying followup on this huge event. No matter if they did it under one leadership or another.

Alliance was a punching bag for the Horde for years by now, you may be used to it, but it crossed the threshold now. Just losing cities and zones was bad, losing a whole war and getting a genocide dished out was fucked up and then learning that all those souls are in the Maw, being ground into Afterlife Fuel was even more screwed.

Besides, Thrall and his big mouth made plenty of promised. Would be neat if he fails to uphold the “head of the banshee” one and gets shanked for this flap of his tongue.

In short? No.

In a longer term people who would subscribe to see Sylvanas die would be gone in a month and continue bitching about getting nothing, on 3rd party forums, like all the other times, if even that. Reclaimed Darkshore quite convincingly resulting in a hurried retreat? Means nothing! Sacked the centre of all trollkind and killed their king,w ho is the single most significant contemporary troll figure like a chump? That was actually a good thing, because now his capable strong female daughter could replace him! Undo literally everything the Horde players did? naah that holds no water.... and so forth.

I was against the copout, even the first time they did it, because it undermines the genuine preexisting tensions and characterwork. And knowing that there inevitable will be more pvpish content the person declaring peace will look like a complete idiot. (Hello Varian the second Ashran became a thing) It'S the exact same problem now as it was then, except now it's even worse, in thanks to it being a rehash, taking away any credibility of Mak'gora/Warchief, making the Aliance cast look stupid and the rebels even fucking dumber, ebcause now the Horde is basically lead by a collection of Aliance twinks. The story of BfA was a total systematic failiure at storytelling. There isn't one thing you can single out, as being the one bad thing, in good faith.



By that same token, when i say that Blizzard needs to find a suitable compromise i mean it. You're probably used to Blizzard throwing all notbale Horde characters under the bus to give you exciting new content so they cans tumble over themselves and die, in retarded ways, in some cases even multiple times. So showing a Horde character some god damned respect, in how they portray them would be a refreshing change of pace. Dealing with it properly would require nuance of course. Nobody says they should make up and become the next power couple of Warcraft, in celebration of lgbtq diversity quota, but when you have in mind the afterlife being fucked before Sylvanas even lifted a finger and the current enslavement of the whole universe thing... giving back the tree, it'S inhabitants and having fixed the afterlife to no longer be a broken piece of shit ruled over by blindly negligent twats it would overall be a net gain.

(Tbh they'd probably like to distance themselves from a hell of a lot of things Afrasiabi did just about now so sweeping it under the rug, with an uno undo card wouldn't be the worst case scenario.)

- - - Updated - - -

lol, like they showed respect to ner'zhul, kel'thuzad, kil'jaeden, archimonde, garrosh, n'zoth and whoever else i forgot? all of them once-very-important characters, that got wasted in the most direspectful manner imaginable?

Yeah... that list is a LOT longer

[ilgynoth]

Uther - apparently a “mentor” (because his mentoring did SO much good for Arthas!). Sylvanas also confirmed to be goodest girl now, she wuz tricked and it was all cause of her split soul. Guess rest of the Horde also had their souls split while they slept or something. Maybe barbers in Orgrimmar were secretly Dreadlords or Mawsworn and stole cuts of their souls while working.

“In fact, [Uther] can serve as something of a guide for her through that process; he had no one to help guide him, but Uther understands what it is like to go through something like that, and you’ll see how maybe he can help guide Sylvanas through those treacherous waters.”

Tyrande - “heavy” interactions aka “talk angrily to be shown as a fool while others forgive her”.

“I would say those two figures have a lot to – I don’t know if ‘resolve’ is the right word, because can you ever resolve something that happens on the scale of an entire civilization nearly being wiped out? There is going to be some very heavy interaction between those characters, and that is pivotal to the final conclusion of how ‘Eternity’s End’ and the Shadowlands saga wraps up.”

Also night elves being “nearly wiped out” confirms that they were indeed reduced to almost nothing apparently. So those nay sayers who claimed that “refugees in Stormwind were most of their civilians saved” were wrong, as i said.

Blizz being their good old insane selves and acting like they dont get it why people are so bent out of shape by this plot is just extra cherry on top.

- - - Updated - - -

Also look! https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...&utm_term=link Whos that all non-evil and free in the background ?

yeah bro we won. Swollow that pill and get over it
I couldn't give less a fuck about Night elves and their fan base and I would say the most people think the same - even devs think the same.
Otherwise the night elves would not have been treated like shit since the beginning of WoW in calssic.
I feel the pain ofc for being treated like shit just because you adore the wrong faction. Hell, I even felt the same in BfA for playing Forsaken

But otherwise, liek bru Sylvanas is 10x more important/entertaining to the entire franchise than a bunch of night elves.
So I'm glad you people take the L just so the awesomeness of Sylvanas can continue after some years of her being Illidan'ed (put in ice to bring her later back)

My best advice for you is:

Option A: You swollow the pill and accept it, be done with it and look for the future

OptionB: You say they have crossed a line and you are done with Warcraft. You go and look for something new


the end

[Toho]

OptionB: You say they have crossed a line and you are done with Warcraft. You go and look for something new
the end

For me it was the Tyrande vs Sylvanas fight.
That pretty much killed any vested interested I had.

I don't get angry anymore, I don't get sad and whatever they do I doubt I would be happy either.

Even if the NE wildest fantasies come true... It would just be pure disappointment. Like, why did it have to come to this?
Moving on though? WoW has been around for so long that it always pulls you back to laugh and shake your head at the waste of it all but after a couple days or a week? It pretty much ceases being a thing for me.

Been playing Baldur's Gate 3 a lot. Its still in Alpha but its just so, so good.

[Zers Editor]

For Sylvanas to become an Arbiter would be the opposite of what she was trying to achieve pre-ending of 9.1 - being free. She will have an obligation to fill for the rest of her existence, doing only what she must to instead of what she wants.

That CAN happen, but I STRONGLY doubt it.

Judging by "rescuing Anduin" and him "knowing domination magic" won't be surprised if they make HIM the new Jailer after the current one inevitably kicks the bucket.

[VladlTutushkin]

yeah bro we won. Swollow that pill and get over it
I couldn't give less a fuck about Night elves and their fan base and I would say the most people think the same - even devs think the same.
Otherwise the night elves would not have been treated like shit since the beginning of WoW in calssic.
I feel the pain ofc for being treated like shit just because you adore the wrong faction. Hell, I even felt the same in BfA for playing Forsaken

But otherwise, liek bru Sylvanas is 10x more important/entertaining to the entire franchise than a bunch of night elves.
So I'm glad you people take the L just so the awesomeness of Sylvanas can continue after some years of her being Illidan'ed (put in ice to bring her later back)

My best advice for you is:

Option A: You swollow the pill and accept it, be done with it and look for the future

OptionB: You say they have crossed a line and you are done with Warcraft. You go and look for something new


the end

Yeah, yeah go fuck yourself.

You winning a rigged game, and i rather be a loser then a winner by the writers fiat.

Also she was coddled like a golden child since inception, beinf probably the most proactive leader who wasnt constantly worfed, turned into a moron or lectured on how to be a good girl.

[geco]

For Sylvanas to become an Arbiter would be the opposite of what she was trying to achieve pre-ending of 9.1 - being free. She will have an obligation to fill for the rest of her existence, doing only what she must to instead of what she wants.

That CAN happen, but I STRONGLY doubt it.

Judging by "rescuing Anduin" and him "knowing domination magic" won't be surprised if they make HIM the new Jailer after the current one inevitably kicks the bucket.

The problem is, Sylvanas wasn't really trying to accomplish anything.
It cannot be a victory to take "freedom" from Sylvanas when he at no time does he convincingly show that he was looking for that. It's just a worthless word. So it is not going to give any satisfaction to remove it.

[sighy]

The problem is, Sylvanas wasn't really trying to accomplish anything.
It cannot be a victory to take "freedom" from Sylvanas when he at no time does he convincingly show that he was looking for that. It's just a worthless word. So it is not going to give any satisfaction to remove it.

Best guess we can likely infer, until we have it literally spelled out for us is probably something regarding the abolition of stuff like the Maw and the Arbiter, because from her perspective it was fucked... which to be fair it was, but not for the reasons she was lead to believe based on the information she had... apparently. IF that really was her goal then taking away her access to the afterlife deadpool style would be one way of handling it, if they were going for the good ole ironic twist.

[geco]

Best guess we can likely infer, until we have it literally spelled out for us is probably something regarding the abolition of stuff like the Maw and the Arbiter, because from her perspective it was fucked... which to be fair it was, but not for the reasons she was lead to believe based on the information she had... apparently. IF that really was her goal then taking away her access to the afterlife deadpool style would be one way of handling it, if they were going for the good ole ironic twist.

Sure but that does not generate satisfaction.
So as a Kaldorei or Horde player you want to have Honor. How it gives you satisfaction to break something that maybe you can infer that she cares.

Best practical algorithm. Torturing her sisters in front of her. Something that is clear that she cares.