1. #20441
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Dude, I don't know why you're being so dense about this. It's not JUST "holding a gun". Attending a protest in order to intimidate people while carrying a loaded gun is provocative.
    To be fair, with US gun laws, it can't be legally construed as provocation just to be open-carrying.

    That said, there's at least two points where Rittenhouse arguably brandished his weapon unlawfully, which would be provocation, and the jury's been advised they can consider that.


  2. #20442
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    So, you dispute that there is in fact systemic bias in the justice system and that police brutality is a problem in America I guess?

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    A reasonable person is going to assume that a lethal weapon being pointed at them is a threat to their life.

    Not everyone is a small dicked 2A nut, y'all.
    I’m disputing that you can accomplish much there. It’s also an impossible conversation to have - if someone disagrees about the scope of a problem, you can just say, of course, you’re biased.

    I see other policies - like relaxing zoning laws and increasing, not decreasing, opportunities for gifted children in urban schools - as more likely to make a difference.

    The one area where I think real progress has been made recently is minimum wage.

  3. #20443
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post

    I don't see how holding a gun directly provokes an attack.

    Jesus Christ you are so blind by your need to defend Rittenhouse you're just lying about basic rights to self defense at this point, in order to justify Rittenhouse's "self defense". just stop. this is is actually sad.

  4. #20444

    Alliance

    https://www.reuters.com/world/americ...up-2021-05-02/

    Today I learned the Proud Boys have not existed in Canada for half a year. I imagine they will be taken off Canada's list of domestic terrorist groups upon the next review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    A reasonable person is going to assume that a lethal weapon being pointed at them is a threat to their life.
    Aside from Rosenbaum, and the other attackers, it has not been shown that Kyle pointed his gun at anyone. Unless you are speaking generally, in which case I agree.
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  5. #20445
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/world/americ...up-2021-05-02/

    Today I learned the Proud Boys have not existed in Canada for half a year. I imagine they will be taken off Canada's list of domestic terrorist groups upon the next review.
    Dissolving their official presence does not mean they no longer exist.

    Aside from Rosenbaum, and the other attackers, it has not been shown that Kyle pointed his gun at anyone. Unless you are speaking generally, in which case I agree.
    This is trivially false. There was drone footage of Rittenhouse pointing his gun at the Ziminskis. Over and above brandishing it at Rosenbaum unlawfully.


  6. #20446
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    Jesus Christ you are so blind by your need to defend Rittenhouse you're just lying about basic rights to self defense at this point, in order to justify Rittenhouse's "self defense". just stop. this is is actually sad.
    Think logically about this… do you think it makes sense to have gun laws that say “sure, you can carry a gun, but if you do so we’re going to assume you are provoking attacks on yourself.”

  7. #20447
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Think logically about this… do you think it makes sense to have gun laws that say “sure, you can carry a gun, but if you do so we’re going to assume you are provoking attacks on yourself.”
    You have the legal right to walk down the street shouting racial epithets at black people. That's free speech, after all.

    It's also going to be considered provocation if one of them takes issue with it and attacks you.


  8. #20448
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Think logically about this… do you think it makes sense to have gun laws that say “sure, you can carry a gun, but if you do so we’re going to assume you are provoking attacks on yourself.”
    first of all: just because a law says you can open carry doesn't mean other people are naturally going to be comfortable when a stranger is carrying an assault rifle around. quite the opposite actually. especially in the context of that night.

    secondly: he was pointing it at people! and even shot at people other than Rosenbaum.

    just. stop.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2021-11-13 at 09:45 PM.

  9. #20449
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    A reasonable person is going to assume that a lethal weapon being pointed at them is a threat to their life.

    Not everyone is a small dicked 2A nut, y'all.
    I mean this is literally covered in a CC class. You don't pull your gun unless you intend to use it -- because if you're going to use it to threaten someone there is a chance they're going to shoot back, and they're going to legit be able to claim self defense.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

    I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom? -Ratonhnhaké:ton (Connor Kenway)

  10. #20450
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You have the legal right to walk down the street shouting racial epithets at black people. That's free speech, after all.

    It's also going to be considered provocation if one of them takes issue with it and attacks you.
    True, but the whole flawed purpose of allowing open carry is to protect yourself. The purpose of free speech isn’t to allow people to yell racial epithets.

    The argument has to be more than gun as provocation, it’s about pointing it and what he did with it.

    In the article I read earlier a legal defense expert said something like - this is a close one, and defendants should win the close ones. That’s where I’m at.

  11. #20451
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/world/americ...up-2021-05-02/

    Today I learned the Proud Boys have not existed in Canada for half a year. I imagine they will be taken off Canada's list of domestic terrorist groups upon the next review.
    Several us agencies label them white supremacists, extremists, and or a gang.

    And just recently they and other groups were discussed at a hearing before the subcommittee on intelligence and counterterrorism:
    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...7hhrg44824.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  12. #20452
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    I mean this is literally covered in a CC class. You don't pull your gun unless you intend to use it -- because if you're going to use it to threaten someone there is a chance they're going to shoot back, and they're going to legit be able to claim self defense.
    How does that work with a rifle? There’s no place to put it - it’s always out.

  13. #20453
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    How does that work with a rifle? There’s no place to put it - it’s always out.
    That's satire, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  14. #20454
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    That's satire, right?
    No. I have no idea how guns work.

  15. #20455
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    No. I have no idea how guns work.
    You have also never seen any of the footage showing how he carried the rifle. Are you sure you know what topic you're talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  16. #20456
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    Well when Rittenhouse gets acquitted, I hope this means we'll have more Protesters arming themselves to protect against the emboldened vigilantes who're going to materialize at future protests thinking they can get away with shooting 'Communist Pedophiles'.
    They already were though; in Rittenhouse case there were already guns on "other side", one of which was even fired first (into air).

  17. #20457
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    You have also never seen any of the footage showing how he carried the rifle. Are you sure you know what topic you're talking about?
    He doesn't actually care about the topic.

  18. #20458
    This thread is just another massive reminder that the US is a failed experiment. People defending a murder because the legal system is rigged to the rafters.

  19. #20459

    Alliance

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    They already were though; in Rittenhouse case there were already guns on "other side", one of which was even fired first (into air).
    Yep, that was Ziminski. He admitted to firing a "warning shot" in the air that night.

    Ziminski would be a key witness to whether Kyle aimed his weapon at Rosenbaum before being chased. The pictures and video of the supposed incident are too blurry to positively state Kyle did so.
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  20. #20460
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    You have also never seen any of the footage showing how he carried the rifle. Are you sure you know what topic you're talking about?
    The rule you mentioned sounds like it was meant for handguns, because you can put those in a holster and such.

    I’m asking (again, third time now) how it applies to rifles. Because I don’t know, and when I don’t know something I usually ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    This thread is just another massive reminder that the US is a failed experiment. People defending a murder because the legal system is rigged to the rafters.
    Yeah! Back to monarchy!

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