The gods are 3d printed? (9.2)

[Varodoc]

Good and bad are two sides of the same coin. You can not have one without the other. When you create something, you automatically create its opposite. (Light/ no light (dark), hot/ no heat (cold), good/ no good (bad).

Also, we know those creatures as "bad" from our viewpoint of denizens of Azeroth, who knows if elsewhere in the cosmos they might serve some important purpose that we are unaware of?

You said it not me.

I never said the Void Lords are bad, I said they seek to consume everything. I have no doubt that they, being creatures of Void, would see it as good i.e. beneficial for themselves. Although obviously any sane person (so barring the Twilight's Hammer) would see that as evil

Even N'Zoth didn't see himself as the bad buy.

[Nathanyel]

Ah, I see. I was picturing the first ones feeding info into a machine and getting Elune. Maybe not quite what the developers envisioned.

Some people just like to rephrase available info in the dumbest way possible to make it sound contrived, to be able to mock it.

[Mungho]

Some people just like to rephrase available info in the dumbest way possible to make it sound contrived, to be able to mock it.

Yeah, the title of this thread sounds really stupid to me now. Thanks everyone for replying.

I mean using your logic everything in existence was merely "3D printed" by the first ones.

Well, 3d printing a god seemed a little different.

[shoc]

Y'all arguing with each other about what's true and not true based on the rules and precedents we have been presented with is a totally futile effort. All the rules are going to change one expansion from now, lore theorizing about implications now is pointless, it is just a matter of time now until Danuser is fired and they replace him with some other useless hack who wants to carve their fanfic into canon.

[huth]

Well, 3d printing a god seemed a little different.

I mean, when you get down to it humans basically 3D print more humans.

The idea of designing living beings is hardly new to the franchise, either. It's pretty much just a matter of scale here.

[Thelyron]

The First Ones are genuinely retarded if they made *ALL* the forces. Why would they make the Void Lords and the Demons that seek to consume everything else?

It's like building two robots, except that one robot is programmed to kill the other one and burn down your entire house and laboratory, it doesn't make sense at all.

No, it can't be. I'm sure they'll reveal in the inevitable Light and Void expansion that the Void Lords and the Naaru (or whoever are the true Light Gods) have always existed (it was speculated in Legion that the Naaru were created by Elune, based on the Tears of Elune unlocking Xe'ra's core, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if this was retconned). They don't look designed by the First Ones one bit, and indeed they often threatened the Shadowlands (First Ones' creation). Same thing for the demons of the Legion, who were at war with the armies of Maldraxxus.

While I can buy that the Titans, Life, and Death are all made by the First Ones, since they are all allied in one way or another. Ardenweald and the Emerald Dream are two sides of the same cycle of death and rebirth, with the Winter Queen and Elune being sisters; and the Titans are very clearly mechanically-inspired, so it makes sense if they were literally machines built by the First Ones.

>The First Ones are genuinely retarded
A character can only ever be as smart as the person writing them.

[ClassicPeon]

Ah, I see, they are recycling the Xel'naga from Starcraft

Someone does something vaguely close to a narrative they have seen in another place "OH I SEE - LAWL LOL LAL ITS RECYCLED LELELELEL"

Come on man

[UndedoKoleda]

Nature and Light also aims to consume everything if left unchecked.

It should be pretty clear that the cosmic forces were ordered by the First Ones to be in cycles.
There is no life without death. No order without chaos. No light without shadow (void).

Everything is a cycle. I think even the latest broker book said this. It's only that life and death is like the most important one (to that broker anyways).

I still don't get it what is that cycle? Even Sylvanas wants to break it, but it doesn't feel much of a cycle to me. Living things die -> most of them(outside of some cases in Anderweald) stay dead until the end of eternity or get stripped into anima, just to be consumed by other entities of the Death realm. Where is the cycle in all of this?

The forces of Disorder literally killed the entire Pantheon of Titans(Order) and destroyed countless worlds. Where is the cycle/balance in that?

None of this makes any sense. We know from Shadowlands that the First Ones made the Eternal Ones, but they were all neutral, none of them were made bad, or evil, or wanting to consume the rest of them, or wanting to undo everything, or anything at all resembling Void or Disorder. So it makes no sense why would they create such forces in the other dimension.

To balance each other is a nothing answer. It's like quantum physics in any Hollywood production, it's a cope-out when they are too lazy to think of a proper explanation.

[DatToffer]

The First Ones are genuinely retarded if they made *ALL* the forces. Why would they make the Void Lords and the Demons that seek to consume everything else?

It's like building two robots, except that one robot is programmed to kill the other one and burn down your entire house and laboratory, it doesn't make sense at all.

No, it can't be. I'm sure they'll reveal in the inevitable Light and Void expansion that the Void Lords and the Naaru (or whoever are the true Light Gods) have always existed (it was speculated in Legion that the Naaru were created by Elune, based on the Tears of Elune unlocking Xe'ra's core, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if this was retconned). They don't look designed by the First Ones one bit, and indeed they often threatened the Shadowlands (First Ones' creation). Same thing for the demons of the Legion, who were at war with the armies of Maldraxxus.

While I can buy that the Titans, Life, and Death are all made by the First Ones, since they are all allied in one way or another. Ardenweald and the Emerald Dream are two sides of the same cycle of death and rebirth, with the Winter Queen and Elune being sisters; and the Titans are very clearly mechanically-inspired, so it makes sense if they were literally machines built by the First Ones.

It's more complicated than that.

The Cosmic Forces already existed in primal forms and in opposition with each other. The First Ones allegedly brought balance to them, thus allowing the creation of all reality and shit. In Zereth Mortis, we just see a direct way for the First ones to order and influence the Forces.

[Aucald]

Zereth Mortis isn't implied to be the source of all things, just the place where afterlife realms are minted by celestial machinery overseen by the First Ones' servants and fabricators. The rest of the metacosm, such as the overarching forces of Light and Void, Life and Death, were likely more direct creations of these First Ones - and the beings that arose from them, like the Naaru or the Void Lords, owe the genesis to the First Ones but may not have been directly created as such. Zereth Mortis needs to be more or less automated because of the nature of its service, as new beings are constantly born and die, and new/personal afterlives need to be continually created to facilitate those beings, their civilizations, and what have you.

[Mace]

The First Ones are genuinely retarded if they made *ALL* the forces. Why would they make the Void Lords and the Demons that seek to consume everything else?

It's like building two robots, except that one robot is programmed to kill the other one and burn down your entire house and laboratory, it doesn't make sense at all.

No, it can't be. I'm sure they'll reveal in the inevitable Light and Void expansion that the Void Lords and the Naaru (or whoever are the true Light Gods) have always existed (it was speculated in Legion that the Naaru were created by Elune, based on the Tears of Elune unlocking Xe'ra's core, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if this was retconned). They don't look designed by the First Ones one bit, and indeed they often threatened the Shadowlands (First Ones' creation). Same thing for the demons of the Legion, who were at war with the armies of Maldraxxus.

While I can buy that the Titans, Life, and Death are all made by the First Ones, since they are all allied in one way or another. Ardenweald and the Emerald Dream are two sides of the same cycle of death and rebirth, with the Winter Queen and Elune being sisters; and the Titans are very clearly mechanically-inspired, so it makes sense if they were literally machines built by the First Ones.

Because light needs darkness to shine.

Death needs life to take and make anima. Life is a hell of a lot more precious with the existence of death. Though I believe life should be a basic right for all. Shouldn’t need death to give it definition. What if death was an anomaly??

[Varodoc]

Because light needs darkness to shine.

Death needs life to take and make anima. Life is a hell of a lot more precious with the existence of death. Though I believe life should be a basic right for all. Shouldn’t need death to give it definition. What if death was an anomaly??

"Light needs darkness to shine" and yet I doubt there would be pockets of darkness in the realm of the Light.

This lore is extremely abstract and vague, if the Broker's word is to be believed (reminder that it was a First One's automaton who implied that the First Ones created everything). In actuality, I don't see how Light can't shine without Void and viceversa. Or are you saying that the Void Realm, where the Void Lords are, can't exist without the Light? That doesn't make sense.

[huth]

Zereth Mortis isn't implied to be the source of all things, just the place where afterlife realms are minted by celestial machinery overseen by the First Ones' servants and fabricators. The rest of the metacosm, such as the overarching forces of Light and Void, Life and Death, were likely more direct creations of these First Ones - and the beings that arose from them, like the Naaru or the Void Lords, owe the genesis to the First Ones but may not have been directly created as such. Zereth Mortis needs to be more or less automated because of the nature of its service, as new beings are constantly born and die, and new/personal afterlives need to be continually created to facilitate those beings, their civilizations, and what have you.

From what we're told, it seems it just "prints" houses and attendants for the dead, essentially. So it's really more of a maintenance facility for the Shadowlands.

Though i wouldn't be surprised if similar facilities existed for the other realms (not necessarily making stuff, but running basic "services"). Since the First Ones seem to have gone elsewhere, they'd need automatisation for everything to make sure things keep running correctly.

Because light needs darkness to shine.

Death needs life to take and make anima. Life is a hell of a lot more precious with the existence of death. Though I believe life should be a basic right for all. Shouldn’t need death to give it definition. What if death was an anomaly??

Life needs Death so things don't get completely overrun. Any self-replicating existence needs to end eventually, or you've got a major issue on your hands.

For that matter, you need Disorder to stave off stagnation.

- - - Updated - - -

"Light needs darkness to shine" and yet I doubt there would be pockets of darkness in the realm of the Light.

Darkness of the mind, not the body. Light is singleminded and dogmatic. Void is anarchic try-everything.

[Mace]

l
Life needs Death so things don't get completely overrun. Any self-replicating existence needs to end eventually, or you've got a major issue on your hands.

Although I’ve used that logic before. But it is also flawed. In an infinitely expanding universe, life can also infinitely propagate. Over population isn't a justification for death.


Death can simply become a a conquest of life.

For that matter, you need Disorder to stave off stagnation.

Except progress doesn’t need disorder - just passion or determination. Love has always been a better motivator than fear.

And creativity has always thrives in freedom and security rather than chaos.

Chaos can serve to stimulate progress and stave off stagnation but is not essential to it, it also can wipe out progress totally and create the worse type of stagnation impeding things so much they grind to a halt ir wiping everything out.

It has its uses but it isn’t essential to stage off stagnation or to ensure progress. Though it can be used for both

[Nathanyel]

Except progress doesn’t need disorder - just passion or determination. Love has always been a better motivator than fear.

And creativity has always thrives in freedom and security rather than chaos.

It's really hard to assign RL concepts to Fantasy extremes such as Order and Chaos, but I would describe Love and Creativity rather as benevolent aspects of Chaos, not Order. Very superficially put, Love makes you ignore pure logic, and when exercising Creativity, you deliberately let your imagination wander, instead of staying in the "tried and true" paths.

[DatToffer]

Except progress doesn’t need disorder - just passion or determination. Love has always been a better motivator than fear.

And creativity has always thrives in freedom and security rather than chaos.

Chaos can serve to stimulate progress and stave off stagnation but is not essential to it, it also can wipe out progress totally and create the worse type of stagnation impeding things so much they grind to a halt ir wiping everything out.

It has its uses but it isn’t essential to stage off stagnation or to ensure progress. Though it can be used for both

This discussion reminds me of a very old W40k god, whose only goal was to stop time.

Like, that was his idea of Order. A universe that stays still. Nothing moves, nothing changes.

An excess of Order could lead to extremes that would be just as dangerous as an excess of Disorder.

[olddog]

The First Ones are just Bigger Titans.

[Chend]

On the official forums, I keep seeing people complain that the reveal of 9.2 showed that gods like Elune and An'she were simply 3d printed by the first ones using some magic machine.

Where was this shown?

- - - Updated - - -

it was implied, but not outright confirmed, in the developer preview that the First Ones may have made everything.

That one developer literally said they made the entire universe.

[Powerogue]

I thought all it said was that Zereth Mortis was where the Afterlife realms were crafted. If they can shape dimensions like that they must be very powerful, but they never stated they created gods. As far as I know titans, gods, and planets still all came from the "big bang" of sorts of the collision between Light and Void in the Twisting Nether.

Maybe the logic is created afterlives = created the death pantheon = one death pantheon is a sister to elune = they made her too?

[Chend]

I thought all it said was that Zereth Mortis was where the Afterlife realms were crafted. If they can shape dimensions like that they must be very powerful, but they never stated they created gods. As far as I know titans, gods, and planets still all came from the "big bang" of sorts of the collision between Light and Void in the Twisting Nether.

Maybe the logic is created afterlives = created the death pantheon = one death pantheon is a sister to elune = they made her too?

They also went on to say that they created Azeroth, everything on it and the entire universe.

https://youtu.be/IRWIW2VxgGs?t=112