Best MMOs by Category

[Yriel]

I think ESO has the best questing. They have the perfect combination of many little seperated questareas with a strong story, twists and phasing down like no other MMO. I don't know where that would fit your categories, it's part storytelling but the ESO main story is lacking in the base game (though strong in most expansions and much better than FF14s basegame story) and it's part leveling.
Thinking about it i'd give best leveling to ESO, not only because of the great questing, you also have three massive leveling alternatives that make it much more enjoyable to level up alts.

[Fencers]

I think ESO has the best questing. They have the perfect combination of many little seperated questareas with a strong story, twists and phasing down like no other MMO. I don't know where that would fit your categories, it's part storytelling but the ESO main story is lacking in the base game (though strong in most expansions and much better than FF14s basegame story) and it's part leveling.
Thinking about it i'd give best leveling to ESO, not only because of the great questing, you also have three massive leveling alternatives that make it much more enjoyable to level up alts.

Hey that is a good call too. I enjoyed the questing in ESO quite a bit and it reminded me a lot of Daggerfall/Morrowind more so than the Skyrim/Oblivion model. There was less transparency in ESO quests than in those other games.

[Fencers]

You really love to try to invalidate everyone elses' thoughts and opinions with this "Other people think this, but I'm smarter than that." kind of babble, don't you?

Did you even read my posts on the matter? I didn't invalidate his opinions. I was not talking about the gameplay at all or the quality of it.

I am not going to consider your own insecurities because you might misunderstand something.

[Fencers]

No, you just love to jump in with, "WELL ACKSHUALLY" every time someone has an opinion on a game.

Yes, WoW's gameplay is extremely crisp and responsive. It gives players a good feeling of freedom, control and presence in the world compared to other MMOs. That's not some illusion, or conditioning, or something else for you to pick apart. It's something the game has been given good marks for over the years, even when people feel like other parts of the game are lacking.

You're being ridiculous. I replied to that fellow directly saying WOW was a (very) well-made video game. I even called the game excellent in its visual presentation.

If you want to believe something I did not say or it tickles your taint how I said it- that is your problem. I am not that concerned about it.

[Schmittay]

No, you just love to jump in with, "WELL ACKSHUALLY" every time someone has an opinion on a game.

Damn dude you got some kinda hate boner for Fencers or something? I haven't seen any of that from their posts.

[KrayZ33]

You are used to WOW, that is why.

Or maybe, instead of being "used" to it. It's more likey that he actually prefers it over the others that are different?
I think TERA combat felt way better than WoW's in every single aspect I can think of... and I only played TERA for 1 month while I played WoW for ... what is it now? 10+ years?

What makes you think this has anything to do with conditioning or what someone is "used" to.
How come FFXIV doesn't override what I feel for WoW when it comes to that, even though I didn't play BFA at all and was full time playing FFXIV? Pretty hot take you got there.

It's a really dumb take, tbh. It doesn't make any sense and doesn't represent reality in the slightest.

When The Division came out, I liked the gunplay and animations and responsiveness from the very first second, even though I didn't play a lot of games like it, as I'm not a third-person-gamer in the first place.
Compared to that, I had played Rainbow Six a bit and games like that. They didn't feel as good either.
You are making it sound as if new games don't have a chance to "feel" a certain way because WoW(or whatever game that person has played) ruined it for them or something, instead of taking the far more obvious reason: They don't "feel" good because they are poorly done in that aspect.

[Fencers]

Or maybe, instead of being "used" to it. It's more likey that he actually prefers it over the others that are different?

Yes. I touched on preference in my previous post as well. That is a factor of acclimation.

What makes you think this has anything to do with conditioning or what someone is "used" to.

This is what the data we have has revealed over the years. When we do gaming focus groups and qualitative testing on games; this is the most common cause and reasoning for player preference in the presentation and control categories of focus testing. Acclimation is the biggest factor in player preference for X or Y games within the same market genre; players get used to X or Y game's presentation and reactivity. It's that simple.

Some games are very good at presenting their reactivity, such as World of Warcraft, and that is the reason why many players take to the game's control and visual acuity well. World of Warcraft didn't perform some voodoo when a player presses the W key. They just communicate the action of pressing the W key very well.

How come FFXIV doesn't override what I feel for WoW when it comes to that, even though I didn't play BFA at all and was full time playing FFXIV? Pretty hot take you got there.

Perhaps you did not acclimate to FF14 as well as you did to WOW? By your own admission, you said you played WOW for a long time.

The number of games you played, what you played first or second, and even how long you played any particular game has does not necessarily affect preference.

It's a really dumb take, tbh. It doesn't make any sense and doesn't represent reality in the slightest.

Well, that's rather rude and combative. If you want to believe you somehow bucked human psychology as some objective ubermensch of gaming- go right ahead.

I work on these games and in this particular area of focus testing for a living. It is the absolute reality as I stated previously.

When The Division came out, I liked the gunplay and animations and responsiveness from the very first second, even though I didn't play a lot of games like it, as I'm not a third-person-gamer in the first place.
Compared to that, I had played Rainbow Six a bit and games like that. They didn't feel as good either.

Okay, you preferred the animation and responsiveness of one game over another. I am not sure what you are stating here?

You are making it sound as if new games don't have a chance to "feel" a certain way because WoW(or whatever game that person has played) ruined it for them or something, instead of taking the far more obvious reason: They don't "feel" good because they are poorly done in that aspect.

Not at all actually. New games take off all the time within their genre and test well within their potential customer base. Two Point Hospital comes to mind, though I didn't work on that game directly another team at my company did, customers really liked that game in focus testing over genre competitors. It was a wholly new property at the time.

There is a whole swath of ranges in customer preferences. As I said, it doesn't really come into play what a customer had played beforehand or after very much or necessarily is determined by time played alone. It comes down to how each game communicates its visual reactivity to players that is the biggest factor of acclimation. Some games (software in general actually) do better or worse than competing products in aggregate at that communication to the user. Many things affect acclimation- it's not just one aspect.

[Katchii]

WoW has set a bar for action input and server reactions. And it's a pretty high one, IMO.

Getting into the acclimation thing, because it absolutely plays into how people feel about the games they play, I'm not sure how much of it is getting used to something that's "good" or "bad" or having less tolerance for things that aren't as high quality.

WoW is undeniably one of, if not THE, best MMOs out there when it comes to action input and server reaction...the combat feels incredibly fluid, with very little, if any, input lag. Other games have similar feeling combat, but aren't quite there.

I can say that my distaste for other games that don't hit that mark are not because they're "not WoW" (acclimating) but because I expect them to have similar polished and fluid combat feeling to WoW and don't hit that mark. Like LotRO, the input lag and server recognition for some actions isn't terrible, but there IS a delay sometimes. Playing a class that can't cast on the move, I'll stop and within half a second try and cast and still get an error message saying I can't cast while moving. I won't ever get that in WoW, or even in FFXIV (at least I've never felt it in FFXIV).

Maybe I think that feels BAD because I got so used to it in WoW...but I don't think of it as a WoW thing as much as a high quality thing that WoW does. Because other games do it too, WoW is just the most prevalent and well known MMO that does it.

[KrayZ33]

Okay, you preferred the animation and responsiveness of one game over another. I am not sure what you are stating here?

Why not? Because that's was quite literally the whole point.
I liked something and thus I prefer that kind of thing, like a normal human being.
Sometimes it's not rocket science and just about what people like and dislike and the overall quality of a game.

"I'm conditioned to quality game design and dislike shitty programming and unresponsive controls."
Or you can leave out the whole "I'm used to it" and just point it out how it is: "I prefer good controls over bad inputs and delays"

It's the reason why I like TERA combat, even though just about everything else about that game was, simply put, garbage in my opinion.
Or maybe I'm just "conditioned" to dislike TERA's grindy gameplay designs. Am I right?


You are also looking at objective truths and not just at emotions.
If I press a button and the game translates that into an animation that gets the result in 2 seconds later, it's bad game design and detrimental to combat and actions in this game, especially if it is as reactive as MMOs usually are. Just to name an example.

When games don't reach at least WoW level of quality in that regard, they can be safely considered bad in that aspect as it will bring problems along the lines. It doesn't matter that I still enjoy FFXIV combat content even though it's an unresponsive mess. I can get by playing it because the whole game is designed with it in mind - with it being crap at combat responsiveness that is.
It's still absolutely weak in that regard and no matter how long I will play FFXIV, nothing will ever change that as long as I get reminded of the fact that I live in the 21th century and know that this is a technical limitation that has been solved decades ago in other games.

[Zelk]

FF blows wow out of the water with dungeons and raids, like it's not even close the experiences

I peronally hate how dungeons are in FFXIV. Really bland environment designs with absolutely pointless trash mobs.

[Fencers]

Why not? Because that's was quite literally the whole point.
I liked something and thus I prefer that kind of thing, like a normal human being.
Sometimes it's not rocket science and just about what people like and dislike and the overall quality of a game.

Okay? I am still not sure why you are getting at here in reply.

"I'm conditioned to quality game design and dislike shitty programming and unresponsive controls."
Or you can leave out the whole "I'm used to it" and just point it out how it is: "I prefer good controls over bad inputs and delays"

The "bad" is subjective though. As I already told you, customers that prefer one genre competitor such as Game A to another will claim Game B is "bad". Players of Game B will just as often describe Game A as "bad" in turn when these same categories.

Different sets of players equally describe the competing products as "bad" and their preferred product as "good"- there is no object qualifier of what is good or bad. The factor in the customer's feelings toward a product is their acclimation to the product in specific genre categories.

It's the reason why I like TERA combat, even though just about everything else about that game was, simply put, garbage in my opinion.
Or maybe I'm just "conditioned" to dislike TERA's grindy gameplay designs. Am I right?

Perhaps.

You are also looking at objective truths and not just at emotions.

Oh no, not at all. That is a misreading. It is all subjective in how a customer feels about anything in the game. I literally admonished the notion of an objective view on gaming in the very post you replied to.

If I press a button and the game translates that into an animation that gets the result in 2 seconds later it's bad game design and detrimental to combat and actions in this game, especially if it is as reactive as MMOs usually are. Just to name an example.

That isn't game design, firstly. Game design is just how the rules of the game operate. Not how well those rules operate in action. Game design can be purely theoretical and never actually exist as something that can be played in reality. That is the gameplay, which is the design made into action.

It would not be bad game design either in of itself if an action was delayed from player interaction to representation. There are some experimental video games that exist that have no visual feedback at all. They are just black screens, for example. Not even text.

In the context of a mass-market game, what you are saying is be a reasonable expectation, of course. I think it's important not to disregard the distinction in game design, gameplay, and control & responsiveness. As these are distinct aspects of a game with a lot of variance within the medium developers may use in differing ways.

When games don't reach at least WoW level of quality in that regard, they can be safely considered bad in that aspect as it will bring problems along the lines. It doesn't matter that I still enjoy FFXIV combat content even though it's an unresponsive mess. I can get by playing it because the whole game is designed with it in mind - with it being crap at combat responsiveness that is.
It's still absolutely weak in that regard and no matter how long I will play FFXIV, nothing will every change that as long as I get reminded of the fact that I live in the 21th century and know that this is a technical limitation that has been solved decades ago in other games.

That is fine. These are your subjective preferences. Nothing at all wrong with that point of view.

I personally think it is a testament to being well made when players feel their actions are represented in the game in a satisfactory way. That some games do this to more frequent degree than others is speaks well of the design, gameplay and responsiveness of those games.

[KrayZ33]

Can you show like... any kind of "proof" of what you are actually saying?

And I'm not talking about the words I used because I simply don't know the english equivalent of it...

When a game wants to express something and it fails at doing so (like... fast paced combat?), it's not well made in that regard and it's an issue and thus "bad" what's the matter if it's the gameplay or game design that is the reasons for that. No amount of talk from you would possibly change my mind unless you can provide something I could read that says otherwise and explains it properly, maybe? (As it's probably a computer science subject, it's obviously somewhat complex but there is probably like... an article or something?)
I really don't care about what your threshold is and when you actually start to view something as bad. By your logic, it almost sounds that everything is well done and there are only opinions about something and nothing is truely bad or worse than somethin else.

Not sure how you do your job but I quite frankly doubt it's good when your work groups come up with bs like that, but oh well...
"AcTuAlLy, the game is good, they are just used to something eeeelse" That sounds like a great help for those who want to use your data of... whatever you were talking about with gamers.

[Tyris Flare]

Going back to GW2 after many years, I have to say that it's still amazing on how much they innovated on, and the "heart" experience is still a more satisfying way to interact with the world to me than quests no one reads or even stuff like ESO where there's 90 seconds of dialogue for what amounts to a "run across town" quest.

[Very Tired]

I peronally hate how dungeons are in FFXIV. Really bland environment designs with absolutely pointless trash mobs.

Yeah, they honestly felt the same to ESO dungeons and the one dungeons I managed to do in New World....

Completely mindless, feeling like there's no actual soul put into the content. Like they were just thrown together with little effort because its something all MMOs are supposed to have.

[Zelk]

I don't htink you've done many dungeons if that's your opinion tbh lol. And to be fair, isn't most trash in any dungeon mostly pointless?

I mean I'm sat here amazed you think otherwise to be honest. FFXIV as a whole has a real problem with terrain.

[Schmittay]

I peronally hate how dungeons are in FFXIV. Really bland environment designs with absolutely pointless trash mobs.

Well...that's an odd opinion lol. The dungeon environments are usually very well received. Did you only play early game?

[Schmittay]

XIV dungeons are largely there as a story delivery device first and as gameplay "content" second.

And that's fine, but they do tend to have a "seen one, seen them all" feel with regards to design, layout, pacing, etc. Just pull 2-3 trash packs to a wall, do a boss that's mostly dodging red zones, repeat 2 more times.

Basically. And I'm fine with that, but I can see it being a negative for those reasons to others.

[KrayZ33]

I mean I'm sat here amazed you think otherwise to be honest. FFXIV as a whole has a real problem with terrain.

Yeah - in open world, but dungeons usually look quite amazing because they aren't limited as much.

There is nothing really wrong with this, or rather, it's not "bland":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na-cExYo5_g

[Divada]

Best story in an MMO is stillThe Secret World for me. HOW it's told is certainly up for debate, but the story/lore itself? TSW is still king, may it rest in peace.

[Katchii]

Best story in an MMO is stillThe Secret World for me. HOW it's told is certainly up for debate, but the story/lore itself? TSW is still king, may it rest in peace.

I like it too, but the game play just feels so floaty, it's hard to get passed that. And the progression system, while it's a great lateral progression type thing, doesn't feel great IMO, because it feels super grindy.