Poll: Is it healthy to gate flying behind "pathfinders"?

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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I think a compromise is still good as opposed to starting with flight or never having flight.

    But I think the Pathfinder requirements are increasingly archaic and have morphed from a way to "ensure you have done the content as intended first" to "a way to artificially incentivize you to do treadmills you otherwise wouldn't."
    "increasingly archaic"? LOL!! Do you actually play the game? If you do I'm guessing you started playing recently because anyone can tell you that the requirements for Pathfinder in the last few xpacs are/were a damn pushover compared to WoD's absurd requirements back in the day.

    https://www.wowhead.com/draenor-pathfinder-guide

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    Maybe they could move it up a little from where they do now, but what I DO NOT WANT is flying actually at release of a new expansion. It was crappy, and horribly immersion breaking to fight your way in on a quest, just to watch two guys land on the boss from the air, kill him and take off, leaving you standing there with your thumb up your ass. (Cata, if you don't recognize what I'm talking about.)

    So, while I'm all good with making it simpler, I do not want automatic flying at release of a new area or expansion.
    So either you fly too or you accept that your playtime is not worth more than others who dont wanna waste time for the sake of "immersion" in a 17 y old video game.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei View Post
    "increasingly archaic"? LOL!! Do you actually play the game? If you do I'm guessing you started playing recently because anyone can tell you that the requirements for Pathfinder in the last few xpacs are/were a damn pushover compared to WoD's absurd requirements back in the day.

    https://www.wowhead.com/draenor-pathfinder-guide
    Draenor Pathfinder had somewhat steep requirements but you knew them way in advance. Since this expansion was rather light on content anyway most people had those quotas fulfilled by the day it was announced.

    Ofc it sucked for late joiners, to the point of never bothering with it if you skipped this xpac or joined late.

  4. #124
    Yes to Pathfinder... IF YOU CAN DO IT DIRECTLY AFTER RELEASE. So no more: unlocked next patch crap, instead when you reach Pathfinder, you unlock flying, period. So Loremaster, Explorer, reputations on revered and that's all.

  5. #125
    is there a way to tell how close i was to unlocking flying?
    "We will not compromise our standards to release a title before it is ready."
    WoW T.W.O ( The Wars Over )

  6. #126
    Being stuck to the ground sucked in mop aswell.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, but in TBC, the basic flying speed was jut 60%. You would actually go faster on land than on air. Max flight speed was only max-level and cost a lot of gold, too.
    I am fine with that. Max level only and behind a minor gold sink. But if you had the coin it was there as soon as you hit cap.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    At least at release, you had to get to 70 before you could fly, and 1000g wasn't cheap back then. By then you had fought through most of the zones already.
    And I am okay with that. Either have it be a gold sink or make you do every zone story quest + map it out before you can unlock it and then max level only. So that way you are only getting to use it for World Quests.

  8. #128
    I'm OK with parts of Pathfinder, not others. I think it's fine to gate flying behind story quest completion and zone exploration. The excuse we are always told is that they want to to play the game the way they intended first. So that's why I'm OK with story quests & exploration gating. By definition, that accomplishes the goal of the reason we are given to gate flying.

    What I'm not OK with is gating flying behind an arbitrary amount of daily quests or an arbitrary amount of time. I don't think rep via dailies should be required for flying, there's no logic tying flying to "x number of dailies", and gating it behind "time" just "because", makes even less sense.

    "We're OK with you flying...just not yet. Maybe next Spring."
    - "Why?"
    "Because."

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  9. #129
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    I am fine with that. Max level only and behind a minor gold sink. But if you had the coin it was there as soon as you hit cap.
    The amount of gold the second flight skill cost was not "minor" in any way, shape or form back in the day.

    Even just the basic flying wasn't exactly cheap, as a lot of people would still be using ground mounts for some time even after reaching maximum level at the time. IIRC, it took me 2-3 months to finally get enough gold to unlock max flight speed.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by ImpalerEU View Post
    No. They should give you everything ASAP. Then you can complain about having everything.
    It's not first time, when I hear it. Strange logic. If "everything" is so small, that I would need to complain about it, so devs need to stretch this "everything" as much, as possible, then it's obviously not my problem.

    Just to clarify, "bad content" is as viable for complaining about lack of content, as actually "running out of content". So, when developer assumes, that he can increase amount of content via stretching it - he makes mistake. To some degree? Yeah, may be it can work. But overstretching is as bad, as having small content. The greatest example - is Draenor. Yeah, it lacked content. But even that small content was good enough to keep me busy for long enough period of time. Actually, till release of 7.2. And it's claimed, that xpacks like BFA and SL have lots of content, but unfortunately I have nothing to do there.

    Overall it's about gating enjoyment. First I have to earn my right to enjoy my game, then I can start enjoying it. Problem is - what is ratio between this two? If I need to suffer most of the time in order to enjoy game for short period of time - then, you know, it's not worth playing.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-11-17 at 08:10 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Athulua View Post
    Draenor Pathfinder had somewhat steep requirements but you knew them way in advance. Since this expansion was rather light on content anyway most people had those quotas fulfilled by the day it was announced.

    Ofc it sucked for late joiners, to the point of never bothering with it if you skipped this xpac or joined late.
    Aside from the three Tanaan reps, two of which were gated, and the third of which was pretty rough for people in dodgy gear (which means the casuals who only do solo open world stuff, and thus probably 'need' flight the most) but which could be ground out in a day if you got in a group and just went for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The amount of gold the second flight skill cost was not "minor" in any way, shape or form back in the day.

    Even just the basic flying wasn't exactly cheap, as a lot of people would still be using ground mounts for some time even after reaching maximum level at the time. IIRC, it took me 2-3 months to finally get enough gold to unlock max flight speed.
    I got a loan off a guildie to buy the basic flight, and that let me mine the Nagrand ore circuit much more efficiently, and so after a about six weeks I'd paid them back and made enough to buy epic flight and a mount, and by then I'd also ground out the CE rep for the CE hippogryph so that was my first epic mount. Not many people on my server had them, so it was pretty cool (and it's still one of my favourite mounts, and I'd love a hi-poly hi-res version that wasn't all fancied up the way Blizzard does all the mounts these days).

  12. #132
    No. FF14 does this too and I fucking hate it.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The amount of gold the second flight skill cost was not "minor" in any way, shape or form back in the day.

    Even just the basic flying wasn't exactly cheap, as a lot of people would still be using ground mounts for some time even after reaching maximum level at the time. IIRC, it took me 2-3 months to finally get enough gold to unlock max flight speed.
    Guess I was just better at farming as I had it within the first month so it didn't seem too bad to me. But the precedent was set that it was possible with its first introduction to have max lvl flying immediately at level cap.

  14. #134
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    I got a loan off a guildie to buy the basic flight, and that let me mine the Nagrand ore circuit much more efficiently, and so after a about six weeks I'd paid them back and made enough to buy epic flight and a mount, and by then I'd also ground out the CE rep for the CE hippogryph so that was my first epic mount. Not many people on my server had them, so it was pretty cool (and it's still one of my favourite mounts, and I'd love a hi-poly hi-res version that wasn't all fancied up the way Blizzard does all the mounts these days).
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    Guess I was just better at farming as I had it within the first month so it didn't seem too bad to me. But the precedent was set that it was possible with its first introduction to have max lvl flying immediately at level cap.
    The point is that just setting flight to be available right away with gold the moment you hit level cap is not feasible anymore in this day and age, due to how easy and fast it is to make gold nowadays, unless Blizzard prices it at... what? 500k gold or more, maybe a million?
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  15. #135
    The equivalent of 5k gold back in TBC would probably feel like something around 500k, I'd say. You can earn it, but it'll take weeks of actual effort (or skill playing the AH).

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The point is that just setting flight to be available right away with gold the moment you hit level cap is not feasible anymore in this day and age, due to how easy and fast it is to make gold nowadays, unless Blizzard prices it at... what? 500k gold or more, maybe a million?
    The gold was never really meannt as a barrier (other than fast flight in TBC). Every other expansion seemed pretty much designed to give you twice the amount of gold you needed to buy it just by leveling.

    This isn't really a problem though. All the best zone design was done during the flight years. All blizzards reasons against fight are the very reasons modern zone design is bad.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    lol... physics enabled flying? i can ride a fucking flying magic carpet... why should that abide by gravity physics when it clearly never has in any form of media?
    Cause even if the carpet is magic, the user would still have to abide by those laws.. it goes from full speed to zero instantly or crashes into a tree, the user would still keep moving cause of inertia.

    This and casting in WoW is just a pet peeve of mine. I don't like how mounts behave in general(like ground mounts should not be able to turn 180 degrees instantly either or come to a full stop instantly) and how, when casting you put away your weapons.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    The equivalent of 5k gold back in TBC would probably feel like something around 500k, I'd say. You can earn it, but it'll take weeks of actual effort (or skill playing the AH).
    The problem is, of course, that these days you can just have someone else earn it for you, legally. So high prices like that are really being set as "How many tokens should it cost?" which is well enough when it's something being priced for the whales, but not for something like flight that everyone can be expected to need.

    That's why I've said I'm okay with flight being gated to max-level plus a short delay. I'm okay with that short delay (and I do men short - 2-4 weeks) in order that the super-fact levellers at the beginning of an expansion don't hit cap, get flight, and start spoiling everyone's fun and excitement. A few weeks grace for the majority of the players to hit the cap, then flight should become available to anyone who hits cap. Alts maybe should not be able to fly right away, but I'd want that removed at the first patch too - by then anyone with a main is going to have lost any sense of mystery and done all the exploring they care to do, so there's no harm in just letting them fly on alts as they level.

    Flight becoming account-side when you got it was one thing they did right in WoD. The other was not having 'no fly' zones other than Ashran.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    Cause even if the carpet is magic, the user would still have to abide by those laws.. it goes from full speed to zero instantly or crashes into a tree, the user would still keep moving cause of inertia.

    This and casting in WoW is just a pet peeve of mine. I don't like how mounts behave in general(like ground mounts should not be able to turn 180 degrees instantly either or come to a full stop instantly) and how, when casting you put away your weapons.
    So, when a character runs, should they also have a turning circle, and a stopping distance? If not, you're being inconsistent. If so, well I don't think you'll find many supporters for your position.

  19. #139
    SWTOR doesn't have flying, and yet, getting around really isn't that big a deal thanks to teleports on short cooldowns, and lots of taxis, so its definitely possible to make a game where ground travel is convenient and interesting.

  20. #140
    Yes*****



    But I want to add, I think pathfinder itself should be added sooner.

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