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  1. #1841
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    On this note: Blizzard's decision to "Sterilize" their game of all even remotely sexual content is a tone deaf response to the recent sexual harassment suits. Blizzard should be fixing sexual harassment IN THE WORK PLACE. Replacing sexy ladies with fruit bowls isn't an answer to the presented problem, but they did it anyway.

    If game companies sterilize their games because of sexual harassment suits, that's them being idiots. There are plenty of companies that make edgy, sex filled games that don't have a workplace filled with sexual harassment.
    Ignoring that there is still sexual content in game with even gigolo’s being added, Multiple devs have come out and said the changes aren’t because of the lawsuit but are things they wanted to do for a while but didn’t have the power to do until now and that it’s literally all they can do while the higher ups ignore making actual improvements to the work place.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2021-11-17 at 03:35 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #1842
    I think it's hillarious that now the investors and BOD are calling fir Kotick to resign, as well as two long standing Board members

    - - - Updated - - -

    It's pretty safe to assume that ATVI is heading towards a massive purge and restructuring, The BOD is going to clean house . Heads rolling etc. Can Activision Blizzard survive? My hunch is it will barely , but I see Blizzard being sold off. I think the Feds are going to dig deep in to Koticks practices. Audits, practices and inquiries are all going to be put under the microscope. Look for a tsunami of execs fleeing the sinking ship
    Last edited by Dystemper; 2021-11-17 at 05:49 PM.
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  3. #1843
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    I think it's hillarious that now the investors and BOD are calling fir Kotick to resign, as well as two long standing Board members

    - - - Updated - - -

    It's pretty safe to assume that ATVI is heading towards a massive purge and restructuring, The BOD is going to clean house . Heads rolling etc. Can Activision Blizzard survive? My hunch is it will barely , but I see Blizzard being sold off. I think the Feds are going to dig deep in to Koticks practices. Audits, practices and inquiries are all going to be put under the microscope. Look for a tsunami of execs fleeing the sinking ship
    Nah Activision Blizzard is a massive company, Bobby will resign and get his super platinum parachute, they will pay off whatever lawsuits as they have done in the past. Most of these allegations have been settled, the Feds have no teeth they haven't in a long long time, the company will get small fines but that's about it. The supreme court has gutted workers rights and regulatory bodies only give small fines comparatively to profits.

    Blizzard is not the problem so jettison them out won't restore any image as the WSJ pointed out this is a problem throughout the company.

  4. #1844
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Lying by omission is still lying, actually. Especially if it has to do with presenting a false image to investors, as the SEC suit demonstrates.
    Which is not at all you have been doing; you've been actively promoting a position that a toxic work environment is fine as long as you personally get a desired product.
    Kinda cringe, as said.
    Thank you for clarifying love, I wasn't aware that in the eyes of the law that is the same. "toxic environment", you are going to have to clarify what you are referring to here because not to put words in your mouth or anything, do you think that the men in there are just rampantly disrespecting women? Are you referring to the unpaid OT hours? The closed studios? A combination of all or just the first part? I am honestly asking because I need to know what you refer to when you say Toxic environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    And here's where your actual agenda comes out. Rofl.
    No, sweetheart; the evil SJWs are not coming for your video games by trying to make video game development less of a toxic shithole.
    My actual agenda? You guys(the ones that just responded and used that same type of logic) think this is some scooby doo show where there is a mistery to uncover?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I guess the legal filings and HR reports are just hearsay in your world..

    But if you want something more solid then that how about the person who fucken killed themselves cause of it all. That also happen under Bobby shitbag Kotick's watch and would get any other boss removed on the spot.
    HR reports are still hear say, you have to prove the report. Have you ever worked before where drama is a constant? I can tell you stories that would shock you about HR stories that were never true.

    Lastly

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    You took the long route to get there but you finally revealed your true agenda.
    You care more about video games than people..
    I already answered this one to Edge- when I started posted in this thread. All I care is about blizzard games not the drama behind a company I dont work with.
    If you and me work on the same company, u are a family member, u are a friend in need, hell if you are running from thief's and need my help I got your Back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    We get it, you like bootlicking.
    Can you be a bit more mature? In your mind you really think I am trying to get Kotick sempai to notice me? LOL.

  5. #1845
    Quote Originally Posted by Tietoso View Post
    HR reports are still hear say, you have to prove the report. Have you ever worked before where drama is a constant? I can tell you stories that would shock you about HR stories that were never true.
    Love how you ignored the fact someone is fucken dead over how bad they was harassed.

    Keep licking that boot cause you care more about games than people. Done talking to what is clearly a fucken troll.
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  6. #1846
    Quote Originally Posted by Tietoso View Post
    "toxic environment", you are going to have to clarify what you are referring to here because not to put words in your mouth or anything
    It's so weird how people with very firm opinions on topics like this apparently haven't bothered like, reading about them before having these firm opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tietoso View Post
    do you think that the men in there are just rampantly disrespecting women?
    Per earlier reporting with "drunken cubical crawls" that harassed women, many of the abusers/harassers being actively protected while the women were left to rot, heavy drinking encouraged/pressured on women at parties to exploit them in their inebriated state, the multiple rapes and sexual assaults reported like...as a general rule, yeah.

    Note: Before you jump on the #NOTALLMEN, this isn't saying "every single guy working there", but that this was absolutely the culture. And many of the female employees have backed this up through social media posts of their experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tietoso View Post
    Are you referring to the unpaid OT hours?
    That's a part of it too, mostly for contract workers who the AKB group are fighting to get more protections for (and winning).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tietoso View Post
    The closed studios?
    This has never come up and I'm not sure why you'd think it would be "toxic".

    Quote Originally Posted by Tietoso View Post
    I am honestly asking because I need to know what you refer to when you say Toxic environment.
    Did you miss the CA lawsuit that like, prompted this thread and the dozens of pages of discussion that followed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tietoso View Post
    HR reports are still hear say, you have to prove the report.
    Again, "hearsay" is only relevant in the court of law, and is still evidence even then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tietoso View Post
    Have you ever worked before where drama is a constant? I can tell you stories that would shock you about HR stories that were never true.
    Except that it's not just "HR didn't believe me". We have reports like, again, the Sledgehammer guy that was determined to have harassed a staffer and HR recommended firing them. Most of the reporting is that HR didn't even bother pursuing many of the complaints made to them, or turned the blame back around on the victim.

  7. #1847
    why do they still have defenders?

    the more info that comes out the more blizzard(and activision kinda) looks more and more pathetic.
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  8. #1848
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    why do they still have defenders?

    the more info that comes out the more blizzard(and activision kinda) looks more and more pathetic.
    People seem to dismiss HR reports, state lawsuits and whatnot as hearsay. Yeah those things were all just totally made up under some kind of conspiracy to what...disenfranchise white men? Remove Kotick from power? It is very unclear what would satisfy these people. Are you asking to see the actual reports? Has it occurred to you that much of that evidence that you seek is confidential and not open to the public?

    This is one of the most insane things of the last decade, not just in this case. People dismissing reports and whatnot as fake because they don't see the actual physical evidence themselves.
    Last edited by infinitemeridian; 2021-11-17 at 08:50 PM.

  9. #1849
    Just keeps getting deeper. But I mean.. lets be fair here and say who really though Bobby was clean?

    But covering for people that were RAPING people? Ok ok.. sexual discrimination can often take a lot of investigation. Doesn't make it right in anyway but you got to get your ducks in a row. It has two sides of the story. You get things right and punish someone that the investigation shows did wrong. Punishment can vary on what was said and done. You seperate the parties and figure it out. RAPE? You don't sit on that shit. You put the dude on administrative leave and call the police in one swoop instantly. What their investigation uncovers you roll with and probably part ways anyway for the horrible deal you just dragged the company though as management. At that point it is just do you get the separation package and some back pay if your innocent while we sign NDAs for each other or do you get nothing when they are putting you behind bars and the company points out how they called the police the second they heard about it.

  10. #1850
    Im pretty sure that most multinational CEOs, shareholders and high management folk are -regardless of gender- psycho/sociopaths.
    All of them.

    Nobody with a slight of humanity could justify these with clear conscience, yet most of them are MASTERS on how to hide them - hence, psycho/sociopaths. By definition.

    I say let's put ALL leaders to a psychological test - and deny them any leadership positions. Watch the world turn awesome again.
    (and yes, these mofos convinced us that time is money "friend".. no it's not and I'm getting sick that every single human gets a pricetag on it)

  11. #1851
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Just keeps getting deeper. But I mean.. lets be fair here and say who really though Bobby was clean?

    But covering for people that were RAPING people? Ok ok.. sexual discrimination can often take a lot of investigation. Doesn't make it right in anyway but you got to get your ducks in a row. It has two sides of the story. You get things right and punish someone that the investigation shows did wrong. Punishment can vary on what was said and done. You seperate the parties and figure it out. RAPE? You don't sit on that shit. You put the dude on administrative leave and call the police in one swoop instantly. What their investigation uncovers you roll with and probably part ways anyway for the horrible deal you just dragged the company though as management. At that point it is just do you get the separation package and some back pay if your innocent while we sign NDAs for each other or do you get nothing when they are putting you behind bars and the company points out how they called the police the second they heard about it.
    Bobby gets paid the big money for a reason he saw the guy as key to getting Call of Duty out on time which is more important to him than you know people. When even the HR at Activision say fire him you know it's got to be bad but not bad enough for Bobby to prioritize over money.

  12. #1852
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Bobby gets paid the big money for a reason he saw the guy as key to getting Call of Duty out on time which is more important to him than you know people. When even the HR at Activision say fire him you know it's got to be bad but not bad enough for Bobby to prioritize over money.
    Right, Bobby is a PoS. Pretty establish for a while but harshly confirmed now. I get his job is to make money but the line does exsist that can be crossed.

  13. #1853
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    Yeah my bad, debating with addicts doesn't work, should have seen that coming.
    Quoting you from the other thread as it got closed.

    I don't even play the game I want to, but it's pretty crap right now. All people are saying is that people care more about the state of the game than they do the state of the workers, which is true of a lot of things. When a new phone comes out, you don't look at the horrible conditions they're made in - you look at the camera performance, battery life, chip speed, etc. When a new video game console comes out, no-one cares that they're linked to slave labour - it's all about what launch titles is has.

    It's an incredibly cynical opinion to have of people, but I'm willing to bet the majority would rather play a 10/10 expansion made by scumbags than an average expansion made by saints - the only reason people seem to be leaving the game so much lately is because we've had average at best expansions made by scumbags.

  14. #1854
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    Maybe it was out already, but I'm just reading that they didn't even pay Jen Oneal the same as Ybarra for her co-leadership position. HOW? How are they in this much shit and miss such an easy point; not only that, they turned their positive PR stunt into major PR damage. How incompetent can one company even be?

  15. #1855
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    Maybe it was out already, but I'm just reading that they didn't even pay Jen Oneal the same as Ybarra for her co-leadership position. HOW? How are they in this much shit and miss such an easy point; not only that, they turned their positive PR stunt into major PR damage. How incompetent can one company even be?
    They were working under their prior contracts, and she was getting paid less than him (they had different roles). She flagged this to HR multiple times to request that they resolve the pay disparity, but apparently was not responded to until after she resigned and they offered her and Ybarra contracts with equal pay.

    It's a pretty impressive amount of stupidity that just adds more and more ammo to the argument that Activision used her as a token PoC/woman in leadership.

  16. #1856
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Ignoring that there is still sexual content in game with even gigolo’s being added, Multiple devs have come out and said the changes aren’t because of the lawsuit but are things they wanted to do for a while but didn’t have the power to do until now and that it’s literally all they can do while the higher ups ignore making actual improvements to the work place.
    That says a lot about the kind of devs we're dealing with here and what one can expect when giving them "free reigns" over even little things like this. They wanted to remove portraits of women in a fictional world full of genocide, conquest and other things that would be considered horrible in real life. Talk about an understanding of priorities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ctulhu 2020
    On this note: Blizzard's decision to "Sterilize" their game of all even remotely sexual content is a tone deaf response to the recent sexual harassment suits. Blizzard should be fixing sexual harassment IN THE WORK PLACE. Replacing sexy ladies with fruit bowls isn't an answer to the presented problem, but they did it anyway.
    Pretty much this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    You took the long route to get there but you finally revealed your true agenda.

    You care more about video games than people..
    Most people buy video games to be entertained. Now if someone is acting inappropriately and breaking the law while creating said games, then they need punishing in accordance to the law and this is the most common way people who buy games see this. If consumers prioritized people whenever they pick a product off the shelf, then very few products - if any - would be picked up in the first place. They'd be picking a chocolate up while crying for the people who work in the cocoa farms. That's not how these very devs live their lives and that's not how the majority of manking behaves. Such a view would paralyze consumers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's a pretty impressive amount of stupidity that just adds more and more ammo to the argument that Activision used her as a token PoC/woman in leadership.
    I'd be surprised if anyone genuinely thought that there was some other reason behind her promotion.



    Everything they do publically for the past few years serves one agenda only and that is to show how "diverse" they are, thinking that's enough to have a good public image; game quality, player support and ultimately working conditions are secondary priorities. As irony would have it, Blizzard used to be making games with the most iconic and diverse characters in the industry and nobody was having to point it out or pat them on the back over it; we all loved it, didn't notice it and embraced it because it simply came down to them taking inspiration from popular themes, the producers' imagination and I dare say innovation too.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-11-18 at 01:05 AM.

  17. #1857
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I'd be surprised if anyone genuinely thought that there was some other reason behind her promotion.
    Which fuckin sucks, because she's absolutely qualified as shit for the job and has kicked ass running Vicarious Visions.

  18. #1858
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    That says a lot about the kind of devs we're dealing with here and what one can expect when giving them "free reigns" over even little things like this. They wanted to remove portraits of women in a fictional world full of genocide, conquest and other things that would be considered horrible in real life. Talk about an understanding of priorities.



    Pretty much this.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Most people buy video games to be entertained. Now if someone is acting inappropriately and breaking the law while creating said games, then they need punishing in accordance to the law and this is the most common way people who buy games see this. If consumers prioritized people whenever they pick a product off the shelf, then very few products - if any - would be picked up in the first place. They'd be picking a chocolate up while crying for the people who work in the cocoa farms. That's not how these very devs live their lives and that's not how the majority of manking behaves. Such a view would paralyze consumers.



    I'd be surprised if anyone genuinely thought that there was some other reason behind her promotion.



    Everything they do publically for the past few years serves one agenda only and that is to show how "diverse" they are, thinking that's enough to have a good public image; game quality, player support and ultimately working conditions are secondary priorities. As irony would have it, Blizzard used to be making games with the most iconic and diverse characters in the industry and nobody was having to point it out or pat them on the back over it; we all loved it, didn't notice it and embraced it because it simply came down to them taking inspiration from popular themes, the producers' imagination and I dare say innovation too.
    In 2018 they had the "Women at Blizzard" panel at Blizzcon. Surprise surprise that lines up pretty well with when California started the lawsuit 3 years ago.

  19. #1859
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    That says a lot about the kind of devs we're dealing with here and what one can expect when giving them "free reigns" over even little things like this. They wanted to remove portraits of women in a fictional world full of genocide, conquest and other things that would be considered horrible in real life. Talk about an understanding of priorities.
    Given that no one was doing any of the things you listed while people were actively sexually harassing people and then putting content in game likely making light of the fact id say it just tells us that the dev's don't like assholes poking fun at them while harassing them.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  20. #1860
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They were working under their prior contracts, and she was getting paid less than him (they had different roles). She flagged this to HR multiple times to request that they resolve the pay disparity, but apparently was not responded to until after she resigned and they offered her and Ybarra contracts with equal pay.

    It's a pretty impressive amount of stupidity that just adds more and more ammo to the argument that Activision used her as a token PoC/woman in leadership.
    Even worse than that.... THEY contacted HR, like, both leaders of Blizzard, and nothing was done. It's a fucking farce.

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