Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lady Atia]

If they just updated the trees in the old world, I'd probably be a happy camper..

Honestly they just need to apply the Arathi/Darkshore formula to all zones from Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms and maybe even Northrend if they have the ressources. HD revamp, Rare spawns that drop mounts and toys, treasures, worldquests and maybe one bigger story zone questline that tells us what the current status quo of said zone is that leads into a Dungeon. Together with pet battles this would create evergreen content and a fresh way to level new alts.

Other things I would like to see in 10.0 (but I know we prolly won't get it ...):

- HD update for Classic/TBC mounts with additional new tints to farm in the world
- Covenant Allied Races (either as pre-order bonus or for 9.2.5)
- Solo Q for RBG's (I don't really care about arena, but there should be a way to get rating in battlegrounds without having to form a group manually. Make it so that only solo players q together and change the rating formula and you can revive the classic bg feeling)
- Class Skins that use the underlying mechanics of a class to make something new that would be too niche for a full class so you don't have to worry about balancing. F.e.:
Hunter -> Dark Ranger
Monk -> Blademaster
Druid -> Tinker
Warlock -> Necromancer
Shaman -> Spellblade
Paladin -> Voidknight
Mage -> Azuresworn (basically blue fire)
Demonhunter -> Night Warrior for Alliance (use Tyrandes star form instead of Metamorphosis)
-> Shadow Hunter for Horde (use Troll Loa forms instead of Metamorphosis)
- a third spec for Demonhunter that uses a bow (inspired by Hearthstone)
- Seasonal Elite sets for M+ (I wouldn't mind if they re-use the pvp appereances tbh ...)

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MOP should be ahead of Cata. Does it say when those games were scored? I remember playing MOP and a lot of people didn't like it back then but then realised that it was actually really good.

For me, legion will still always be my favourite expansion solely down to class fantasy

Cata had a great start but the last patch was quite bad outside of the Dungeons.

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Yes! New feature for 10.0: Trees you can walk on.

I wanted to say we already have that in Korthia but these weird trees have parts were you definitively can't walk on them and just fall of randomly ....

[Hitei]

There were new westfall terrain textures in BfA beta, if those are the first signs (that I remember) it might imply this having started during Legion.

I'll add my vote to before Legion, since Legion (alpha) itself contained a whole bunch of updated creature models from the old world.

[Dracullus]

Expansion reveal mid 2022? Are you folks nuts? That's a late 2022 release.

In the condition the game is in, with a coming patch that is nothing more than staying on the course the game has trekked so far, Blizzard is pretty much agaisnt a wall.

They either rush the next xpac out and deal with the aftermath of another half-assed product, or they take their sweet time polishing it while also dealing with the consequences of having their players play a..... empty patch.

If 9.2 is similar to 9.1, people will have waaaaay more to do than in 6.2 or even 5.4. We simply live in world with M+ and cosmetic game 10x bigger than in older expacs (which is evergreen, so content stack up if you don't complete it). And somehow game not only survived both these 14 months droughts, but also both WoD and Legion after this had huge launch hype, even bigger than BfA and SL.

But main problem is that many people are simply burned out with modern WoW formula (7.0-9.2). People need some break (especially streamers that played 24/7 15 years and whine that nothing is exciting anymore), devs need solid expac with fresh ideas.

[Ersula]

Bull, you can sustain an MMO with 200k subs easily, even less, especially if you filter them down to shop goblins and the hardcore addicts that plague this forum. I also think your 1.5m is rather high as an implied number of current (retail) subs. Then you also have alot of the classic subs that currently prop up the subscriptions anyway.

Yeah, like I said, exactly just like Hots.

How long has it been since HotS got new content? 2 years? Everquest hit those numbers & Sony sold it. That's the model I based my statement on.

[Kiivar86]

Demonhunter -> Night Warrior for Alliance (use Tyrandes star form instead of Metamorphosis)
-> Shadow Hunter for Horde (use Troll Loa forms instead of Metamorphosis)

Feels a bit odd for a Blood Elf to do that, honestly. Especially given history between them and trolls.

Problem is I don't really know what a BE would use instead.

[Hitei]

Yeah, like I said, exactly just like Hots.

How long has it been since HotS got new content? 2 years? Everquest hit those numbers & Sony sold it. That's the model I based my statement on.

HotS is nothing like an MMO. You can't compare their business models because their basic structure is completely different.

[draugril]

Feels a bit odd for a Blood Elf to do that, honestly. Especially given history between them and trolls.

Problem is I don't really know what a BE would use instead.

Anything Phoenix-based would be awesome. And I hate Elves.

[Lady Atia]

Feels a bit odd for a Blood Elf to do that, honestly. Especially given history between them and trolls.

Problem is I don't really know what a BE would use instead.

Of course the Shadow Hunter skin wouldn't be usable by blood elfs, but by Trolls and Zandalari Trolls. I would keep class skins totally seperate from their parent classes, similiar to Allied Races. You would be able to use a race change and switch to a class skin, or you have to level a new alt.

[Hugnomo]

Honestly they just need to apply the Arathi/Darkshore formula to all zones from Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms and maybe even Northrend if they have the ressources. HD revamp, Rare spawns that drop mounts and toys, treasures, worldquests and maybe one bigger story zone questline that tells us what the current status quo of said zone is that leads into a Dungeon. Together with pet battles this would create evergreen content and a fresh way to level new alts.

Other things I would like to see in 10.0 (but I know we prolly won't get it ...):

- HD update for Classic/TBC mounts with additional new tints to farm in the world
- Covenant Allied Races (either as pre-order bonus or for 9.2.5)
- Solo Q for RBG's (I don't really care about arena, but there should be a way to get rating in battlegrounds without having to form a group manually. Make it so that only solo players q together and change the rating formula and you can revive the classic bg feeling)
- Class Skins that use the underlying mechanics of a class to make something new that would be too niche for a full class so you don't have to worry about balancing. F.e.:
Hunter -> Dark Ranger
Monk -> Blademaster
Druid -> Tinker
Warlock -> Necromancer
Shaman -> Spellblade
Paladin -> Voidknight
Mage -> Azuresworn (basically blue fire)
Demonhunter -> Night Warrior for Alliance (use Tyrandes star form instead of Metamorphosis)
-> Shadow Hunter for Horde (use Troll Loa forms instead of Metamorphosis)
- a third spec for Demonhunter that uses a bow (inspired by Hearthstone)
- Seasonal Elite sets for M+ (I wouldn't mind if they re-use the pvp appereances tbh ...)

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Cata had a great start but the last patch was quite bad outside of the Dungeons.

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I wanted to say we already have that in Korthia but these weird trees have parts were you definitively can't walk on them and just fall of randomly ....

I love, love, love these ideas. On covenant races yeah, pretty straightforward, I've been wanting them since the announcement.
Your ideas for class skins are also really exciting! Demonhunters' really stood out to me, the idea of faction based night warrior/ shadowhunter is amazing! That's an incredible idea to me.
Dark Ranger - Hunter, Necromancer - Warlock, Tinker - Druid, are all great ideas as well that would fit very well. And they're still different enough to explore their own lore niche. Blademaster orcs, Gnomes and Goblins tinkers, Forsaken dark rangers, troll shadowhunters, etc. These are all very iconic to their respective races and cultures, it would be amazing to see them playable.

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Of course the Shadow Hunter skin wouldn't be usable by blood elfs, but by Trolls and Zandalari Trolls. I would keep class skins totally seperate from their parent classes, similiar to Allied Races. You would be able to use a race change and switch to a class skin, or you have to level a new alt.

Yep, completely agree.

[Ersula]

HotS is nothing like an MMO. You can't compare their business models because their basic structure is completely different.

Actually you can because like a subscription game, the money has to validate the product. And for every person who doesnt spend money on a moba is a person who spends way too much money on it. Wow is about at double the engagement Hots had when Blizzard decided it didnt deserve development

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Still think people are weirdly obsessed with the idea that 10.0 was preplanned. But then again I guess whatever makes you cope I suppose. Certainly, I agree that there's evidence to point in that direction. But to make it seem like that is the truth is absurdity to me.

Personally I think whatever the result, we're getting another rushed expansion with less working staff after its launch and another repeat of Shadowlands. Except add a bit more chaos when the scope of it is much larger than 5 zones and 8 dungeons.

[huth]

Yeah, like I said, exactly just like Hots.

How long has it been since HotS got new content? 2 years? Everquest hit those numbers & Sony sold it. That's the model I based my statement on.

Everquest is still getting new expansions. That's not really helping your argument.

[Lady Atia]

Still think people are weirdly obsessed with the idea that 10.0 was preplanned. But then again I guess whatever makes you cope I suppose. Certainly, I agree that there's evidence to point in that direction. But to make it seem like that is the truth is absurdity to me.

Personally I think whatever the result, we're getting another rushed expansion with less working staff after its launch and another repeat of Shadowlands. Except add a bit more chaos when the scope of it is much larger than 5 zones and 8 dungeons.

Well, they did say that they pre-plan Expansions up to 2 in advance. Legion and WoD were done roughly at the same time as well if I remember it correctly. The idea would be that the arts and environment teams are preplanning expansions though, not the systems and encounter teams.

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I love, love, love these ideas. On covenant races yeah, pretty straightforward, I've been wanting them since the announcement.
Your ideas for class skins are also really exciting! Demonhunters' really stood out to me, the idea of faction based night warrior/ shadowhunter is amazing! That's an incredible idea to me.
Dark Ranger - Hunter, Necromancer - Warlock, Tinker - Druid, are all great ideas as well that would fit very well. And they're still different enough to explore their own lore niche. Blademaster orcs, Gnomes and Goblins tinkers, Forsaken dark rangers, troll shadowhunters, etc. These are all very iconic to their respective races and cultures, it would be amazing to see them playable.

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Yep, completely agree.

Aww thanks! <3

[Tyris Flare]

The game I imagined that we might have in twenty years is very different from the game we actually got. There have been a few moments of realizing that potential, but by and large...

This speaks to the very different experience from players. I remember leveling a bunch of chars in vanilla, of course (especially the fun rush to level on pvp servers on new realms that ended up dead in a few months), but almost all my memories are from raiding. All the relationships I formed (and still have and still play with!) were from raiding. I even got married to someone I met....while raiding.

And I guess to me, even in 2021, wow is still basically about raiding. It hasn't really changed that much in the core sense other than the fact I play dramatically less in 2021 than 2005.

[draugril]

This speaks to the very different experience from players. I remember leveling a bunch of chars in vanilla, of course (especially the fun rush to level on pvp servers on new realms that ended up dead in a few months), but almost all my memories are from raiding. All the relationships I formed (and still have and still play with!) were from raiding. I even got married to someone I met....while raiding.

And I guess to me, even in 2021, wow is still basically about raiding. It hasn't really changed that much in the core sense other than the fact I play dramatically less in 2021 than 2005.

WoW does raiding best. Always did, always will. I suppose my mistake was hoping that the scope of the world would expand, but it never really has. We've always just shifted set pieces and did the same stuff there that we did previously. Yes, the filesize of the game might be larger, there might be dozens of new zones... but I don't think the world has ever truly grown.

I remember the housing discussions. Mounted combat was a dream - aerial combat, specifically, seeing the dragons and gryphons and wyverns above. We're still waiting for the naval combat. We're still waiting for true open world PvP with zone control. Siege warfare, claiming territory for your guild. So much of what made WarCraft what it is to a lot of us in the beginning; raid combat doesn't begin to encapsulate those hopes. Even if it is fantastic.

WarCraft always had potential to be more than what it is. But Blizzard was content to rest on their laurels. And now we have... this.

[Kiivar86]

Of course the Shadow Hunter skin wouldn't be usable by blood elfs, but by Trolls and Zandalari Trolls. I would keep class skins totally seperate from their parent classes, similiar to Allied Races. You would be able to use a race change and switch to a class skin, or you have to level a new alt.

Ah I see. Then doesn't that kind of leave BE DHs in the lurch? NE DHs get a new skin but BEs are out of luck?

If I'm understanding it correctly anyway.

[Nyel]

Class skins are great for fans and players, but they’re an absolute nightmare for Blizzard. The effort they have to put into this would be immense for little to no gain overall. As much as I would love to have these sub-classes for specific races, it’s not going to happen simply because it’s an incredible amount of work which most likely will result in less than a simple new flashy class would.

[Miross]

Class skins are great for fans and players, but they’re an absolute nightmare for Blizzard. The effort they have to put into this would be immense for little to no gain overall. As much as I would love to have these sub-classes for specific races, it’s not going to happen simply because it’s an incredible amount of work which most likely will result in less than a simple new flashy class would.

Welll activision blizz is not a indie company they do have budget and the manpower to accomplish this and many more , the fact that the "king" of MMORPG barely receives any content(i'm not talking about 2020/2021 btw) is kinda crazy

[Lady Atia]

Ah I see. Then doesn't that kind of leave BE DHs in the lurch? NE DHs get a new skin but BEs are out of luck?

If I'm understanding it correctly anyway.

It would be more like NH's getting a new class while Trolls would have access to the Shadow Hunter instead. Blood Elfs could get Necromancer and Spellblade or maybe even Tinker.

[Hitei]

Actually you can because like a subscription game, the money has to validate the product. And for every person who doesnt spend money on a moba is a person who spends way too much money on it. Wow is about at double the engagement Hots had when Blizzard decided it didnt deserve development

You can't, because they are fundamentally different game types. A moba can be casually switched to maintenance mode because to begin with a moba's content is from the same matches over and over, kept fresh by virtue of the players themselves creating variance. The lack of development still leaves the basic game format and all content that has been added and the continued replayability of match-based format. All it needs financially is scattered cosmetics and the very, very occasional new character, which is 95% of what it was working with to begin with.

An MMO survives on a stream of new content. When you switch off its development, you are left with whatever was the most current thing and the small bit of the mmo that isn't irrelevant at that level of progression. It cannot survive on just some cosmetics and the rare, occasional small dungeon because the whole system is predicated on progression. Likewise its financial system is predicated on regular drops of sizable content to keep people subscribed to playing, because that is the source of its variation and replayability, not player-derived new experience.

Wow's last couple expansions sold better than ever before and its numbers consistently jump back to high and then slowly fall on a two year cycle, a profitability that is wholly dependent on expansion development. You are fooling yourself if you think it's anywhere close to some form of "maintenance mode" or removal of large-scale content patches and expansions.