Greed is a major issue this time around in SOM.

[luciano]

This is why they changed the game to personal loot, because people are assholes. Not much you can really do about that.

I think people forget that the game evolved, and those evolution choices were driven by player behavior. This isn't really new stuff -- like you said, it's literally why the system changed before.

More to the OP's point, though, is that these behaviors seem a lot more wide-spread than the first time around. It's like there are 100x more selfish people now than 15 years ago. Maybe society changed, maybe I just notice them more now, maybe it's some other reason. IDK, I'm not a sociologist.

[jackofwind]

I think people forget that the game evolved, and those evolution choices were driven by player behavior. This isn't really new stuff -- like you said, it's literally why the system changed before.

More to the OP's point, though, is that these behaviors seem a lot more wide-spread than the first time around. It's like there are 100x more selfish people now than 15 years ago. Maybe society changed, maybe I just notice them more now, maybe it's some other reason. IDK, I'm not a sociologist.

People are also just much more aware about the various levelling breakpoints in Vanilla and the key items to chase.

OP's example was Corpsemaker - an axe that is suboptimal for Shaman levelling but is nearly a must-have item for optimal Warrior levelling. Is there any surprise that people don't want to spend time competing for that axe against a player who really doesn't need it?

This is levelling gear - it's not for prestige, it's not rare, it's not for big dick meters, it's exists only to speed up the process of getting from 1 to 60 (unless you're twinking, which you aren't at this point in the release). It really shouldn't be surprising at all that people don't want to be in a group where they see good levelling items go to people who don't maximally benefit from them.

[Kehego]

People are also just much more aware about the various levelling breakpoints in Vanilla and the key items to chase.

OP's example was Corpsemaker - an axe that is suboptimal for Shaman levelling but is nearly a must-have item for optimal Warrior levelling. Is there any surprise that people don't want to spend time competing for that axe against a player who really doesn't need it?

This is levelling gear - it's not for prestige, it's not rare, it's not for big dick meters, it's exists only to speed up the process of getting from 1 to 60 (unless you're twinking, which you aren't at this point in the release). It really shouldn't be surprising at all that people don't want to be in a group where they see good levelling items go to people who don't maximally benefit from them.

corpsemaker isn't great cus as a warrior you don't really have instant attacks to make use of the speed till mid 30's.
shaman get windfury AT 30 and would start onebanging mobs way before warriors could

but yk what who cares, both y'all gonna be waiting basically 4 seconds between swings hoping something fun happens

[valax]

Never discolse what you want to roll on , just do it. If it doesn't drop , no loss you finish the run , if it drops and you win it good for you they might kick you but you leave with the loot , If it drops and you lose it you either go on or they kick you and you go again with next group .

Telling people that you want the most precious loot in the dungeon has no upside in any situation.

[jackofwind]

corpsemaker isn't great cus as a warrior you don't really have instant attacks to make use of the speed till mid 30's.
shaman get windfury AT 30 and would start onebanging mobs way before warriors could

but yk what who cares, both y'all gonna be waiting basically 4 seconds between swings hoping something fun happens

You get Corpsemaker as a Warrior for Overpower since it can nearly 1-shot things. Shaman levelling is optimal as Elemental from 40-onwards and roughly equal to enhancement before that if you cycle mana regen after pumping with Dagger AAs. 2H Windfury levelling is basically just a rule-of-cool trap and a meme, it's not optimal.

But yes, it's a level 29 axe lol. Who the fuck really cares.

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Never discolse what you want to roll on , just do it. If it doesn't drop , no loss you finish the run , if it drops and you win it good for you they might kick you but you leave with the loot , If it drops and you lose it you either go on or they kick you and you go again with next group .

Telling people that you want the most precious loot in the dungeon has no upside in any situation.

When items are reserved you swap to ML before killing the boss though

[Ghanir]

I'd have to agree with my fellow commenters reasoning that you have all the power to change what is ailing you on the matter. Esp. @jackofwind with his reasoning that although you'd prob. love to have the axe at this moment in time it is not for the reason that you absolutely must have to in order to bear with the leveling thereafter; if you are hellbent on rushing to 60 then you should go Elemental post-40 (which you're not too far off from when you can equip Corpsemaker).
If you are hellbent on getting said axe however then you shouldn't be in such a rush to anyways so just take your time and find a group that caters more towards your ideals.

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With that said it shouldn't come as a surprise that with the more cramped spacing of content in SoM that you see this kind of behaviour earlier than expected

[crusadernero]

I think people forget that the game evolved, and those evolution choices were driven by player behavior. This isn't really new stuff -- like you said, it's literally why the system changed before.

More to the OP's point, though, is that these behaviors seem a lot more wide-spread than the first time around. It's like there are 100x more selfish people now than 15 years ago. Maybe society changed, maybe I just notice them more now, maybe it's some other reason. IDK, I'm not a sociologist.

There is an argument that society overall is more selfish/Self-sentered than before. That can be applied in many areas of society, so you aint really wrong on it. This of course can strongly apply to a videogame(especially MMORPG) were you compete with others for loot. Often strangers. The threshold to actually be happy that someone got a item you wanted can be really steep for alot of people. Chances are, they wont meet these people again anyway. So people get mad instead of "Congrats! Thats a nice item." and move on.

On topic: This is probably also a communication issue. Strangers join a grp with various roles. In classic, tanks tank in the dungeons yes - but they also quest out in the world. If a good DPS item drop, ofc they want it. Healers heal the dungeon yes - but they also quest, therefore any DPS item that drops is very useful. This means literally every item is of use for everyone in the grp. Who doesnt want a item that makes the questing(big part of classic) much better?

Here lies the challenge - for strangers to communicate and have a common understanding of what to expect going into a dungeon. Who gets what loot? Why? why not? Theres a general concesus with these things, but its not a rule. thats why personal loot is a thing in retail. Blizzard just removed the interaction(communication) between players and let the game itself handle loot.

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With that said it shouldn't come as a surprise that with the more cramped spacing of content in SoM that you see this kind of behaviour earlier than expected

yeah agree. With SoM being on a shorter lifetime, this will happen alot. Imagine the loot drama when people start raiding.

[Fitsu]

I think people forget that the game evolved, and those evolution choices were driven by player behavior. This isn't really new stuff -- like you said, it's literally why the system changed before.

More to the OP's point, though, is that these behaviors seem a lot more wide-spread than the first time around. It's like there are 100x more selfish people now than 15 years ago. Maybe society changed, maybe I just notice them more now, maybe it's some other reason. IDK, I'm not a sociologist.

Society isn't any different, groups are just way easier to find and 99.9% of players are skillful enough to blast dungeons so you've got no reason to "play nice". Before you was more inclined to be friendly so that you could have people to play with especially if they were any sort of good because the average skill level 15 years ago was much lower. The benefits of being friendly simply outweighed the benefits of being selfish, and now they don't.

It's sad to say, but when playing with strangers people are rarely going to choose the less selfish route unless there's a reason to.

[valax]

You get Corpsemaker as a Warrior for Overpower since it can nearly 1-shot things. Shaman levelling is optimal as Elemental from 40-onwards and roughly equal to enhancement before that if you cycle mana regen after pumping with Dagger AAs. 2H Windfury levelling is basically just a rule-of-cool trap and a meme, it's not optimal.

But yes, it's a level 29 axe lol. Who the fuck really cares.

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When items are reserved you swap to ML before killing the boss though

Oh well then , you simply don't join runs where ppl HR stuff. Never seen for low level dungeons myself though.

[SinR]

a not so long time ago I was leveling an Enhance Shaman. I'd run Mara for the ring all the time. DPS, Offheal, did it all. Every time I'd tell the lead "hey i'll come heal but I want a shot at the ring" and made my intent to roll need known before we got inside. 99% of the time they're cool with it. Occasionally I'd get "no" but meh whatever. the time it did drop I was healing and rolled need, won it. Rogue bitched about it and had some choice words for me after the lead kicked him out.

[Ladey Gags]

This is all because western society has largely created entitled manchildren whose only sense of accomplishment comes from video games. These people are so desperately empty inside that they project their selfish sociopathic urges onto multiplayer video game communities and turn around and act like it’s normal human behavior. These people have been conditioned to believe that displaying narcissism is a desirable trait and normal human behavior. These entitled manchildren are infesting every aspect of society now and it is only getting worse, and will continue to get worse when looking at just how degenerate and narcissistic young people are today. Consumerism as a whole is mostly to blame. Children grow up being bombarded with THINGS and are conditioned to expect their THINGS, other people’s THINGS be damned. Welcome to the future.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Same issues there, genius. Tanks feel this sense of "entitlement" you're speaking of and didn't feel anyone should be rolling against them on corpsemaker because they were tanking and felt they deserved it. You honestly believe I didn't put effort into building groups only to encounter numerous road blocks? Face palm.

I hope you tried, but there are plenty of whiners who don't, they just feel entitled to be in anyones group. Saw it all the time in game, on this forum, on the official forums, etc.

[T-34]

Gotta remember mate, there are other people on the other ends of the characters we play with. They have lives and time and goals and definitions of fun. YES- *MANY* of them are pricks, but when you meet those, just /ignore 'em and move on with life. Yeah sadly that does also mean accepting the possibility that you wont get what you're after. That too, is just part of the game. But be like Charlie, stack the deck.

Exactly!
To keep insisting to play with people that "you" consider "pricks" is irrational.
To keep expecting that other people should change their idea of fun and "what is right" to yours is irrational.

[Beet]

These kind of things has always happend in wow. Personally i've gotten plenty of groups thats been of no issue.

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This. Blizzard changing it to personal loot is all the evidence you need that its been like this since launch of wow.

Ehhh not so much. It didn’t become bad until around the end of Wrath. If you ninja looted an item back in the day you were known. People also weren’t picky about groups since servers back then held a maximum of 2500 players compared to classic servers that held up to 10k. So there was more incentive to go with anyone you could take to these dungeons. Or you may not go at all.

Reminds me of a funny story. A guy in my friends guild on Dark Iron in 2006 ninja looted amazing stuff off their first Sapphiron kill(I believe it was Saph) so they flooded his mailbox with blacksmith hammers for days preventing him from successfully transferring since he was trying to. Someone would be up watching him on post ready to flood more hammers once he deleted his current ones. The guy went ballistic on the forums and expected pity. He lost his new membership role in the guild he was hoping to transfer to join. That was justice.

[Askyl]

Sounds like original launch to me

[marulol]

Imagine playing a game that's been rereleased 3 times now.

[Askyl]

Imagine playing a game that's been rereleased 3 times now.

Imagine being so self insecure you have to dislike people who've found their hobby =(

[shise]

So be smart and say that you do not care about the loot but want quick XP. Then roll need on whatever you actually need.

[kranur]

It's not just SoM .. TBC is also on a similar boat, but worse. And I remember evrn retail with personal loot ... you'd get people yelling at you if you refused to trade your personal drops lol.

Things like: "LFM SP (H), Nether res, trinket res, unwanted res" is sadly not uncommon.

[Bramickias]

Reserved runs have always been a thing ... at max level when aiming at pre-raid of even straight up BiS pieces.
But reserving leveling gear in lvl 25 dungeons??? That's hilarious.

Try making groups yourself and advertise that it's "no reserve" and if that fails, just drop the game, because there will be 10x more players doing that at max level.