Russia Detonates Anti Satellite Missile Creating Dangerous Debris

[Kaleredar]

We were first on the moon actually.

Which is why US tried to hard to at least get "first man on the Moon" achievement.

First satellite, first man in space, first moon landing... all USSR.

That's nice sweety.... But yeah, NASA is still waiting up there and nothing you said actually disproves my point. Still no Ruskies on the moon.

And I mean I could go into how getting human beings to an extraplanetary surface and then getting them back alive is vastly more impressive than hucking a chunk of metal into orbit for a few months or throwing a dog up to into low orbit to die a horrid death, but suffice to say I can guarantee you that NASA is making it back to the moon before the USSR does... 'cuz the USSR doesn't exist anymore.


So maybe NASA (And every other space agency on the planet, for the record) know what they're talking about here. The "everyone says Russia fucked up... except Russia" is not a strong defense.

[Shalcker]

For the record, I am fully aware that the US, on multiple occasions, have blown shit up in space. We've tackled the idea of space debris as a problem, fair enough. The issue in this case remains "unwarned civilians had to make Dex saving throws". Which, to the best of my knowledge, the US never risked and if we did it was reckless then, too.

Everyone deals with space debris, Russia included.

Everyone has to make "dex saving throws" against other satellites and debris. That is part of usual operations. Despite being low risks are still real.

There are estimated 128 millions objects at 1 cm and below in orbit, so ISS is designed to survive those - more so at critical parts, including living quarters - and uses maneuvers to avoid larger trackable debris.

Highest risk to ISS was from tight debris field right after test because then maneuver capability could be insufficient.
But that field passed over harmlessly at safe distance as calculated.

Once debris field is spread out - as it did - individual risks are a lot lower and a lot more manageable.

As another example, tomorrow ISS will pass within 5 km from Falcon 9 debris. Closer then Kosmos-1408 debris ever did so far.

[Breccia]

Everyone deals with

*ahem*

ISS is sitting on a firing range

Once you declare an international group of unarmed civilians target practice, the rest of your opinion can be summarily handwaved. "At least we missed" is not the defense you think it is when you shot at them and did it on purpose.

[Shalcker]

Once you declare an international group of unarmed civilians target practice, the rest of your opinion can be summarily handwaved. "At least we missed" is not the defense you think it is when you shot at them and did it on purpose.

You keep saying something that is entirely untrue.

Noone shot at "unarmed civilian target" - the target was defunct military satellite.

By this logic every SpaceX launch targets "unarmed civilian targets" - and noone should care they didn't hit any yet, the risk is always there!

[Breccia]

You keep saying

*ahem*

ISS is sitting on a firing range

Once you have announced that civilians are suitable for target practice, the rest of your argument can be summarily handwaved. By the way, SpaceX isn't launching military weapons, Russia did.

[Shalcker]

Once you have announced that civilians are suitable for target practice, the rest of your argument can be summarily handwaved. By the way, SpaceX isn't launching military weapons, Russia did.

SpaceX does launch military satellites.

Yes, handwaving is all you have since you have no arguments.

[Breccia]

SpaceX \

*ahem*

ISS is sitting on a firing range

It's clear you're going to continue the viewpoint of "it was okay for Russia to risk the lives of international civilian scientists" and trying, unsuccessfully mind you, of defending that with things like "someone else launches satelites" --- which is off-topic, nobody is angry Russia launched a satelite, satelites aren't designed to explode and kill people, please post constructively. And I'm really not a fan of your post which amounted to "if Russia had killed someone, we'd help pay for the funeral".

This conversation is over. Russia's actions were dangerous, reckless, and incompetent. Once you defend them by claiming the civilians were perfectly valid targets, the rest of your defenses can be summarily handwaved. Just pretend I'm doing it from now on.

[Shalcker]

Russian actions are proportional and justified, and added risk is perfectly manageable.

There is nothing to discuss.

[Orange Joe]

Russian actions are proportional and justified, and added risk is perfectly manageable.

There is nothing to discuss.

No they aren't.


There is nothing to discuss.

[XDurionX]

There is nothing to discuss.

Okay, it's over guys, everybody please leave.

[Daedius]

Use super magnets to gather them all!

[caervek]

*ahem*

ISS is sitting on a firing range

You've posted that incomplete quote six or seven times as far as I can see (you know spam/flaming is against the rules yeah?), and from what I can tell your rage seems to be caused by your misunderstanding of it's meaning. He's not saying that the ISS is a target for weapons, he's pointing out that weapon tests are conducted in space/orbit (by many nations not just Russia) and that the ISS is essentially sitting in a firing range where things will be fired near but not at it.

This has been true of most space stations and never really a problem, I agree that the Russians should have been more thoughtful and perhaps delayed the launch or something so the ISS crew didn't have to sit around in the lifeboats for two hours in case something happened. But it's not like they were ever in danger and the debris has now dispersed like it does for every anti satellite missile test.

This whole thing is just mountains being made of mole hills >.>

- - - Updated - - -

Use super magnets to gather them all!

Spacecraft are usually constructed of mainly non-magnetic elements.

[Breccia]

You've posted that--

He flat-out said that it didn't matter that an unannounced weapon test was close enough to ISS that they had to sprint for the escape pods, and blamed the international group of unarmed civilians for standing where Russia wanted to do its weapon tests. What you've offered is not a defense. In fact, there isn't a defense. And you know that, because "it's not like they were ever in danger" is flat-out false. It was over in the first post. And no, "it's okay because Russia missed" doesn't mean they weren't in danger. It just means they fired a gun wildly into a crowded school but didn't happen to hit any children. They don't get bonus points for that.

What Russia did was dangerous, reckless, and incompetent. Nothing you've said comes close to countering that. Because there is no counter to that.

[Shalcker]

He flat-out said that it didn't matter that an unannounced weapon test was close enough to ISS that they had to sprint for the escape pods, and blamed the international group of unarmed civilians for standing where Russia wanted to do its weapon tests.

They had to sprint there because they had no available calculations for results of that test other then "satellite broke up" - where fragments are going, how many of them there were and so on.

Those who did test knew exactly where they are firing, where their target will be and where debris will go, and already calculated it in a way that will never put ISS in any danger.

And they were correct too.

What you're saying is "Because we're were so frightened by gunshot sounds means your shots were irresponsible" - even though barrel was firmly pointed away from you the whole time, and all you have to worry about now is not to slip on bullet casings (of which there are already hundreds of thousands to millions).

[caervek]

It just means they fired a gun wildly into a crowded school but didn't happen to hit any children.

A better analogy (if you insist on using schools) is that somebody fires a gun at a target in their back yard and hits it, then at a school a mile away a teacher hears the shot and instructs the children to get under their desks.

What Russia did was dangerous, reckless, and incompetent.

It was none of those things, it was a calculated and well planned strike on a disused satellite that posed no risk to any existing or planned space missions, the same thing Russia and others have done numerous times previously.

Nothing you've said comes close to countering that. Because there is no counter to that.

The fact you have set your mind on believing the media hype and have no interest in the truth, doesn't change the reality of the situation. They were never in any danger, in fact they're currently in more "danger" from much closer SpaceX debris, but no US news agency's/politicians are flaming Elon Musk because it doesn't make as good soundbites :P

[Breccia]

A better analogy

Since you are continuing to defend Russia's approach to using unarmed civilians as target practice, I don't see a good-faith conversation going any further.

[caervek]

Since you are continuing to defend Russia's approach to using unarmed civilians as target practice

Technically it's not possible for me to continue to do something I haven't done. But congrats on a correctly assembled straw man I guess...

I don't see a good-faith conversation going any further.

This right here is what is wrong with the internet today, so many people are unwilling to accept when they are wrong and instead just decide to ignore or refuse to communicate with people for pointing out facts they don't like. It's sad.

[Milchshake]

Russia says outloud that it wants to bully more satellites.

The Kremlin warned it could blow up 32 GPS satellites with its new anti-satellite technology, ASAT, which it tested Nov. 15 on a retired Soviet Tselina-D satellite, according to numerous news reports.

Russia then claimed on state television that its new ASAT missiles could obliterate NATO satellites and “blind all their missiles, planes and ships, not to mention the ground forces,” said Russian Channel One TV host Dmitry Kiselyov, rendering the West’s GPS-guided missiles useless. “It means that if NATO crosses our red line, it risks losing all 32 of its GPS satellites at once.”

They have Cosmoball now, so no need to stream Disney+ anymore.

[Santti]

Russia says outloud that it wants to bully more satellites.

The Kremlin warned it could blow up 32 GPS satellites with its new anti-satellite technology, ASAT, which it tested Nov. 15 on a retired Soviet Tselina-D satellite, according to numerous news reports.

Russia then claimed on state television that its new ASAT missiles could obliterate NATO satellites and “blind all their missiles, planes and ships, not to mention the ground forces,” said Russian Channel One TV host Dmitry Kiselyov, rendering the West’s GPS-guided missiles useless. “It means that if NATO crosses our red line, it risks losing all 32 of its GPS satellites at once.”

They have Cosmoball now, so no need to stream Disney+ anymore.

Great plan. That would create a fuck-ton of debris that would no doubt destroy more satellites than intended, including their own. Not to mention the space station, that lucked out from having 1 satellite blown up. Rest of the world would be ever so grateful towards Russia.

Not even Russia is that stupid. This is just empty sabre-rattling. A baby, excited for his new toy.

[Ashnazg]

Great plan. That would create a fuck-ton of debris that would no doubt destroy more satellites than intended, including their own. Not to mention the space station, that lucked out from having 1 satellite blown up. Rest of the world would be ever so grateful towards Russia.

Not even Russia is that stupid. This is just empty sabre-rattling. A baby, excited for his new toy.

Not so much saber rattling as a tool of deterrence that falls short of nuclear annihilation but still presents a significant enough problem that it might be enough to deter NATO aggression.