Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The underclass was already there and has been there since the end of the civil war. Racist social conservatives have kept them in place.
    It looks like they still did better under them then under "enlightened" Democrat leadership though.

    Why shouldn't i see it as "Democrats keeping them in place" as well?

    So you acknowledge that it at least worked for some people?
    It's like pointing to billionaires and saying "See, American Dream is alive!"
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2021-11-24 at 02:57 PM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    It looks like they still did better under them then under "enlightened" Democrat leadership though.

    It's like pointing to billionaires and saying "See, American Dream is alive!"
    That's only because we didn't have easy access to data back then.

    That is the GOP talking point. Fortunately we have modern data tools like the GINI Coefficient to say its wrong.

    And since you did an edit:
    Why shouldn't i see it as "Democrats keeping them in place" as well?

    Because they passed things like CRA and the VRA. The former helps prevent people from losing their jobs, the latter gives them a voice in politics. The Dems at least since then have been trying to help people. Not always effectively but its far better than the GOP policy of tax cuts and corporate welfare while corralling the racist social conservative vote to gain power.
    Last edited by Ivanstone; 2021-11-24 at 03:15 PM.

  3. #103
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Because they are destroying jobs they had without creating any substitutions.

    See Detroit as example of same thing happening within cities. Decades after car industry jobs being disappearing things didn't get better.
    That's a deflection. Nothing about what you said suggests the creation of an "underclass". You're inserting that. Out of nowhere.

    And guess what? Detroit had Democrat mayors since 1962.
    I wasn't aware mayors controlled the national economic system.

    You're making a ridiculous argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    As i said above, to me "Democrats help you" seems to create permanent underclasses.
    Still haven't made even an attempt to explain how.

    The "permanent underclass" is an intended creation of the American economy. Democrats consistently fight to ameliorate that, while Republicans entrench it. You're gaslighting people.


  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's a deflection. Nothing about what you said suggests the creation of an "underclass". You're inserting that. Out of nowhere.
    When people are losing jobs and thus move into underclass -> underclass is created. For coal miners underclass is created as direct result of Democrat policies. "In pursuit of greater goals", but that doesn't diminish the point.

    And then once underclass is there Democrat policies seem to do nothing to lift people out of it. To which Detroit serves as long-time illustration.

    I wasn't aware mayors controlled the national economic system.
    Where are working solutions?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    When people are losing jobs and thus move into underclass -> underclass is created. For coal miners underclass is created as direct result of Democrat policies. "In pursuit of greater goals", but that doesn't diminish the point.
    The coal industry was murdered by the oil industry and automation. Everything else was minuscule in comparison.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The coal industry was murdered by the oil industry and automation. Everything else was minuscule in comparison.
    Are you saying there were no policies speeding that process up?

    I'm not even against it. Just admit those jobs are destroyed and there will be nothing to replace them.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Are you saying there were no policies speeding that process up?

    I'm not even against it. Just admit those jobs are destroyed and there will be nothing to replace them.
    Yes. The policy of capitalism. Or are you fine with a job that routinely kills people at young ages? Because killing your workers is something that should be regulated against.

    There are replacements. Learning to code is one of them. There are potentially others such as building and maintenance of renewable electricity. Colorado, for example, has started programs to just that.

  8. #108
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    When people are losing jobs and thus move into underclass -> underclass is created.
    There is no "thus". That's what you're inserting out of nowhere. That's what you're inventing, and pretending you aren't.

    You're gaslighting.

    For coal miners underclass is created as direct result of Democrat policies. "In pursuit of greater goals", but that doesn't diminish the point.
    No, it was due to coal being a dying industry with ever-shrinking market presence. The Democrats have nothing to do with that.

    Where are working solutions?
    Learning to code is a "working solution".


  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is no "thus". That's what you're inserting out of nowhere. That's what you're inventing, and pretending you aren't.

    You're gaslighting.

    No, it was due to coal being a dying industry with ever-shrinking market presence. The Democrats have nothing to do with that.
    Obama’s “War on Coal” Is Worth Fighting

    It looks like you're the one gaslighting here.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post

    They get subsidies because people have to use them to commute in American cities.

    A lot of those subsidies are consumption-side, trying it weaken price shocks for population.

    It is highly likely that fully replacing them with electric cars will increase costs without even higher subsidies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    most subsides is production side billions worth in fact, so again hand on scale, and even the amount of consumer side is still hand on scale that you where complaining about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Obama’s “War on Coal” Is Worth Fighting

    It looks like you're the one gaslighting here.
    even under trump with him literally throwing coal industry money for nothing (well campaign donations) the coal industry had major down turn, so an article that use a play on words of the typical right wing attack of "War on X" doesn't do much for your attempted nonesense
    Last edited by Stormspellz; 2021-11-24 at 06:48 PM.

  11. #111
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Obama’s “War on Coal” Is Worth Fighting

    It looks like you're the one gaslighting here.
    Hardly. Particularly as that's just about emissions control; uncontrolled emissions are, fundamentally, harm that the company is permitted to cause without paying for that damage. And that simply shouldn't be a thing that happens. What your link describes is coal's inability to perform adequately as a fuel source in the modern era.

    I'm not gaslighting at all. Coal is a declining industry, and trying to save jobs in that industry is like trying to preserve the saddlemakers in the aftermath of the rise of automobiles.


  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm not gaslighting at all. Coal is a declining industry, and trying to save jobs in that industry is like trying to preserve the saddlemakers in the aftermath of the rise of automobiles.
    The lamplighters union is still furious that they lost their jobs to electricity.

  13. #113
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    36,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Why do you look across the pond for "millions spent" when you have native media networks making billions of dollars on spreading misinformation in America? Like, for you, Fox News? Or OAN? Or Project Veritas?

    Let's be real, Russians might have a few good shots here and there but most of damage is from your own cultural war.
    I'm well aware of the propaganda war taking place on home soil. Russia is throwing gasoline on the fire because they like to watch the US burn.

    You didn't really defend Russia's propaganda troll farms so much as just deflected to home soil, so good job I guess?

    And part of that is also Democrats embracing supposedly Republican-inspired idea of "Us vs Them". Where if one side takes any position you must take the opposite, and your opinion should never match "the other"... lest it be revealed that you're the same.
    You'd have to be blind, deaf, and ignorant to not see that for the past 20 years it's been the Republicans issuing challenges to Democrat ideologies directly. The "Us vs them" mentality was started by Newt Gingrich, picked up by Fox News and Murdoch, funded by Koch and many others, and pushed by right wing politicians. McConnall is one of the chief guilty parties in the us vs them "war".

    This is basic history, and anyone trying to blame Democrats for the us vs them war doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

    In other threads you call Democrats ineffective and impotent for not standing up to encroaching Republican aggression. Here you try to blame Democrats for fomenting the us vs them war. How do you manage to prove you're a hypocrite through and through with every post you make?
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I wasn't aware mayors controlled the national economic system.

    You're making a ridiculous argument.
    I mean neither do presidents for the most part, the point being that it still gets used as a shorthand for broader trends in political arguments.

    Unfortunately we’ve got these convenient public figureheads to pass all the blame to because it’s easier to point the finger at one person.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    In other threads you call Democrats ineffective and impotent for not standing up to encroaching Republican aggression. Here you try to blame Democrats for fomenting the us vs them war. How do you manage to prove you're a hypocrite through and through with every post you make?
    Both of those statements can be true, they’re not mutually exclusive. If anything the real travesty here is that both parties are guilty of framing debates in terms of either/or rather than both/and. They’re really good at getting people to buy into a false dichotomy. Which is part and parcel to this whole backslide scenario in my opinion.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    The lamplighters union is still furious that they lost their jobs to electricity.
    Not gonna lie, I was legitimately confused for about 10 seconds wondering what Fallout 3 had to do with this.

  16. #116
    Hmf... I'll worry more should this flag make a comeback;

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    They are also a lot more dismissive of actual working class needs though. "We know what is good for you even as we destroy what you do for living".

    "Learn to code" was a Democrat thing too.
    Almost like promising to keep a dying/dead industry alive for no reason would be a foolish thing to promise. It would be like promising to bring back the horse drawn carriage industry.

    Better to tell those people the truth then let them believe the lie of "the good ol' days are comin' back."

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  18. #118
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Neverland Ranch Survivor
    Posts
    7,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Almost like promising to keep a dying/dead industry alive for no reason would be a foolish thing to promise. It would be like promising to bring back the horse drawn carriage industry.

    Better to tell those people the truth then let them believe the lie of "the good ol' days are comin' back."
    I got my resume ready for the buggy whip factory that I've been promised opens in 2022 in Princeton!
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  19. #119
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Shitposter Burn Out
    Posts
    9,981
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    I got my resume ready for the buggy whip factory that I've been promised opens in 2022 in Princeton!
    Well the positions for being a Contrarian Spam Bot are all full now. There's some openings for Coal Specific Coffin makers.
    Contrarian spam bots are busy lecturing Americans on gaming forums ... while conditions for their own miners are way worse.

    Death toll soars to 52 in Russian coal mine fire

    At least 11 now dead, 40 missing after blast at Listvyazhnaya mine, Kemerovo. Hope they will be found safe as soon as possible.
    Union leader says "completely feckless" attitude to safety is responsible for accidents.
    Горняков могла бы спасти специальная изолирующая камера, но эксперт сомневается в ее наличии



    Poor miners in Russia...

    "There is nothing to discuss."

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Are you saying there were no policies speeding that process up?

    I'm not even against it. Just admit those jobs are destroyed and there will be nothing to replace them.
    That's like blaming the King for ordering more Crossbows and Longbows and putting armorsmiths out of buisness. Coal is a dying indsutry, has been for decades. You can't blame the government for turning to newer, safer, environmentally sounder technologies. Technological progress gets people laid off. It's sad. But it happens. Ask the Leather industry what happened to them when plastics became a thing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Hmf... I'll worry more should this flag make a comeback;
    Is there a reason the N is backwards?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •