we should not accept chore content without alternatives

[Log Cabin]

Because people asked for things to do, but they won't do things that don't give something that's linked to power or is super easy (like very late legion mage tower), but at the same time when it has power attached to it, even if it is 0.00001% chance of giving 0.00001% power increase it suddenly becomes a forced chore.

Tons of people did the mage tower... it also was only super easy if you did mythic 15s and if you did that you were already at the skill level to do mage tower...

I think people wanted more dungeons and raids not more trash.

[Twdft]

it's not about if I can do it; it's the if we don't do it: we'll be considered jerks and be kicked out of raid teams anyway; so we have to do it to be optimal.

This is the difference between all 239 and 252 conduits:



Somehow I doubt you are one of the ~100 players in the world (of warcraft) who would be rightly kicked out of their raid team for not farming their ass off to max out their conduits.

[Chipped coin]

This is the difference between all 239 and 252 conduits:



Somehow I doubt you are one of the ~100 players in the world (of warcraft) who would be rightly kicked out of their raid team for not farming their ass off to max out their conduits.

Are we talking about a single level of conduit upgrades here? A more fair comparison would be base level to max. It also isn't a pure dps upgrade but usually survival and utility as well. Take into account as well burst dps increases can ease the most stressful parts of fights and you don't seem to be making a point in good faith.

[Twdft]

Are we talking about a single level of conduit upgrades here? A more fair comparison would be base level to max. It also isn't a pure dps upgrade but usually survival and utility as well. Take into account as well burst dps increases can ease the most stressful parts of fights and you don't seem to be making a point in good faith.

Yeah, this is one rank. You get 239 by simply playing the game (+15s and heroic raiding). If you are not a world first raider there is no point investing a ton of time grinding out 252s. Do if you have fun, but any raidleader kicking you if you don't outside of world first raiding is a moron and I don't see how this opinion would be bad faith.

It is important to have your best conduits. It doesn't matter if they are 252 or 239.

[epigramx]

This is the difference between all 239 and 252 conduits:



Somehow I doubt you are one of the ~100 players in the world (of warcraft) who would be rightly kicked out of their raid team for not farming their ass off to max out their conduits.

Who told you to compare only 239 and above? Nice selective strawman.

Also you're probably even more selective in there to cause that (e.g. where are all the classes and specs?); let alone a lot of them are defensives (and they are extremely important); I guess someone has to learn the game is not only "deeps" (before we even go that the test is extremely selective to begin with).

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ton of time grinding out 252s

You can tell this forum is mostly for the unsubscribed. It doesn't take a "ton of time". It took me a week of casual play if I cared; in a month I guess if I didn't.

[Twdft]

Who told you to compare only 239 and above? Nice selective strawman.


Also you're probably even more selective in there to cause that.

I compare 239 because you get that by simply playing the game. Not having 239 is lazy, I agree with that.

Feel free to sim your char and show the gargantuan difference max conduits have in your mind. You complain again just to complain...

[epigramx]

I compare 239 because you get that by simply playing the game. Not having 239 is lazy, I agree with that.

Feel free to sim your char and show the gargantuan difference max conduits have in your mind. You complain again just to complain...

Someone has to learn the game is not only "deeps". Some of those are defensives and they are extremely important when upgraded.

Let alone you didn't even cover all the classes and all the specs; terrible "test"; absolute strawman.

[Twdft]

Someone has to learn the game is not only "deeps". Some of those are defensives and they are extremely important when upgraded.

Let alone you didn't even cover all the classes and all the specs; terrible "test"; absolute strawman.

Extremely important... would you be so kind to show the best defensive conduit and its gargantuan difference between 252 and the lower rank you have?

[epigramx]

Extremely important... would you be so kind to show the best defensive conduit and its gargantuan difference between 252 and the lower rank you have?

It's not my burden of proof. You come here with the minority claim; all semi-hard core guilds will kick you(or call you a fool) if you claim those things and even some casual guilds.

Unless you mean I'm saying something weird; maybe it's weird for people that don't play even marginally competitively; but those are almost off topic.

[Twdft]

It's not my burden of proof. You come here with the minority claim; all semi-hard core guilds will kick you(or call you a fool) if you claim those things and even some casual guilds.

Unless you mean I'm saying something weird; maybe it's weird for people that don't play even marginally competitively; but those are almost off topic.

How is this my burden of proof? You claimed to lose your raid spot if you don't grind out 252 coduits, I simmed my char to show that another rank of dps conduits reward such little benefit that it doesn't matter outside of world first raiding. You claimed defensive conduits are extremely important to have maxed... back up your claim as I did mine.

[Chipped coin]

Yeah, this is one rank. You get 239 by simply playing the game (+15s and heroic raiding). If you are not a world first raider there is no point investing a ton of time grinding out 252s. Do if you have fun, but any raidleader kicking you if you don't outside of world first raiding is a moron and I don't see how this opinion would be bad faith.

It is important to have your best conduits. It doesn't matter if they are 252 or 239.

Depends on class. SoD is kind of poorly designed tier not awful but it favors burst and passive dmg reduction heavily to the point most people run an extra defensive dom socket over dps.

That said do we really need to defend dogshit level design with the line " but method din't"

What is and isn't needed for mythic depends on how heavily you can class stack and how pin point perfect you can execute usually suboptimal cd timings to overcome select parts of the fight. These shit systems exist because blizz knows they can rope people into garbage content. I don't get why people pretend its acceptable beyond some wage distaste for players running difficulties above them.

[TomGreen]

I have been playing this game long enough to know that vast majority of the playerbase does NOT want difficult content. They made heroic dungeons ever so slightly more difficult at the beginning of Cataclysm and it was a massive shitstorm of hatred and negativity towards Blizzard.


Hell just look at this expansion even. Early Torghast was pretty difficult doing layer 8 and they nerfed that quick after all of the complaints.

Players (even casual) have evolved since cata. Those same dungeons today would be a walk in the park. M+ has allowed people to develop their dungeon skills a lot better than before.

[Kehego]

Depends on class. SoD is kind of poorly designed tier not awful but it favors burst and passive dmg reduction heavily to the point most people run an extra defensive dom socket over dps.

That said do we really need to defend dogshit level design with the line " but method din't"

What is and isn't needed for mythic depends on how heavily you can class stack and how pin point perfect you can execute usually suboptimal cd timings to overcome select parts of the fight. These shit systems exist because blizz knows they can rope people into garbage content. I don't get why people pretend its acceptable beyond some wage distaste for players running difficulties above them.

????

what extra defensive dom sockets? Literally everyone runs the 3 dps + the 2 of the colour you want.

Noone is using kyr over one of the 3 actual dps shards.

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Players (even casual) have evolved since cata. Those same dungeons today would be a walk in the park. M+ has allowed people to develop their dungeon skills a lot better than before.

lol, no they haven't.

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It's not my burden of proof. You come here with the minority claim; all semi-hard core guilds will kick you(or call you a fool) if you claim those things and even some casual guilds.

Unless you mean I'm saying something weird; maybe it's weird for people that don't play even marginally competitively; but those are almost off topic.

you're literally making shit up, as in noone could even tell the itemlevel of your conduits unless you put in a simc report.
The 2% per tick from growing inferno, or the 5 seconds off blur really won't make or break you, and is far less of a difference than actually playing properly. Like you 100% can perform at renown 57+239 conduits, literally doesnt matter nearly as much as you goobers think it does.

but, alas, its mmo-c so i'd be a liar if I said I expected something different.

[Twdft]

That said do we really need to defend dogshit level design with the line " but method din't"

I don't defend grind design, actually the opposite, I'm just calling out irrelevant complaints.

[Fenrys]

????

what extra defensive dom sockets? Literally everyone runs the 3 dps + the 2 of the colour you want.

Noone is using kyr over one of the 3 actual dps shards.

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lol, no they haven't.

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you're literally making shit up, as in noone could even tell the itemlevel of your conduits unless you put in a simc report.
The 2% per tick from growing inferno, or the 5 seconds off blur really won't make or break you, and is far less of a difference than actually playing properly. Like you 100% can perform at renown 57+239 conduits, literally doesnt matter nearly as much as you goobers think it does.

but, alas, its mmo-c so i'd be a liar if I said I expected something different.

If you don't run Kyr on mythic sylv you are trolling. Blood dps one provides negligible benefit

[Sialina]

Who told you to compare only 239 and above? Nice selective strawman.

Also you're probably even more selective in there to cause that (e.g. where are all the classes and specs?); let alone a lot of them are defensives (and they are extremely important); I guess someone has to learn the game is not only "deeps" (before we even go that the test is extremely selective to begin with).

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You can tell this forum is mostly for the unsubscribed. It doesn't take a "ton of time". It took me a week of casual play if I cared; in a month I guess if I didn't.

You get 239s from doing HC/15 keys, that's why he compared them. For a "casual" you get 226 conduits and the jump to 239 is about the same, slightly less. For a casual I'd think of this as something to do on a rainy day, go grind out 58 dps if you want to gain that little tiny extra bit.

[Kehego]

If you don't run Kyr on mythic sylv you are trolling. Blood dps one provides negligible benefit

so potentially 1 fight out of 10. cool.

my point still stands. (also you know there's like a whole bunch of adds that you get benefit from throughout the fight but yk, most of my classes play frost anyway)

also, point out someone actually doing that on sylvanas. link some logs or something, cus you're just napkin mathing something on a fight where you need throughput throughout the entire encounter, and the execute red does provide benefit.

[epigramx]

How is this my burden of proof? You claimed to lose your raid spot if you don't grind out 252 coduits, I simmed my char to show that another rank of dps conduits reward such little benefit that it doesn't matter outside of world first raiding. You claimed defensive conduits are extremely important to have maxed... back up your claim as I did mine.

I wasn't talking that literally. But in general you will be considered a jerk if you start saying those things like: 'I don't need better conduits; I don't need passive stats; I'm so good without them', in any guild that is even marginally trying to be competitive (usually).

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you get 226 conduits and the jump to 239 is about the same, slightly less.

That whole comparison was false to begin with. E.g. defensives are extremely important and he only cared about "deeps". And he didn't test all specs/classes so the "test" was terrible.

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you're literally making shit up, as in noone could even tell the itemlevel of your conduits unless you put in a simc report.
The 2% per tick from growing inferno, or the 5 seconds off blur really won't make or break you, and is far less of a difference than actually playing properly. Like you 100% can perform at renown 57+239 conduits, literally doesnt matter nearly as much as you goobers think it does.

but, alas, its mmo-c so i'd be a liar if I said I expected something different.

You imply you are a pro, and you do rookie mistakes. Defensives are extremely important and you only care about "deeps" (or you randomly call them "unimportant" without evidence).

[Kehego]

I wasn't talking that literally. But in general you will be considered a jerk if you start saying those things like: 'I don't need better conduits; I don't need passive stats; I'm so good without them', in any guild that is even marginally trying to be competitive (usually).

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That whole comparison was false to begin with. E.g. defensives are extremely important and he only cared about "deeps". And he didn't test all specs/classes so the "test" was terrible.

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You imply you are a pro, and you do rookie mistakes. Defensives are extremely important and you only care about "deeps" (or you randomly call them "unimportant" without evidence).

lmao but I'm not a lazy shitter on the forums complaining #1, I have *all* my condies 252 months before 9.1.5
But as someone that has all the 252's, i'ma let you know that you 100% won't notice the diff between 239 and 252, far less 226. 226 is fine for shitters; if you have 226 at this point you're a shitter, won't stop you from pushing heroic raid or 15s or whatever you do as a shitter

If you're legit complaining about not having maxed conduits how many months into the patch, you didn't care, don't do relevant content, and don't need them.
no guild that is still "progging" is competitive. No guild that is competitive is bitching about defensive condies when the content drops them; no guild that is remotely competitive doesn't do ish like adamant vaults which is hardly a grind.

So yeah, you're bad, you're wrong, conduits *literally do not matter* past 226 for 90% of the playerbase, including and especially you. As long as you have the right ones equipped, you're 100% fine.

(side note, you puppet; you literally can't sim defensives, so their value increases if you suck, and decreases if you don't. More wipes are caused by personal failure than by the raid being ticked down/something an extra 10% of the 5% the defensive conduit would prevent)

Damage is also more important than defensives honestly at this point as well, since more damage = less dangerous mechanics. Who the fuck cares if you can take 5% less damage if you can just kill the boss before you need to potentially take 5% less damage?

[epigramx]

won't notice the diff between 239 and 252

Off topic; the discussion has nothing to do if you have the skill to notice it yourself or not; it has nothing to do if you can do it because "you are pro and don't need them". Those are tangents people use to go off topic because they want to feel "pro".

The point was that: even if you are "pro" it will be considered a jerk move by even marginally optimal guilds if you tell them "I don't need to optimize more: I'm pro"; that is what makes grinding for borrowed systems a practical necessity.