Ajour and CurseBreaker Addon Managers No Longer Maintained

[deenman]

Reading the last few pages has been a trip (๑•́ ₃ •̀๑)

[kaminaris]

Has nothing to do with them being copied. It has to do with the code to make them work. No WordPress theme can function without the Loop or the Hooks/API calls. Hence why the GPLv2 license is viral.

NO WoW Addon works without WoW itself. DBM, Skada, ERT, WA, etc. are not stand-alone and cannot be used outside of WoW. There are addon libraries, sure. But making them commercial is stupid because no one would use them in their own addons.

First of all, plugin and app using libraries is two completely different things. By making plugin you are not embedding any 3rd party code inside your code so the license of the "framework" does not apply to your code. Obviously if you want to embedd 3rd party code in plugin then their license applies.

And second yes you can run addons outside of wow, there are frameworks that allows to do so. Whatever its "good idea" to try to run it outside of wow is literally irrelevant.

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https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/MACRO_api
Hopefully top-tier developer like you can understand the link.

You realize it was added like 1-2 expansions ago right?

And btw now I'm actually gonna stop replying because it gets a bit boring to argue some point you don't believe in to some amoeba, who thinks he can do anything he wants in this world. I don't now what the truth is, the only thing I'm sure is that your arguments is dumb on many levels and if I were you, I wouldn't want blizzard to test them. The world is not fair and you will get fucked either way.

You should have not replied if you have zero knowledge in the first place. I do, but you are unable to understand principles behind intellectual property laws in the first place. So now you resort in ad hominems lol.

[bluspacecow]

NO WoW Addon works without WoW itself. DBM, Skada, ERT, WA, etc. are not stand-alone and cannot be used outside of WoW. There are addon libraries, sure. But making them commercial is stupid because no one would use them in their own addons.

Not true at all.

Wow Addons are Lua and XML Code. If you have the right environment loaded in the right IDE they will run in a limited fashion. The code in them can be run through any decent Lua and/or XML profiling tools with the right settings.

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https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/MACRO_api
Hopefully top-tier developer like you can understand the link.

I feel like Aslan when you quote wowpedia to me

Yeah I know the guy that wrote that page. Even meet him at Blizzcon.

He's the author of Master Plan and other brilliant addons.

He does not work for Blizzard so that's not official documentation. The command you are talking over never existed before 2018 - I was in the Addon IRC and Discord when it was discovered.

While it's a brilliantly useful command I have to note it wasn't around when the wow addon community started. Addon authors pretty much had to forge their own paths to forging addon documentation as very little was given out officially by Blizzard.

[Depakote]

Is getting everything for free the only acceptable option for you?

The developers of these addons can't make money off of them, that's not me speaking that's Blizzard's own ToS. IF you have a problem with that maybe take it up with them.

[Ketho]

Yeah I know the guy that wrote that page. Even meet him at Blizzcon.

now I'm jelly I never got to meet any other addon developers at blizzcon, besides ever going to california

@dzd the /api command and Blizzard_APIDocumentation definitely are nice but they are kinda incomplete, it sadly does not document everything. Before that, addon authors had to look into the FrameXML and document it themselves on the wiki

[dzd]

While it's a brilliantly useful command I have to note it wasn't around when the wow addon community started. Addon authors pretty much had to forge their own paths to forging addon documentation as very little was given out officially by Blizzard.

Yes I know that the command has not been around for too long, but to my knowledge, that's the only real "official" way to search the documentation. I might me wrong though.

Before that you would just check out what functions blizzard's own add-ons use, and try to guess what they do. I don't know if you are somehow bound to EULA because of that. I like how that amoeba again is parroting about IP law, when he should be only concerned about contract law. Welp, I guess if you have never worked to any company you don't understand that you have to sign a contract so they actually own the IP you produce, not you, but I guess that's a bit too hard concept. Now that should lead for him to think that even if you own the IP you might be bound to a contract that doesn't let you sell it. While I personally don't believe that this is the case, I still wouldn't run around telling people to break EULA.

edit: oh and he also told how GPL licenses are viruses, which should hint him that maybe he can't do whatever he wants with his own code. Always so funny when leechers whine about licenses.

edit2: and just to clear, I'm not lawyer. That "API documentation" angle was just one idea that came to me that might be a problem. Lawyers can come up with with much better bullshit if they want to make your life hard. I'm just trying to illustrate why it's not so clear what you can do and can't do.

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@dzd the /api command and Blizzard_APIDocumentation definitely are nice but they are kinda incomplete, it sadly does not document everything. Before that, addon authors had to look into the FrameXML and document it themselves on the wiki

Yup, and big thanks to them. It has made making add-ons and WA's so easy.

[T-34]

The developers of these addons can't make money off of them, that's not me speaking that's Blizzard's own ToS. IF you have a problem with that maybe take it up with them.

They can make money off them as long as long as they are free to download.
They can get donations and get money from add-views.

[Relapses]

They can make money off them as long as long as they are free to download.
They can get donations and get money from add-views.

This is still a gray area. One could argue that getting paid for add-ons even through a completely different app goes against the spirit of the "always free add-ons" idea.

[kaminaris]

Yes I know that the command has not been around for too long, but to my knowledge, that's the only real "official" way to search the documentation. I might me wrong though.

Before that you would just check out what functions blizzard's own add-ons use, and try to guess what they do. I don't know if you are somehow bound to EULA because of that. I like how that amoeba again is parroting about IP law, when he should be only concerned about contract law. Welp, I guess if you have never worked to any company you don't understand that you have to sign a contract so they actually own the IP you produce, not you, but I guess that's a bit too hard concept. Now that should lead for him to think that even if you own the IP you might be bound to a contract that doesn't let you sell it. While I personally don't believe that this is the case, I still wouldn't run around telling people to break EULA.

The only amoeba here is you. Why are you even speaking about things you have no clue about? You even admit it You are not bound by any contract because you never signed nor agreed to any contract in first place. And I am literally working for and with companies, we deal with license and law on daily basis. The only thing blizzard can do is to block the addon.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...upio/758890/25

edit: oh and he also told how GPL licenses are viruses, which should hint him that maybe he can't do whatever he wants with his own code. Always so funny when leechers whine about licenses.

GPL licenses applies when you try to embed their code into your creation, not when creating a plugin for something. Always funny when entitled karens want other people work to be free.

edit2: and just to clear, I'm not lawyer.

Then don't speak about laws, especially if you never contacted lawyer in first place. I've dealt with copyright infringements, unauthorized use of 3rd party code, plugins for gpl software, reverse engineering and even negotiation of license change for commercial version.

[dzd]

This is still a gray area. One could argue that getting paid for add-ons even through a completely different app goes against the spirit of the "always free add-ons" idea.

I doubt that's blizzards intention. I think what they want is that there is no p2w addons. Take for example if all arena frames were behind paywalls that would be pretty big deal.

[Ketho]

meh, Kaminaris, at this point I wouldn't bother discussing addon copyright with some people here, they already shown they want to have an opinion without knowing how it works

[T-34]

This is still a gray area. One could argue that getting paid for add-ons even through a completely different app goes against the spirit of the "always free add-ons" idea.

If I understand all this correctly then the Overwolf app will only make it more convenient to download new add-ons/updates to existing add-ons that will be published for all to download on Curseforge. So the app won't be "mandatory" in any way.

As long as the "payment" only will consist of add-views on a regular web-site then I can't see why Blizzard should interfere.
But maybe it will prod Blizzard in to take a more active role in all of this. So far Blizzard hasn't done anything about more far more "egregious examples", like Zygor/RestedXP or people gating their WA's behind subs etc.

It can't be easy for Blizzard: On one hand it is bad for the player-base and how it perceives the game if has to pay extra on top of the sub for a nice gaming experience, but on the other hand it is in Blizzard's interest that the add-on creators are motivated to make all these add-ons that enhance people's playing experience for no cost for Blizzard.

[Relapses]

I doubt that's blizzards intention. I think what they want is that there is no p2w addons. Take for example if all arena frames were behind paywalls that would be pretty big deal.

We really don't know what "Blizzard's intentions" are in relation to Curse because their specific business model didn't exist when they were wording the ToS. The problem I have with Curse isn't that add-on developers are getting paid -- it's that the owners of the service are bullying people away from their platform in a way that seems like they want a monopoly on the market.

[dzd]

meh, Kaminaris, at this point I wouldn't bother discussing addon copyright with some people here, they already shown they want to have an opinion without knowing how it works

Because thinking that you shouldn't advocate breaking anyone's EULA, especially on "fansite", even if there is good chance that you are not bound to it, is about add-on copyright. I swear some people.

[Eosia]

Not true at all.

Wow Addons are Lua and XML Code. If you have the right environment loaded in the right IDE they will run in a limited fashion. The code in them can be run through any decent Lua and/or XML profiling tools with the right settings.

Ok. Enlighten me... how does WeakAuruas, Deadly Boss Mods, ElvUI, ERT, Skada/Details, etc. function without WoW?

[kaminaris]

meh, Kaminaris, at this point I wouldn't bother discussing addon copyright with some people here, they already shown they want to have an opinion without knowing how it works

Unfortunately thats pretty common here, also it simply spreads misinformation. Even reading with comprehension is hard i guess, or knowing the word "advocating"

[tomten]

The amount of addon "devs" in this thread defending obvious shady shit is beyond pathetic.
I'd rather blizz took a hard stance and said fuck you to all of you addon "devs". Make addons a pure hobby driven activity again... this shit is beyond stupid... Go get a real job instead....
You should not make a living making wow addons, its so retarded i can't really find the words to put it into a coherent sentence...

[kaminaris]

The amount of addon "devs" in this thread defending obvious shady shit is beyond pathetic.

Shady shit? There is nothing shady here, don't want to use OW, find alternative or dont use addons, you are not entitled to other people work.

Blizzard took hard stance years ago with zygor, they are fine with it. And you will have to deal with it.

What people should or should do is none of your business, I guess it is to an extend that without partners like curseforge you would not have DBM, BigWigs, Weakauras (or they would not be as good as they are now).

And hell, even elvui without adds/support wouldn't be nowhere near of how it is now.

[Mistame]

This is still a gray area.

Not really. The rules aren't that difficult to understand. You can't charge users to download or use an add-on or its features. You can't advertise paid goods/services or solicit donations within the add-on (ie, in-game). It does not cover donations made outside of the add-on/game, funding provided by third-party hosts/services or ad-based revenue.

One could argue that getting paid for add-ons even through a completely different app goes against the spirit of the "always free add-ons" idea.

That's really just an opinion. Add-ons are content, just like videos created by streamers, etc. If someone wants to support a creator they like, they should have the option and there's nothing wrong with creators receiving compensation for their time/work.

Ok. Enlighten me... how does WeakAuruas, Deadly Boss Mods, ElvUI, ERT, Skada/Details, etc. function without WoW?

The point was that neither Lua or XML are WoW-specific languages. With the proper emulator/IDE, most add-ons would function fine.

The amount of addon "devs" in this thread defending obvious shady shit is beyond pathetic.

It depends what you're calling "shady". There's nothing wrong with them limiting their API and finding ways to compensate for using their servers and bandwidth.

I'd rather blizz took a hard stance and said fuck you to all of you addon "devs". Make addons a pure hobby driven activity again...

The term "hobby" does not exclude potential compensation.

Go get a real job instead...

Most add-on devs do have real jobs.

You should not make a living making wow addons,

No one is "making a living" making add-ons. Though I imagine a select few do have enough supporters to inspire continued development of those add-ons. Also, you're not entitled to anything. If an author writes an add-on, it is theirs to do with what they want.

i can't really find the words to put it into a coherent sentence...

I don't think this is related to the discussion.

[tomten]

The term "hobby" does not exclude potential compensation.

No one is "making a living" making add-ons. Though I imagine a select few do have enough supporters to inspire continued development of those add-ons. Also, you're not entitled to anything. If an author writes an add-on, it is theirs to do with what they want.

Yes and no.
If you need to use blizzards platform, aka wow, to get that money or compensation and they(blizzard) explicitly say you can't make money on addons and you still do.
Who's in the wrong here?
Sure, make whatever you want but dont be a hypocrite and use blizzards platform to peddle it? All those addons would be useless without blizzard and they again, dont want you to monetize addons.

Yet, you still find ways around that and you still take the moral high ground. Its disgusting.