To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers and Fans that want to Design WOW.

[niztheundead87]

Because Players had to figure out how to complete a questchain, it was timegating?

Mate, just leave it, it's obvious that you've ran yourself into a corner.

At this point you are either bellular himself or you just can't see that you simply hate the game so much you won't let go and move on.The main problem with those kind of YouTubers and streamers is the followers they have that will take every single word they spout as prophecy.

Keep paying yourself at the back along with the outraomob. Dude.

You hate the game , move on .grow up

[NineSpine]

At this point you are either bellular himself or you just can't see that you simply hate the game so much you won't let go and move on.The main problem with those kind of YouTubers and streamers is the followers they have that will take every single word they spout as prophecy.

Keep paying yourself at the back along with the outraomob. Dude.

You hate the game , move on .grow up

Then why do I like asmongold even though he thinks the new patch looks great and I think it looks bad?

[Kralljin]

At this point you are either bellular himself or you just can't see that you simply hate the game so much you won't let go and move on.The main problem with those kind of YouTubers and streamers is the followers they have that will take every single word they spout as prophecy.

Keep paying yourself at the back along with the outraomob. Dude.

You hate the game , move on .grow up

As there is nothing of substance in this post worth replying to, i'll just point out that you managed to sink so low that you can only resort to nothing but ad hominem.

[NineSpine]

In vanilla you wouldn't do the quest in one day everyone was new at the game back then .none had a clue.


Bellular is this you ?

Time gating is when time is the thing gating you. It’s right there in the name. It’s not when a task or content is gating you.

[niztheundead87]

As there is nothing of substance in this post worth replying to, i'll just point out that you managed to sink so low that you can only resort to nothing but ad hominem.

How is this even ad hominem lol

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Time gating is when time is the thing gating you. It’s right there in the name. It’s not when a task or content is gating you.

They both prevent you from access in the raid.

No key for Karazhan no entry

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Then why do I like asmongold even though he thinks the new patch looks great and I think it looks bad?

And yet asmon moved on unlike the clickbait farmer

[Osmeric]

How is this even ad hominem lol

The facile dismissal of arguments because the person "hates the game" is a non sequitur. You aren't doing anything to rebut arguments or evidence, but attacking the person presenting them.

For example, suppose I argued that anything you said could be dismissed out of hand because (not claiming you are, this is just for the example) you're an infatuated fanboy. You'd rightly object to that. And yet, what you are doing is structurally exactly the same.

[Xykotic]

Where is the "reason"?
Is it bellular?
The dude that should stick to lore because he doesn't even play the game?

Ah yes, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

Let me ask you then, how much would he need to play to be considered "playing the game"?

[niztheundead87]

The facile dismissal of arguments because the person "hates the game" is a non sequitur. You aren't doing anything to rebut arguments or evidence, but attacking the person presenting them.

For example, suppose I argued that anything you said could be dismissed out of hand because (not claiming you are, this is just for the example) you're an infatuated fanboy. You'd rightly object to that. And yet, what you are doing is structurally exactly the same.

My original point was that bellular makes clickbait videos based on hate mongering which I already proved because he made a video about raiding but he doesn't talk about it in said video.

His opinion has no more merit than anyone else yet he keeps spouting video after video when he could simply move on.

Yet somehow you felt the need to dismiss that because you agree on that based on confirmation bias.

Dude the only one using ad hominem here is just you.

[Kralljin]

How is this even ad hominem lol

I would show the specifics part of the post, but as the saying goes "if everything is highlighted, nothing is".
@Osmeric already explained what an Ad hominem is, since you seem struggle with its definition.

Dude the only one using ad hominem here is just you.

You seem that pissed off that you even fail to realize when someone that isn't me is replying to you.

Unless you want to say that Osmeric used an Ad Hominem there, which he did not.

[tekaqua]

If Asmongold and Preach were in charge of the game maybe they could avoid all the deliberating and just actually make some positive changes

I highly doubt this, they don't think in in terms of the variety of player base, just how they play and what they want. If Asmondood had is way LFR would be gone which would remove raid access to the majority of the player base. Yeah that's positive....

"Blizzards biggest problem is ignoring all feedback and doing nothing"

I think there's a misunderstanding that people seem to think they are ignoring the feedback, and not realizing that it takes time for them to go back in and restructure these things which they end up doing. I work on a development team (no not for blizz) and let me tell you making changes isn't a snap of the finger fix. It has to go through so many groups and teams of approval to even get changed in the first place and then takes time to get implemented and go through all the testing. Yes they get feedback during beta but ultimately they have already spent a lot of time and resources to get to that point and if they feel its good they release it at launch... and then more feedback occurs in which they end up going back and changing things but that takes time. They have roadmaps and other things that are prioritized. Is it a good system, obviously not but they def are not ignoring feed back and doing nothing.

I would also like to point out to the people complaining about how long it takes and all the referencing I have seen that FF14 devs listen... They do tend to make changes based on overwhelming feedback but these changes never come in the same expansion. If they come at all they come in the following expansion.

One of FF14's biggest issues complained about is housing and still has never been resolved.
During last expansion everyone complained because female bunny race came out with out a male counterpart, We were told it wasn't going to happen, it wasn't until this coming Friday with the new expansion that they are coming, and the other race that was missing the female counterpart is coming but on the wait list still.

[niztheundead87]

I would show the specifics part of the post, but as the saying goes "if everything is highlighted, nothing is".
@Osmeric already explained what an Ad hominem is, since you seem struggle with its definition.

You seem that pissed off that you even fail to realize when someone that isn't me is replying to you.

Unless you want to say that Osmeric used an Ad Hominem there, which he did not.

its funny that i make a point of how its all clickbait farming then proving it and then you dismiss my opinion because it doesnt fit you.

[Aggressive]

lol

Lets wait what will happen with the game after kotick is removed.

I think people will still play it. It is called Copium addiction. World of Warcraft is going through a rough time right now...really really rough. Bobby is trying to separate the ass grabbers from those that actually want to work and make the game some what fun. But you can't do that when you have skeletons jingling in your closet. Bobby is not the leader he is putting himself out there to be. He needs to move on.

[NineSpine]

How is this even ad hominem lol

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They both prevent you from access in the raid.

No key for Karazhan no entry

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And yet asmon moved on unlike the clickbait farmer

Asmon still does tons of wow content.

When people complain about time gating, they are complaining about being locked out because of TIME. Replying to that with "DID YOU KNOW YOU ALSO GET LOCKED OUT BY NEEDING TO DO CONTENT" doesn't further the discussion. It's just a way for you to intentionally miss the point and argue. We don't mind getting blocked by content or even by tasks. We mind being blocked by TIME. This is like if I said "I don't like tomatoes" and you said "WELL YOU LIKE POTATOES AND THOSE ARE PLANTS TOO!" What is your point?

[Rageonit]

Maybe it's just me, saying it's a "success" but then saying not to do it again sounds more like a politicians way of saying "It hasn't worked, i just can't say it upfront".

In politics, many successes are regarded poorly by the public, because the public way of thinking is always: What is best for ME? And what is best for YOU isn't always best for US.

Since the very beginning, there was no winning with Covenants. It never mattered how well they are balanced, how diverse can the choices be etc. etc., simply because for the big portion of vocal WoW community the whole idea of being forced to make a lasting choice that's not optimal for every kind of content is a big no-no. It has to be best for everything, or you have to have the option to change it on the fly. So even if at Blizzard they do regard it as a success, I'm not at all surprised they won't do it again anytime soon.

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We don't mind getting blocked by content or even by tasks. We mind being blocked by TIME.

Funny, ain't it? To think there are people who are ok with doing boring grind for a week instead of using that time for something actually entertaining and just waiting a week. Oh well.

[niztheundead87]

Asmon still does tons of wow content.

When people complain about time gating, they are complaining about being locked out because of TIME. Replying to that with "DID YOU KNOW YOU ALSO GET LOCKED OUT BY NEEDING TO DO CONTENT" doesn't further the discussion. It's just a way for you to intentionally miss the point and argue. We don't mind getting blocked by content or even by tasks. We mind being blocked by TIME. This is like if I said "I don't like tomatoes" and you said "WELL YOU LIKE POTATOES AND THOSE ARE PLANTS TOO!" What is your point?

my point is that no matter what something takes your time to do the content let it be farming the reputation needed to enter hc dungeons in tbc or getting the gear that allows you to clear a raid.



do that in one day as a fresh max lvl on tbc

[Niwes]

I highly doubt this, they don't think in in terms of the variety of player base, just how they play and what they want. If Asmondood had is way LFR would be gone which would remove raid access to the majority of the player base. Yeah that's positive....

"Blizzards biggest problem is ignoring all feedback and doing nothing"

I think there's a misunderstanding that people seem to think they are ignoring the feedback, and not realizing that it takes time for them to go back in and restructure these things which they end up doing. I work on a development team (no not for blizz) and let me tell you making changes isn't a snap of the finger fix. It has to go through so many groups and teams of approval to even get changed in the first place and then takes time to get implemented and go through all the testing. Yes they get feedback during beta but ultimately they have already spent a lot of time and resources to get to that point and if they feel its good they release it at launch... and then more feedback occurs in which they end up going back and changing things but that takes time. They have roadmaps and other things that are prioritized. Is it a good system, obviously not but they def are not ignoring feed back and doing nothing.

2 important points showing up sideways in this post:

1)
the „real“ main problem of wow, is that it has no target audience. instead it has a such broad audience, that it is impossible for blizz to cater to everyone. i.e. lets say the audience is 10 different types of players. so, most of the time, changes are targeting towards 2-3/10 while 7-8/10 are pissed. regardless what changes. having no straight target audience leads always to the „compromise“ problem, where you can make noone really happy in the end. in short: Blizz slowly changed wow over years to get the money from everyone and now has an unhealthy and unhandling broad audience instead of a clear target audience.

2)
you are right in most that you said, imo. i am a sw dev since 22+ years too. but even when all you said is right, Blizzard still didnt learned from the past. SL game design was not their first iteration of that design. Yes, you cant just listen to the player feedback in beta and just throw everything overboard. but you can think what you do BEFORE you do it. you can think about feedback while BfA, at the point when you START designing the next xpac. and you can do polls. you can ask ppl, what they want. actively. by your own. heck, with such a broad audience of customers its even waaaay more important, to exactly know „which“ percent want „what“. Blizz just taking the lazy route and go like „our playerbase is that broad, we only can do wrong anyway, so lets stick with what we already did, maybe it works again.“. which obviously leads into a sinking ship.

[HansLolo]

2 important points showing up sideways in this post:

1)
the „real“ main problem of wow, is that it has no target audience. instead it has a such broad audience, that it is impossible for blizz to cater to everyone. i.e. lets say the audience is 10 different type of players. so, most of the time, changes are target to 2-3/10 while 7-8/10 are pissed. regardless what changes. having no straight target audience leads always to the „compromise“ problem, where you can make noone really happy in the end. in short: Blizz slowly changed wow over years to get the money from everyone and now has an unhealthy and unhandling broad audience instead of a clear target audience.

2)
you are right in most that you said, imo. i am a sw dev since 22+ years. but even when all you said is right, Blizzard still didnt learned from the past. SL game design was not their first iteration of that design. Yes, you cant just listen to the player feedback in beta and just throw everything overboard. but you can think what you do BEFORE you do it. you can think about feedback while BfA, at the point when you START designing the next xpac. and you can do polls. you can ask ppl, what they want. actively. by your own. heck, with such a broad audience of customers its even waaaay more important, to exactly know „which“ percent want „what“. Blizz just taking the lazy route and go like „our playerbase is that broad, we can do anyway wrong, so lets stick with what we already did, maybe it works again.“. which obviously leads into a sinking ship.

Kinda agree:
We got Bellular who barely touches the game outside leveling and few runs in normal raiding - and represents around 900K subs. Even they have an idea of how WoW should be.

[NineSpine]

my point is that no matter what something takes your time to do the content let it be farming the reputation needed to enter hc dungeons in tbc or getting the gear that allows you to clear a raid.



do that in one day as a fresh max lvl on tbc

I like doing content. I don't like sitting and waiting. Why is this so hard for you to accept?

[Osmeric]

Dude the only one using ad hominem here is just you.

Criticizing the structure of your argument is not ad hominem. I'm attacking the argument, not you. Now, you might feel personally attacked if someone disagrees with you, but if so that would not mean that any disagreement with you is an ad hominem argument.

[NineSpine]

Kinda agree:
We got Bellular who barely touches the game outside leveling and few runs in normal raiding - and represents around 900K subs. Even they have an idea of how WoW should be.

You are sooooo close. The question you are missing is "What changed that made it where the game had plenty for Bellular to do in the past?"