"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
I think the attunement in BC was widely regarded, in retrospect, as a bad idea.
There have been games that tried to get back to a somewhat BC-like design. Rift and WildStar spring to mind. Rift's single-difficulty raids lost most players before Hammerknell, and WildStar's attunement process was notorious.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
It may appear unhealthy being here, because at mmoc, we are all sitting in the waiting room of a doctor's office. Meanwhile, at their homes, plenty of causal players have fun with the casual part of the game, plenty of raiders enjoy current raid, plenty of PvPers do PvP. All it takes is accepting that not everything has to cater to you. Quite obviously, there are people in this world who can't accept this. That's what forums are made of.
"Content" is a very generous word for some grinds this game had in the past. Thanks, I'll wait. Waiting has this huge benefit that you do it only once. Have fun repeating the grind on every character. Here's a friendly advice: read a book while waiting, it will make it a lot more bearable.
Well, there are also plenty of WoW players who feel WoW no longer caters to them. Probably in excess of 90% of them. One might not agree with these players, but even a person who is perfectly happy with the current state of the game should pause to consider why this percentage is so damned high. If one is determined to dismiss all these former players as haters, one should well ask what inspired that hate.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
Ok so where are the videos of preach, asmongold and bellular criticizing the FFXIV shop? Where are the videos of these guys holding FFXIV to the same standard as they hold wow? Where are the videos of them spewing vitriol at it like they do to wow?? You ask why these streamers are so inflammatory and clickbaity, well the evidence is right there with the absence of videos where they criticize FFXIV en large. FFXIV is the community's favourite Child right now and wow is getting the hate bandwagon. Criticizing FFXIV would be stupid as it would not generate the same amount of traffic and revenue as clickbait outrage wow videos do. If anything it would turn against them and they know itIt's completely possible to dislike the cash shop in FF14 as well.
While I don't disagree with that assessment, WildStar had a number of other serious problems that also turned people off (botting, loot design, not working well with AMD CPUs), so it's difficult to make the case completely ironclad. The game's decline was spectacularly rapid.
Last edited by Osmeric; 2021-11-30 at 01:30 PM.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
Last edited by HansLolo; 2021-11-30 at 01:33 PM.
Hater is a strong word; self-absorbed is probably more accurate.
This whole idea of wondering why someone else is not enjoying the game is beyond me. I don't think Blizzard is in any obligation to please you, me or anyone else. They make the game they want to make, some people still play it (my server cluster looks healthy, even tho it's marked as low population). Clearly, enough people still play it to make it profitable, so all is good in my fantasy land. When evening comes, I will, as usual, say a prayer for all the games that were supposedly better and are already dead.
This is how it goes:
Commitment over time = the product becomes you. Any "bad" direction is some form of direct insult on you. So you need to hate - how else can you express yourself.
This pattern is in any industry, politics, food, music, religion etc.
You can't just move on - you made your commitment and somebody took of your investments and you feel somewhat hurt. And now you want to see it burn it to the ground, as you don't have any power to change or influence.
So...we're back at this?
I'll just reiterate myself, if you want to criticize him for klickbaiting, go ahead, that is nothing where i have ever argued against.
I do however point out that he's talking about something that is relevant to raiding, which is the timegate during the 1st week.
It's just a different topic whether someone criticizes a content creator for klickbaiting or his content containing false / inaccurate information.
The point is however that the only way to combat this narrative would be to show that most people did in fact pick Covenants based more subjective reasons rather than purely numerical ones.
As i said, Ion didn't deflect the numbers Preach was referring to, he just said "Well, it was an experiment, it was a success but he probably won't do it again".
...this whole chart is unnecessarily bloated with stuff like Doom lord Kazzak (which you don't need for any attunements), the Arcatraz key (which is completely optional), Shadowlabs key (which is also optional), Shattered Hells key (again, optional), contains inacurrate information (you don't need Keepers of Time revered for MH) or not even mentioning that you can start working on attunements before hitting cap.
It also completely ignores that most activities can be lined with gearing your character, if you hit cap, you should be doing Normal Mode dungeons...where you get rep, then you can do Heroic dungeons for gear+Badges, then you should be doing entry raids for, guess what, gear.
And that's not even mentioning that this chart represents the attunement of the enterity of TBC, you know, which is an entire expansion.
This is just another bad faith argument, no regularly played character has to complete the entire attunement process of TBC within a single day.
Bellular has conceded quite a few times that the cash shop in FF14 is worse than the one in WoW.
What however adds fuels to the fire in case of WoW is that apathy among the WoW community is a lot higher than in the FF14, which naturally puts a much bigger focus on any new addition to the store.
To quote the man himself: "they're solving design problems with business solutions".
Preach never made any videos about the store in recent years, so i don't see the point of mentioning him at all.
As for Asmongold, he himself already said that he doesn't like the FF14 store either, it's just that he's not nearly as invested in FF14 than he is in WoW.
It would also be a bit weird to complain about something that has existed in the game before you even started playing it, at least Asmongold played WoW before the store existed.
Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-11-30 at 01:48 PM.
Asmongold Says what he thinks of it here.
https://youtu.be/FQAeK11sKT8?t=226
Last edited by Hablion; 2021-11-30 at 01:42 PM. Reason: link timestamp
"How you build your character is not a feature of a MMORPG, it is the feature. Everything else is secondary even the gameplay itself is secondary to building your character, its the kind of stuff you think about when you are at work or school and couldnt wait to go home to play WoW or Diablo 2. We have all done it." ~Into, 2016
The biggest irony of these streamers? ...they will all be back
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