To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers and Fans that want to Design WOW.

[NineSpine]

Asmongold has no business designing WoW. For the last 5+ years he's been getting carried by people infinitely better, being given gold and consumes. He's completely detached from the typical playing experience.

I want Blizzard to focus more on endgame, hard content and less on casual stuff with no difficulty that everyone can play. Asmongold and Bellular can go play their Single Player MMO in Final Fantasy 14 and they can leave the actually hard multiplayer content to us WoW players. Thanks.

They already overwhelmingly gear the game toward you and it has been a disaster for subscriber numbers. Be careful what you wish for, because what you are wishing for is a game with too few players to warrant development.

[florclorbromiod]

They already overwhelmingly gear the game toward you and it has been a disaster for subscriber numbers. Be careful what you wish for, because what you are wishing for is a game with too few players to warrant development.

I don't care about subscriber numbers. I already play with the top 10% of players only anyway as a Cutting Edge player. For all I care y'all can go so they focus only on M+, arenas and Mythic raids.

Also provide proof of subscribers disappearing. Blizzard only lost 3 MAUs from SL launch to July, which at worst means their subs were around 6-7 mil in Summer.

[TomGreen]

Asmongold has no business designing WoW. For the last 5+ years he's been getting carried by people infinitely better, being given gold and consumes. He's completely detached from the typical playing experience.

I want Blizzard to focus more on endgame, hard content and less on casual stuff with no difficulty that everyone can play. Asmongold and Bellular can go play their Single Player MMO in Final Fantasy 14 and they can leave the actually hard multiplayer content to us WoW players. Thanks.

Turn off your add-ons then. Instant hard mode mythic raids.

[Kralljin]

Not at all. I've played MMOs since UO and EQ days.

I didn't say that it has been more hardcore than other MMO's, i do however question that increase of accessability = more subs.
Because it's utterly fallacious to argue that the increase in subs can only be attributed to an increase of accessability.

If that was the case, then subs must've gone through the roof when LFD or LFR was added - which they did not.

Blizzard has kept making the game more accessible for over a decade now in the grand scheme of things, they're not losing subs because the game isn't "accessible" enough, it's losing subs because every piece of PvE content outside of dungeon and raids is terrible, among other things.

And again, yes, there was a gradual increase in the more casual content from expansion to expansion. 10 man raids in wotlk were mostly a joke in difficulty, which made it perfect for casuals.

Yeah and when did subs start to plateau..?

Oh right, during Wotlk.

Blizzard experienced backlash from the community when TBC rained down purples at the end of every heroic dungeon onto its more casual player base.

Because TBC heroics are even remotely compareable in terms of difficulty with Wrath heroics or LFR.
Or any other modern catchup system that exists nowadays.

[florclorbromiod]

Turn off your add-ons then. Instant hard mode mythic raids.

Might as well break my left hand to increase the difficulty. No, thanks. It's not difficulty if I have to go out of my way to create it.

[NineSpine]

I don't care about subscriber numbers. I already play with the top 10% of players only anyway as a Cutting Edge player. For all I care y'all can go so they focus only on M+, arenas and Mythic raids.

Also provide proof of subscribers disappearing. Blizzard only lost 3 MAUs from SL launch to July, which at worst means their subs were around 6-7 mil in Summer.

We have tons of data from the API showing dramatic declines in players. If you think WoW has 6-7M players you are delusional.

Enjoy your 10% of people left when Activision decides the game isn't worth investing in.

[florclorbromiod]

We have tons of data from the API showing dramatic declines in players. If you think WoW has 6-7M players you are delusional.

Enjoy your 10% of people left when Activision decides the game isn't worth investing in.

I don't care about your quack game numbers made up by random websites. We have cold hard data right from Activision.



Blizzard had 29 MIL MAUs at Shadowlands launch ( biggest in history ) and 26 MIL MAUs during July 2021. Which means they lost 3 million tops from WoW.

Enjoy your 10% of people left when Activision decides the game isn't worth investing in.

Hilarious, because WoW 100% has bigger investments than FF14. FF14 plays like a game from 2010.

There's no MMO with smoother combat than WoW's. In FF14 you can't even move and do a melee attack at the same time properly.

[NineSpine]

I don't care about your quack game numbers made up by random websites. We have cold hard data right from Activision.



Blizzard had 29 MIL MAUs at Shadowlands launch ( biggest in history ) and 26 MIL MAUs during July 2021. Which means they lost 3 million tops from WoW.



Hilarious, because WoW 100% has bigger investments than FF14. FF14 plays like a game from 2010.

There's no MMO with smoother combat than WoW's. In FF14 you can't even move and do a melee attack at the same time properly.

Weird how I didn't even mention FF14 but the first thing you think to do when WoW is challenged is to bring up FF14.

This is MAUs for all of Blizzard. That means that someone like me, who cancelled my WoW sub but still play hearthstone once in awhile, is counted as 1 MAU just like I was when I had a WoW sub. In fact, I don't know a single person who quit WoW and doesn't log into some other Blizzard game once in awhile. A lot of my friends are playing Diablo 2 and you want to count then as a WoW sub.

[TomGreen]

Might as well break my left hand to increase the difficulty. No, thanks. It's not difficulty if I have to go out of my way to create it.

You're evening the playing field

[NineSpine]

In FF14 you can't even move and do a melee attack at the same time properly.

Also I don't even know what this means. I move while doing melee attacks constantly.

[Garretdejiko]

In FF14 you can't even move and do a melee attack at the same time properly.

That's called shitty isp. I can move/chase attack as NIN with zero problem

[TomGreen]

That's called shitty isp. I can move/chase attack as NIN with zero problem

If it has to do with shift or ctrl modifiers I think I know what they are saying. It's an odd issue.

[Garymorilix]

There was no "casual" MMO out there, and WoW was by far the easiest MMO in 2005 and 2006. For the casual players, leveling up WAS the experience. RPing, running UBRS, LBRS, Strat, Scholo, were the casual content.

In TBC, the more casual players did Karazhan, a relatively easy 10 man raid as well as heroic dungeons. Dailies and more accessibility to crafting and gathering also became a thing.

By wotlk, WoW was focusing heavily on casual content, but up to that point WoW had always been the most casual friendly game on the market. It's not as if vanilla WoW was at 12m subs either. That didn't happen until wrath. An increase in casual accessibility was what brought people to WoW. And back then, it was the most rewarding leveling experience considering that, while it was a grind, it was still much easier to do than pretty much any other MMO at the time.

No, you are wrong.

It literally didn't matter what the actual content was back then at that point if your main argument is "bUt It hAd 12M peOplE".
Your friends and your friends' friends played WoW to be together. That was the point.
You didn't have 80 multiplayer online genres to choose from. You didn't have 35 launchers or 10 inter-connected social media sites to talk to people.
People simply gravitated to WoW as everyone was on it.

The argument that it has anything to do with gameplay is flawed.
There is always a group of gamers who focus on gameplay, but when we look at 12million people then no, the vast majority probably didn't even know what half their spells did.
Don't mix gameplay design with the social climate of THE TIME.
WoW wasn't a "farm 30000 mobs in the same area" MMO and it had good social features that kept people connected at a time where there were way less platforms to do so. Everything beyond that is irrelevant for the active player numbers argument.

When you tackle the actual argument of the thread, whether WoW has non-instanced causal content, the answer is objectively yes, more than EVER before.

So now you consider Karazhan casual content despite it being a raid?
Normal raiding is not harder now than Karazhan was. Why is that too elitist now? We even have LFR which you can AFK thru.

WotLK literally didn't have any content outside of the raids.
You could do a few dailies here and there for jack-shit and you could do Wintergrasp, which I consider a battleground anyway.
This against just shows how blinded you are by a big player number even tho it has zero correlation to implemented gameplay systems because it gives you a false equivalence that you can point at: "bIg NuMBer = GoOd".

Sure.

[NineSpine]

No, you are wrong.

It literally didn't matter what the actual content was back then at that point if your main argument is "bUt It hAd 12M peOplE".
Your friends and your friends' friends played WoW to be together. That was the point.
You didn't have 80 multiplayer online genres to choose from. You didn't have 35 launchers or 10 inter-connected social media sites to talk to people.
People simply gravitated to WoW as everyone was on it.

The argument that it has anything to do with gameplay is flawed.
There is always a group of gamers who focus on gameplay, but when we look at 12million people then no, the vast majority probably didn't even know what half their spells did.
Don't mix gameplay design with the social climate of THE TIME.
WoW wasn't a "farm 30000 mobs in the same area" MMO and it had good social features that kept people connected at a time where there were way less platforms to do so. Everything beyond that is irrelevant for the active player numbers argument.

When you tackle the actual argument of the thread, whether WoW has non-instanced causal content, the answer is objectively yes, more than EVER before.

So now you consider Karazhan casual content despite it being a raid?
Normal raiding is not harder now than Karazhan was. Why is that too elitist now? We even have LFR which you can AFK thru.

WotLK literally didn't have any content outside of the raids.
You could do a few dailies here and there for jack-shit and you could do Wintergrasp, which I consider a battleground anyway.
This against just shows how blinded you are by a big player number even tho it has zero correlation to implemented gameplay systems because it gives you a false equivalence that you can point at: "bIg NuMBer = GoOd".

Sure.

Wrath casual features:

1. Lots of dungeons
2. Badge gear from dungeons
3. Lots of reputations
4. Useful professions
5. Wintergrasp
6. Gearing through random BGs
7. A huge amount of quests

Why does shadowlands have? A terrible world quest system and.... that's it. No more badge gear and you outlevel BG gear in a day or two. Dungeons and random pvp were core casual activities in Wrath, and they aren't in shadowlands.

[Aggressive]

Preach was at least genuinely passionate. Asmongold is just some entertainer.

Bellular is promoting his own career. He just announced his own game studio. Less people playing WoW, equals to more people playing other games.

I really don't appreciate how people falls for this PR.

We all know the game is not perfect - but taking statistic out from raider.io to conclude that WoW is dead is outright stupid and a really lowkey move(as seen in one of his recent videos). Plothole: the conlussion is that SL sold the most of all time, therefor more people must active in order to be a success compared to BFA.

But he just completely ignored the group of people, who joins for 1month and then quits(which is mostly former WoW players giving the game a chance). So the conclusion is based on false foundation and he is promoting this as breaking news(he should know better, now that he is some analyst expert as well).

Ummm so most of the info you posted is, well, irrelevant.

Saying Shadowlands sold of all time means nothing on numbers of subs now.

First of all this was wayyyyyyy before gamers knew Blizzard nothing but tittie and ass grabbers, this wayyyyyyy before gamers knew Bobby wanted to kill people, and this was wayyyyyy before gamers knew that Bobby was nothing but a fat ass lie.

Second it doesn't take a top grade analyst, a top raider, or Mythic raider to see that Choreghast is nothing more but Boreghast. Blizzard can't deliver on new content cause they are too damn busy groping and grabbing their female employees to fucking focus.

Content is the same o shit...RESKINNED.

I saw on Twitter a few weeks ago that some of the devs are playing FFXIV. Hoping while they do they will learn what "Real Fun" is and make WoW fun again instead of a boring shit of chores that it is now.

[florclorbromiod]

That's called shitty isp. I can move/chase attack as NIN with zero problem

I'm willing to bet my ISP speed's higher than yours.

The game just has spaghetti code.

- - - Updated - - -

Wrath casual features:

1. Lots of dungeons
2. Badge gear from dungeons
3. Lots of reputations
4. Useful professions
5. Wintergrasp
6. Gearing through random BGs
7. A huge amount of quests

Why does shadowlands have? A terrible world quest system and.... that's it. No more badge gear and you outlevel BG gear in a day or two. Dungeons and random pvp were core casual activities in Wrath, and they aren't in shadowlands.

Shadowlands has M+ and actually difficult raids, something WOTLK sorely lacked.

[Osmeric]

Shadowlands has M+ and actually difficult raids, something WOTLK sorely lacked.

That's number 8 on the reason Wrath > SL, right?

[florclorbromiod]

That's number 8 on the reason Wrath > SL, right?

If you're not interested in challenging PvE content I can only wonder why you're playing WoW.

No one was doing WOTLK's dungeons past Pre-BiS and that random heroic that gave you emblems of frost in the ICC patch.

[Osmeric]

If you're not interested in challenging PvE content I can only wonder why you're playing WoW.

I'm not playing WoW.

[florclorbromiod]

I'm not playing WoW.

I can tell. Maybe you should stick to FF14, the single player MMO.