1. #1

    Before a faction merger, a lesson from City of Heroes:

    This is about the story of Twixt.

    https://www.nola.com/news/article_9c...cf7b71fb4.html

    I the gist is this: PVP in City of Heroes was played by "pros", and no one else. Specifically because they could talk to each other. Twixt proved it, by roleplaying as a hero who specifically wanted to kill villains in PVP zones. Zones where people would do the objectives and generally avoid conflict. Villains called him out in General chat, and Heroes took the side of the "victims" (see: the enemy.)

    WoW's language barrier significantly improves the PVP experience in the open world and should not be lifted any more than it already is. There's a potion to speak Common and Orcish in /say and /yell, but general chat is still faction-specific. Guild chat is still faction-specific.

    Right now, if you kill someone "unfairly" in the open world, their recourse is to retaliate and call for aid. Which just means more PVP happens. If general chat were open to both factions, I'm convinced that any aggressors would simply be bullied out of PVP by whiners. Either that or theyd start tossing insults at each other and just generally create the toxic environment that City of Heroes PVP zones had.

    I just, don't know how they can possibly add cross-faction raiding without allowing cross-faction communication as the default, instead of a close-range opt-in feature. And that scares me a bit. Maybe just limit it to LFD and LFR? Guilds should certainly never have orcs and humans together. Open world objectives should never rely on cooperation with the enemy.
    Last edited by Amnaught; 2021-12-03 at 04:35 AM.

  2. #2
    No. This doesn't solve the issue at all or even addresses it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    way to response after first word before waiting for me to actualy finish...

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Glazey View Post
    No. This doesn't solve the issue at all or even addresses it.
    What is the issue that isn't addressed exactly? Faction balance?

    I mean to say that I feel like the cost of letting people talk cross-faction as the default is an incredibly steep price to pay, in exchange for.... Equal queue times between each faction? Which wouldnt actually be an issue here if they only allowed cross-faction LFR and LFD; no need for whispers, general, or trade chat there. No need for cross-faction guilds or orcs hanging out in the Stormwind auction house.
    Last edited by Amnaught; 2021-12-03 at 04:52 AM.

  4. #4
    If Blizzard introduces cross faction raiding and PvP I very much doubt it will stop world pvp from happening. But world pvp isn't really a thing anymore. They killed it with flying mounts in TBC and then with Warmode, by making it opt in.

  5. #5
    Just remove open world pvp. Problem solved.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by florclorbromiod View Post
    If Blizzard introduces cross faction raiding and PvP I very much doubt it will stop world pvp from happening. But world pvp isn't really a thing anymore. They killed it with flying mounts in TBC and then with Warmode, by making it opt in.
    Immediate social pressure to stop "bullying" by playing in PVP is a much more effective deterrent than the enemy's ability to fly.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    This is about the story of Twixt.

    https://www.nola.com/news/article_9c...cf7b71fb4.html

    I the gist is this: PVP in City of Heroes was played by "pros", and no one else. Specifically because they could talk to each other. Twixt proved it, by roleplaying as a hero who specifically wanted to kill villains in PVP zones. Zones where people would do the objectives and generally avoid conflict. Villains called him out in General chat, and Heroes took the side of the "victims" (see: the enemy.)

    WoW's language barrier significantly improves the PVP experience in the open world and should not be lifted any more than it already is. There's a potion to speak Common and Orcish in /say and /yell, but general chat is still faction-specific. Guild chat is still faction-specific.

    Right now, if you kill someone "unfairly" in the open world, their recourse is to retaliate and call for aid. Which just means more PVP happens. If general chat were open to both factions, I'm convinced that any aggressors would simply be bullied out of PVP by whiners. Either that or theyd start tossing insults at each other and just generally create the toxic environment that City of Heroes PVP zones had.

    I just, don't know how they can possibly add cross-faction raiding without allowing cross-faction communication as the default, instead of a close-range opt-in feature. And that scares me a bit. Maybe just limit it to LFD and LFR? Guilds should certainly never have orcs and humans together. Open world objectives should never rely on cooperation with the enemy.
    Faction Merge wont happen, pay attention.

    Instanced content could potentially be cross-faction with 0 issues.

    You can do cross-faction pvp right now by doing the recruitment bg.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    This is about the story of Twixt.

    https://www.nola.com/news/article_9c...cf7b71fb4.html

    I the gist is this: PVP in City of Heroes was played by "pros", and no one else. Specifically because they could talk to each other. Twixt proved it, by roleplaying as a hero who specifically wanted to kill villains in PVP zones. Zones where people would do the objectives and generally avoid conflict. Villains called him out in General chat, and Heroes took the side of the "victims" (see: the enemy.)

    WoW's language barrier significantly improves the PVP experience in the open world and should not be lifted any more than it already is. There's a potion to speak Common and Orcish in /say and /yell, but general chat is still faction-specific. Guild chat is still faction-specific.

    Right now, if you kill someone "unfairly" in the open world, their recourse is to retaliate and call for aid. Which just means more PVP happens. If general chat were open to both factions, I'm convinced that any aggressors would simply be bullied out of PVP by whiners. Either that or theyd start tossing insults at each other and just generally create the toxic environment that City of Heroes PVP zones had.

    I just, don't know how they can possibly add cross-faction raiding without allowing cross-faction communication as the default, instead of a close-range opt-in feature. And that scares me a bit. Maybe just limit it to LFD and LFR? Guilds should certainly never have orcs and humans together. Open world objectives should never rely on cooperation with the enemy.
    This is a poor argument because faction communication has literally always been possible. I used to trick low levels in Elwynn into flagging in Vanilla so that friends I had on Horde side could one shot them, or get people who were flagged to duel so they could be killed. It is now even easier than ever before because of things like discord, and you can already just add people on battle.net to do collusion stuff.

    Having cross-faction chat will not change anything in world pvp, which is 95% dead anyway, and it's unlikely BGs or Arenas would have cross team chat, since it would be too easy to exploit and deliberately tank games.

    Also, reading through this, it sounds like people hated that guy because he used some cancerous, scummy build that allowed him to just instagib enemy players, not just because he wanted to pvp and they didn't.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2021-12-03 at 04:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    What is the issue that isn't addressed exactly? Faction balance?

    I mean to say that I feel like the cost of letting people talk cross-faction as the default is an incredibly steep price to pay, in exchange for.... Equal queue times between each faction? Which wouldnt actually be an issue here if they only allowed cross-faction LFR and LFD; no need for whispers, general, or trade chat there. No need for cross-faction guilds or orcs hanging out in the Stormwind auction house.
    Faction Balance, as you've said, but you're also completely missing the point of these changes in that finding stuff to do at a high end (of even mid level) on Alliance is pretty much impossible. What you're suggesting is simply to fix LFD/LFR and it solves the issue.

    What is this "cost" for dismantling the divide?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    way to response after first word before waiting for me to actualy finish...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    What is the issue that isn't addressed exactly? Faction balance?

    I mean to say that I feel like the cost of letting people talk cross-faction as the default is an incredibly steep price to pay, in exchange for.... Equal queue times between each faction? Which wouldnt actually be an issue here if they only allowed cross-faction LFR and LFD; no need for whispers, general, or trade chat there. No need for cross-faction guilds or orcs hanging out in the Stormwind auction house.
    And what about normal/heroic/mythic and keys??

    Problem isn't queue times for lfr or whatever

    Problem is that alliance has no guilds, if you want to raid seriously you pretty much have to play horde

    Open world pvp died 16 years ago when battlegrounds were added to the game

    Being able to talk cross faction has pretty much zero downsides

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubim View Post
    Faction Merge wont happen, pay attention.

    Instanced content could potentially be cross-faction with 0 issues.

    You can do cross-faction pvp right now by doing the recruitment bg.
    this /10chars

  12. #12
    I mean...Blizz already fixed the world pvp issue with Warmode. If there is world pvp happening it's in a phase full of people who agreed to do world pvp. Any complaining should be retorted with a simple "then turn off war mode". Yes I know most people who turn on war mode aren't doing it to world pvp but this should be the limiting factor on your doomsday prediction. Hell if your in Warmode and not pvping then you shouldn't be there.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    What is the issue that isn't addressed exactly? Faction balance?

    I mean to say that I feel like the cost of letting people talk cross-faction as the default is an incredibly steep price to pay, in exchange for.... Equal queue times between each faction? Which wouldnt actually be an issue here if they only allowed cross-faction LFR and LFD; no need for whispers, general, or trade chat there. No need for cross-faction guilds or orcs hanging out in the Stormwind auction house.
    World pvp is not a reason to allow the alliance to completely die from a high end perspective.

    Also you can already talk cross faction with the btag system or failing that realm discords.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    This is about the story of Twixt.

    https://www.nola.com/news/article_9c...cf7b71fb4.html

    I the gist is this: PVP in City of Heroes was played by "pros", and no one else. Specifically because they could talk to each other. Twixt proved it, by roleplaying as a hero who specifically wanted to kill villains in PVP zones. Zones where people would do the objectives and generally avoid conflict. Villains called him out in General chat, and Heroes took the side of the "victims" (see: the enemy.)

    WoW's language barrier significantly improves the PVP experience in the open world and should not be lifted any more than it already is. There's a potion to speak Common and Orcish in /say and /yell, but general chat is still faction-specific. Guild chat is still faction-specific.

    Right now, if you kill someone "unfairly" in the open world, their recourse is to retaliate and call for aid. Which just means more PVP happens. If general chat were open to both factions, I'm convinced that any aggressors would simply be bullied out of PVP by whiners. Either that or theyd start tossing insults at each other and just generally create the toxic environment that City of Heroes PVP zones had.

    I just, don't know how they can possibly add cross-faction raiding without allowing cross-faction communication as the default, instead of a close-range opt-in feature. And that scares me a bit. Maybe just limit it to LFD and LFR? Guilds should certainly never have orcs and humans together. Open world objectives should never rely on cooperation with the enemy.
    First of all, what we don't need - is virtual racism, i.e. splitting playerbase by race characteristic. "It's fantasy world" argument no longer works, as inclusivity is brought to that fantasy world.

    What is major design flaw in Wow - is that Blizzard constantly forget, that PVE is about COOPERATION - NOT COMPETITION. Factions are ok in PVP, but NOT OK in PVE. Therefore mandatory game-wide factions should be removed and changed into temporary "teams", that exist in PVP only. That's it.

    Overall so called "forced PVP" - is one of major reasons, why I don't like current Wow. And PVP in this case - is literally "Player versus player". You should understand, that players don't have to kill each other in order to play versus each other. Any competition - is actually PVP. I don't like PVP, because in most cases it's unfair and makes me angry. And I don't want to pay for game, where I get negative emotions. For me RP >> Meta. And in most cases players, who are successful in PVP - are players, who ready to adapt and sacrifice their RP preferences vs playing Meta to have max efficiency. I'm not such player and such game would be pointless for me. And as I pick non-Meta - I'm doomed to always suck in PVP. And devs don't provide any "protection" from "dog eats dog" principles of PVP. Therefore I try to avoid it. And more it's forced - more I'm pushed out of game.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Kuja's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    City of Judgement
    Posts
    5,493
    If the next expansion is about something very serious, like old gods taking over azeroth, then it would make sense for alliance and horde to join forces temporarily. Jailer doesn't seem like a big threat. But then again I have ignored most of the story.

    My gold making blog
    Your journey towards the gold cap!


  16. #16
    Easy, warmode has factionless chat disabled and warmode off has it enabled
    DRAGONFLIGHT BETA CLUB

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    What is the issue that isn't addressed exactly? Faction balance?

    I mean to say that I feel like the cost of letting people talk cross-faction as the default is an incredibly steep price to pay, in exchange for.... Equal queue times between each faction? Which wouldnt actually be an issue here if they only allowed cross-faction LFR and LFD; no need for whispers, general, or trade chat there. No need for cross-faction guilds or orcs hanging out in the Stormwind auction house.
    You even saying "equal queue times" is the main issue just tells us one of two things either you don't even play the game or this is a troll thread lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •