Getting Back to Azeroth (Future Races and Allied Races)

[Susanoo]

It would not make sense for the Mogu to be Alliance when the Zandalari are Horde. Mogu and Zandalari gotta be together, otherwise what the fucks the point. But no Mogu should never be an Allied Race. They are one-dimensional villains who enslaved the whole Pandaren race for like a thousand years. Yeah, no. Mogu willingly fighting next to Pandaren would make even less sense than Covenant races coming to Azeroth.

San'layn are the worst thing Blizzard ever came up with. Pseudo-vampires at best, they are just a slap of edgelord paint over the 8th variation of Elves, not to mention Blood Elf DKs are already a thing.

With the introduction of the Rajani Mogu they are not really that one dimensional as before. Blizzard could easily write in a clan of Mogu who rejected the other Mogu clans but had ties to the Zandalari Trolls. The Horde also allowed slavery until Thrall became Warchief and outlawed that. The Zandalari Trolls also waged a war against the Pandaren so I do not think the Houjin Pandaren will be up in arms if the Mogu joined the Horde. The Houjin philosophy is essentially "by any means necessary" so if it is necessary for the Mogu to join the Horde they would probably be fine with it.

Most of the hate for the San'layn are just because people do not want more elves in the game which I can understand to a point. But its definitely not the worst thing blizzard has done. A large portion of High Elves died during the invasion of Quel'thalas and then Blood Elves died during Illidan's attack on the Frozen Throne. Its probably one of the more lore friendly introductions blizzard has done. Blood DKs do not capture the essence of San'layn because many San'layn are also powerful magic practitioners. The San'layn were introducted way before the Nightborne and Void Elves so I think they should be the last iteration of Elf since they've been around since WOTLK.

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Fair enough.
Though, i will point out that the reason he gave for hating Velen and the Draenei makes absolutely no sense, since he told them to leave while he stayed behind, so it feels very forced and, therefore, supposedly a lore reason for them not joining the Alliance. Secondly, the Broken did suffer racism from their brethren, the Draenei, so it does make some sense for them to be on the outcast faction if the Draenei continue to look down upon them. And thirdly, the Argus kind has never been massacred by the Orcs, or affected by the red mist they spread, so they don't harbor any hatred towards them.



Because we, literally, helped them to save the Shadowlands and stop Zovaal. They're in our debt. Plus, like all of us, they are part of the grand cosmic battle. So, it would make sense that they would want to help us protect Azeroth and preserve the balance of the various forces. The Horde and Alliance thing is just a technicality. Once you join us, you choose a faction. And they'll join whoever is closest to them attitude-wise.



And who's the Vulpera cousins of?
Thing is, like the Nightborne and Highmountain, the Shadowlands races will align with those who they have the most in common with. Nightborne share the Blood elves magical addiction? Well, so are the Venthyr depended on a substance. Mag'har joined their Orc brethren based on the warring nature? Well, so do the Maldraxxian value strength and might. Sylvar share their love of nature with the Night elves and Kyrian their virtue with the Humans.



We're not just any mortals. We're the "chosen ones". If they're so unique and powerful, they would not be dependant on us for saving the Shadowlands. You clearly don't follow the pattern here. We're not just visiting, we are resposible for the redemption of the entire plane. Kyrians and dark Kyrians banded together thanks to us. Maldraxxi got rid of backstabbing traitors. Sylvar's domain was saved from drought and Drust invasion and the Venthyr deposed their corrupted ruler to name a new one who is connected with us. You give too much weight to these races. They are, after all, angels, fauns, vampires and undead hulks. We, currently, lack those races. This would be the opportune moment to introduce such fantasies. Politics and faction are just side aspects. They would join for PvE reasons. But, as always, it comes with PvP implications. Elementals are not out of the question. Their model just doesn't fit playable races.



Which is a downgrade from an original and unique vampire race. Why have a grey blood elf when you can have a true vampire race instead?

While we helped the covenants they also supplied us with otherworldly powers and artifacts for us to help them restore order. Beings in the Shadowlands don't care about Mortal affairs and they never will. I think its clear at the end of Shadowlands we are just going to pickup and leave once everything is settled and done. I could see Prince Renethal scoffing at the idea of us saying "hey since we helped you, you need to help us". The covenants don't owe us anything because the relationship the players have with them is mutual. It is in the best interests of everyone involved to help restore order to the Shadowlands beyond that mission there is no reason for the players to be there anymore or for the Shadowlands covenants to be involved with our affairs. So I would not say they are "dependent" on us because we are also dependent on them because they provided us with power boosts and the tools to help them out. The Horde and Alliance thing is also not just a technicality its literally a core part of Warcraft. Each faction has specific reasons why they banded together possible out of desperation or because they share commonality. Do you expect a Venthyr to swear the blood oath to the Horde? The Venthyr have a purpose and simply just want to get back to redeeming the wicked souls sent to them. Just like all the shadowlands races they all express a strong desire to get back to their purpose. Races of the Shadowlands have no reason to ever start killing mortals over a faction war because they "owe us". That would ruin the purpose of their duties to the Shadowlands. Lets say a Venthyr kills a footman and that footman goes to Revendreath then sees the same Venthyr that killed him? That is just silly. Or if a Kyrian refused to ferry the souls of the Horde because they are now a member of the Alliance.

As far as the Vulpera are concerned they have known the Zandalari Trolls forever which makes the Horde a natural option for them. Once again I repeat the covenant races have no connection to Azeroth beyond souls of Azerothians who died and joined their covenant. There is no room for any Shadowlands race to expand beyond the purpose of their covenant. Also the Venthyr are dependent on Anima like every other Shadowlands covenant they all need anima because its what keeps the flow of the Shadowlands in order. The Venthyr are and aren't traditional vampires because they don't feed on blood but are sustained by anima. The San'layn actually use blood magic and feed on blood to power themselves. The San'layn are also not wiped out, just as someone could say they were wiped out at the end of Wrath they come back to us in Bfa. Its easy to write in more groups of San'layn who served the Lich King because tons of Blood/High Elves died at the hands of the Scourge. The San'layn actually have a reason to join the Horde because the undead are already part of the Horde and some may still feel loyalty to Quel'thalas. I do not consider the San'layn a downgrade from the Venthyr and would actually consider them more vampirie like than them because they actually feed on blood.

[username993720]

I've never claimed that my feelings on their depiction are anything other than subjective? (Where i don't believe that the Venthyr models and character design really lives up to the Vampire fantasy, as well as the Darkfallen) That said i still stand behind my point of their animation rig having to be significantly expanded, as something that works against them, in terms of actually getting on the level of the more lackluster ARs we've seen. *ahem* Nightborne *ahem*

I guess Venthyr are more oldschool vampires, Nosferatu-style, while the San'layn are a more pop culture depiction of them.

Like that ever stopped Blizzard

On a serious note it's easy enough to explain away, with there just being more of them than one ship's worth, in the group Sylvanas bargained with or have them be freed from Bolvar, when the helm got shattered and joining the one group, which has a history of accepting ex-scourge, without too many questions. And as i said there is a possibility of getting the best of both worlds here, if Blizzard were to play their cards right. We know they're willing to basically make an Aliance race, for largely cosmetic purposes, from the Mag'har, Zandalari, Dark Irons and such. Where they can just have the art team go wild with incredibly diverse customisation options, without having to do basically anything on the back end. (which is the poitn of allied races)

Well, who would it be the Allied race of? Blood elves already got the Nightborne and i feel Calia-like undead are more likely than San'layn for the Forsaken.

While we helped the covenants they also supplied us with otherworldly powers and artifacts for us to help them restore order.

It was more of a gift than a means of slaying the Jailer.

Beings in the Shadowlands don't care about Mortal affairs and they never will.

Well, they do now that we're involved with them. They witnessed our might. How we, mortals, saved their realm and restored order and how crucial we are to the cosmic battles going on.

I think its clear at the end of Shadowlands we are just going to pickup and leave once everything is settled and done.

And guess who's gonna come back with us. If not now, then later (like the Mag'har).

I could see Prince Renethal scoffing at the idea of us saying "hey since we helped you, you need to help us".

Scoffing? The guy cannot be more thankful that we deposed his corrupted ruler and restored Revendreth to its rightful purpose.

The covenants don't owe us anything because the relationship the players have with them is mutual.

Not so much. While the Shadowlands will be saved for good, we would not retain covenant abilities and soulbinds

It is in the best interests of everyone involved to help restore order to the Shadowlands beyond that mission there is no reason for the players to be there anymore or for the Shadowlands covenants to be involved with our affairs.

Of course there is. You forget Death is a player in the cosmic war. Let one force overpower the others and the universe is kaput. It's in their best interest to help us against other forces.

So I would not say they are "dependent" on us because we are also dependent on them because they provided us with power boosts and the tools to help them out.

Weird. Because they could have given that to anyone, but at the end of the day, we are the special mortal that saved the Shadowlands. Not anyone else.

The Horde and Alliance thing is also not just a technicality its literally a core part of Warcraft.

I meant for them joining us. I see it more being for PvE reasons. But there isn't a lack of PvP reasons, either. For example, i don't believe Kyrian think highly of the Maldraxxian after what they'e endured at their hands. And before you say it was traitorous Vyraz, even Ma'ghar, who did not fight Lightforged Draenei but Lightbound Draenei, wished to see their kind dead in BfA.

Each faction has specific reasons why they banded together possible out of desperation or because they share commonality.

That's exactly why. Kyrian share a lot in common with the Humans, Sylvar with Night elves, Maldraxxian with Orcs and Venthyr with Blood elves.

Do you expect a Venthyr to swear the blood oath to the Horde?

Yes. I don't see why not.

The Venthyr have a purpose and simply just want to get back to redeeming the wicked souls sent to them. Just like all the shadowlands races they all express a strong desire to get back to their purpose. Races of the Shadowlands have no reason to ever start killing mortals over a faction war because they "owe us". That would ruin the purpose of their duties to the Shadowlands.

Not all of them have to join us and not all of them have to stay behind. Those feeling more adventurous and explorative, like the Wandering Isle Pandaren, will come with us while the rest keep about their duties. There's no short supply of souls turning into one of them to fill the gap in numbers.

Lets say a Venthyr kills a footman and that footman goes to Revendreath then sees the same Venthyr that killed him? That is just silly. Or if a Kyrian refused to ferry the souls of the Horde because they are now a member of the Alliance.

Why would the Venthyr be in the Shadowlands if it killed the footman on Azeroth?

Why would a Kyrian ferry the soul of a dead Horde memeber? They relinquished their duties when they came with us. Besides, we will get the wingless ones anyway.

As far as the Vulpera are concerned they have known the Zandalari Trolls forever which makes the Horde a natural option for them. Once again I repeat the covenant races have no connection to Azeroth beyond souls of Azerothians who died and joined their covenant.

For the last time. We are from Azeroth. We are the unique mortals who literally saved their entire plane of existence. If they didn't have any conncection prior to it, they do now. And, oh boy, what a connection it is. We forged a bond with them.

There is no room for any Shadowlands race to expand beyond the purpose of their covenant.

That is just shortsighted.

Also the Venthyr are dependent on Anima like every other Shadowlands covenant they all need anima because its what keeps the flow of the Shadowlands in order.

So did Blood elves and Nightborne. What a coincidence, eh? And look at them now. Undependant on the substance that nourished them. I wonder what would happen to the Venthyr in that case

Venthyr need it directly. The other just need it for their realms.

The Venthyr are and aren't traditional vampires because they don't feed on blood but are sustained by anima.

Funny how the anima they consume is red, eh?
Almost like they were insinuating their vampiric nature.

The San'layn actually use blood magic and feed on blood to power themselves. The San'layn are also not wiped out, just as someone could say they were wiped out at the end of Wrath they come back to us in Bfa. Its easy to write in more groups of San'layn who served the Lich King because tons of Blood/High Elves died at the hands of the Scourge. The San'layn actually have a reason to join the Horde because the undead are already part of the Horde and some may still feel loyalty to Quel'thalas. I do not consider the San'layn a downgrade from the Venthyr and would actually consider them more vampirie like than them because they actually feed on blood.

They're still converted blood elves, while venthyr are their own standalone race.

[Mace]

Since the developers have stated the next expansion will be getting back to WoW's roots and focus more on the smaller stories of Azeroth what do you all presume will be the next race and/or allied races to join the Horde and Alliance? These are my choices for future races/allied race. Lets see yours!

Horde

Ogres- Ogres have been a long desired race for the Horde since classic. They were considered for Cata but ultimately the developers chose Goblins instead. The Ogres have a large amount of lore and history with the Horde and it is long overdue for the Stonemaul Clan to be inducted into the Horde and become a playable race. Ogre lore has also been significantly expanded upon with WoD and Chronicles to make the race less of a dumb brute race but a more intelligent race with a deep history. Racial Mount Boar. The classes I believe Ogres would be are: Death Knight, Warrior, Hunter, Shaman, Monk, Mage, Priest, Warlock.

Mogu- This one is a bit more controversial but I believe the Mogu could be a candidate for a future playable race. With the Mogu's relationship to the Zandalari Trolls this could be the established link for a Mogu Clan to be introduced into the Horde. The Mogu have a developed lore and history that is established and could be a potential candidate for a playable race. The one problem with the Mogu is the lack of females in their culture but as we know Retcons are a thing and to be honest I don't see the retcon of female mogu being lore breaking. Racial Mount: Quilen. Classes: Warrior, Rogue, Hunter, Shaman, Mage, Warlock

Horde Allied Race

San'layn (Darkfallen): I understand that many people are against the addition of more Elves into the game; however, playable undead elves that are not death knights have been a long sought after race. I agree that that after the San'layn there should probably not be any more Elves added into the game but because of the long desired customizations to be an undead elf it justifies the adding of the San'layn. The San'layn have already been established in the lore and was hinted at becoming an allied race during the alliance war campaign. I believe it makes sense for the San'layn to finally reach out to the Forsaken and seek out joining the Horde. Mount: Undead Hawkstrider. Classes: Death Knight, Warrior, Rogue, Hunter, Mage, Priest, Warlock.

Alliance

Vrykul: The ancestors of the human race is a possible addition to the Alliance. The Kul Tirans have established a relationship with a surviving Drust and it is possible they could use that connection to bridge more Vrykul to join the Alliance. As a titanforged race it would make sense for them to join the Alliance because their race has faced hardship since Wrath and could probably benefit them to be inducted into the alliance. This is another race with an established lore and would be a fun one to play. Racial Mount: Bear. Classes: Death Knight, Warrior, Hunter, Shaman, Druid, Priest, Mage, (Warlock?)

Jinyu: This one is a bit more out there but the Jinyu are already part of the alliance and are a unique race that could be added into the Alliance as playable. They dont have much lore but this could be expanded upon and provide the Alliance with a more primal type race. I think it is possible to introduce the Jinyu as a playable race however my only issue is that I wonder how many people would play a fish person race? Mount: Waterstrider. Classes: Warrior, Hunter, Rogue, Monk, Mage, Priest, Shaman.

Alliance Allied Race

Broken (Krokul): The broken have been long part of the Alliance and it is also a bit weird that we just ditched the Krokul on Argus and just left with the Lightforged instead. I think it makes sense to introduce the Broken from Azeroth, Outland, and Argus into the Alliance. The broken are a very cool race that would make a great allied race given their lore history. It would also be a way to add a Draenei type race with more darker attributes. Racial Mount: Talbuk or Ruinstrider. Classes: Death Knight, Warrior, Hunter, Rogue, Monk, Shaman, Warlock, Priest, Mage.

I'm sorry.. the alliance races you put down are boring as fuck. Seriously, the alliance needs to get really cool stuff. Perceivably cooler than the horde if you don't want the faction to just disappear.

Jinyu? Broken? - seriously? eek

Why don't we have Night elf worgen and Naga Elves?

Alliance

Naz'dorei - Naga Elves
Based on the concept by @Big Mama

Also a dual form race, can transform into a full naga, or a humanoid elven version of that has some sea customisations. [Potential background story ]This faction of elves have been undermining Azshara for the last 10,000 years, waiting for an opportunity to break completely free. they finally found an opening and were somewhat partially successfully in restoring their original elven form. However, some more permanent changes had occurred. Leaving them as follows

While in water, they automatically transform into naga form, and while mounted they automatically transform into their elf form - however you are free to choose to fight or travel in whatever form you prefer. They aren't locked into one form in combat like the worgen.
[Don't worry about my background story for them, I'm sure blizzard would make a far more polished one]

Classes: Shaman, Mage, Priest, Warlock, Hunter, Warrior, Rogue, Druid, Monk

Alliance Allied Race



The Fangfire - Dream Worgen types (with a twist)
Millennia in the emerald dream, these night elvens originally trapped for their own safety and that of the world their new f orms were too dangerous and unstable to allow to roam free, have been free to return to Azeroth since the breach of the Emerald dream in the final invasion of the legion.

Restored to sanity by the Scythe of Elune, these new family of elves have embraced the totem of several powerful wild gods they bare transfomration to.

As a new allied race, you can choose the the worgen form, the bird man form (looks like a high arrakoa), the panther man form (looks like the saberon) and the bear man form (like the guardian druid mage tower form).
The night elf form has special unique customisation that reflect your beast man form. Such as feathered arms, or faun legs, branched arms like the keeper of the grove, antlers too.

Choose one of 4 beastman form:



Customise Elf form
Different types of antlers,
Different types of feathered arms
Different types of torso or animal legs
Optional gnarled wooden hands (like Keepers of the grove) or beast clawed arms like Malfurion's gear

(this image by Angju)


(this image by Won Lee)

Classes:
Druid, Hunter, Priest, Warlock, Warrior, Rogue, Shaman, Monk

[Syegfryed]

I'm sorry.. the alliance races you put down are boring as fuck. Seriously, the alliance needs to get really cool stuff. Perceivably cooler than the horde if you don't want the faction to just disappear.

Jinyu? Broken? - seriously? eek

Why don't we have Night elf worgen and Naga Elves?

an yes, the good old "all those races are bad/boring, why don't we bring more elves, who totally are not boring and bad"

Broken/krokun and jinyu hold be millions times better than more elf variations.

Add tot he list Botani and sethrak, who are much better options than more elves

[sighy]

Well, who would it be the Allied race of? Blood elves already got the Nightborne and i feel Calia-like undead are more likely than San'layn for the Forsaken.

They could be both Blood Elf and Forsaken, because a decent portion of the Forsaken is supposed to be former high elves and the Dark Ranger/San'layn side of customisation seems to be rather desired.

Nightborne kinda struck me as giving a Night Elf(ish) option to the Horde, even tho the story is to the blelves kind of like the meme of two spidermen pointing at each other.

Lightbound undead strike me as a more Aliance option, especially given the Horde sentiment about binding oneself to a cosmic force being largely negative, even outside the Mag'har the story generally points to the general trend of "Drink the coolaid and you get screwed".

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an yes, the good old "all those races are bad/boring, why don't we bring more elves, who totally are not boring and bad"

Broken/krokun and jinyu hold be millions times better than more elf variations.

Add tot he list Botani and sethrak, who are much better options than more elves

The monstrous races would require significantly more work on Blizzard's part, especially those that have things like a wierd head or are barely even humanoid.

[Feril]

I want "mercenaries" (lacking a cooler sounding name), no more forced-faction races.

[Mace]

an yes, the good old "all those races are bad/boring, why don't we bring more elves, who totally are not boring and bad"

Broken/krokun and jinyu hold be millions times better than more elf variations.

Add tot he list Botani and sethrak, who are much better options than more elves

Yes, what a surprise that I am entitled to my opinion of what is exciting.

To be honest, Night Fae and Venthyr or Kyrian for the alliance would be very exciting too.

You are a horde player, but the alliance side actually really likes elves. Didn't you notice the high elf thread?

[geco]

Yes, what a surprise that I am entitled to my opinion of what is exciting.

To be honest, Night Fae and Venthyr or Kyrian for the alliance would be very exciting too.

You are a horde player, but the alliance side actually really likes elves. Didn't you notice the high elf thread?

1 thanks for crawling those nagas. those are my naga idae or something similar to that.

2 really something interesting is that in truth the Horde has 4 races of Elves. Why WoW Trolls are a kind of elf race (or 4 Troll races). So the Alliance really needs more races of Troll Elves or native to Azeroth. Almost all the races of the Alliance are "titanic creations" and they are already too much (and very monotonous to each other and I am not just saying it)

PS: the broken would not be boring. the Dranei of light are.

I want "mercenaries" (lacking a cooler sounding name), no more forced-faction races.

It would be a good thing. Because they do not need to add Policy or reason to be there.
For example, if the Eternal-Night were mercenaries, their race would not have all become Hypocrites worthy of Azhara. Only the player and the Player can choose not to make a micion or easily redeem themselves.

[Mace]

1 thanks for crawling those nagas. those are my naga idae or something similar to that.

2 really something interesting is that in truth the Horde has 4 races of Elves. Why WoW Trolls are a kind of elf race (or 4 Troll races). So the Alliance really needs more races of Troll Elves or native to Azeroth. Almost all the races of the Alliance are "titanic creations" and they are already too much (and very monotonous to each other and I am not just saying it)

PS: the broken would not be boring. the Dranei of light are.



It would be a good thing. Because they do not need to add Policy or reason to be there.
For example, if the Eternal-Night were mercenaries, their race would not have all become Hypocrites worthy of Azhara. Only the player and the Player can choose not to make a micion or easily redeem themselves.

It's not that the alliance races look titanic that is making the alliance boring, they're just nort written to do anything interesting becasue the writers have been fixated on the horde for so long, they didn't develop the alliance. It really is a choice, they admitted a while back they found it difficult to write for the alliance - to me this is basically saying, we're more interested in the horde.

If you were interested in the alliance, trust me, you wouln'dtfind it difficult to write for - not with races like Night elves and all that incredible lore to pool from, Draenei too, dwarves - worgen..and you tell me that humans is all you think of? Even humans can be quite interested as Wc2 shows and like the millions of stories that only e ver have one race...

[Syegfryed]

The monstrous races would require significantly more work on Blizzard's part, especially those that have things like a wierd head or are barely even humanoid.

for the price people pay for this game they better put work and effort in those races and not bring more shit elves because is easier

nevertheless, making elf naga and worgen elves would be as much work or even more

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Yes, what a surprise that I am entitled to my opinion of what is exciting.

To be honest, Night Fae and Venthyr or Kyrian for the alliance would be very exciting too.

thing is you are saying other races are "bad and boring" because they are not elves, thats just funny.

You are a horde player, but the alliance side actually really likes elves. Didn't you notice the high elf thread?

you mean a group of few people screaming about it, yeah, im aware of the loud minority, im also aware of bunch of alliance players not wanting then, neither wanting more

and since they already put their colors into void elves, no one want more elves people are of it exactly because of those hE threads.

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2 really something interesting is that in truth the Horde has 4 races of Elves. Why WoW Trolls are a kind of elf race (or 4 Troll races). So the Alliance really needs more races of Troll Elves or native to Azeroth. Almost all the races of the Alliance are "titanic creations" and they are already too much (and very monotonous to each other and I am not just saying it)

?? what this even mean, horde have not 4 races of elves and trolls would never go to alliance.

[geco]

It's not that the alliance races look titanic that is making the alliance boring, they're just nort written to do anything interesting becasue the writers have been fixated on the horde for so long, they didn't develop the alliance. It really is a choice, they admitted a while back they found it difficult to write for the alliance - to me this is basically saying, we're more interested in the horde.

If you were interested in the alliance, trust me, you wouln'dtfind it difficult to write for - not with races like Night elves and all that incredible lore to pool from, Draenei too, dwarves - worgen..and you tell me that humans is all you think of? Even humans can be quite interested as Wc2 shows and like the millions of stories that only e ver have one race...

Well if you realize the kaldorei have almost as many novels and lore as almost the rest of the alliance together, if not more. (Then it is usually always lore of bad things which is something else)

The point is that the rest of the Alliance are Humans ... short humans and humans of another flavor.

What's more, right now we have an "elven council" capable of having a core discussion. But the other races of the Alliance are reduced to do what Anduin say.

------
In short, in my opinion, that phrase translates into something like this. "Are Dwarves, Genemos, and Warguen supposed to be something other than humans?"

[shoc]

Never understand why people cling to the most boring concepts, like Ogre and Naga, and then boil them down even further. Like what kind of unimaginative hell did the Naga-Elves crawl out from, literally takes everything cool about Naga (crocodile heads, four arms, tails) and chucks it in the trash.

[sighy]

for the price people pay for this game they better put work and effort in those races and not bring more shit elves because is easier

nevertheless, making elf naga and worgen elves would be as much work or even more

Well that comes down to if they believe the amount of work is disproportionate to the play the races would see. (Like the Pandaren) I can appreciate you not liking elves and wanting something different, but to put it bluntly the reason we get so much elf stuff is because they're dominating playrates and they make races prettier, because they believe it will improve their odds of being played.

Worgen Elves are pointless it's basically the same thing as normal Worgens except it changes into a Night Elf and Mace's concept for Kaldorei-Naga hybrids kind of strikes me as the worst of both worlds option, with them kind of ending up as lame knockoffs of the real thing, but not managing to live up to either. And i disagree with his assessment of "Aliance needing cooler races than the Horde", what Aliance needs is an actually engaging story that goes somewhere and can't just be resolved by Varian beating someone up or Anduin's puppy eyes, in 5 minutes.

[username993720]

Naz'dorei - Naga Elves
Based on the concept by @Big Mama

Also a dual form race, can transform into a full naga, or a humanoid elven version of that has some sea customisations. [Potential background story ]This faction of elves have been undermining Azshara for the last 10,000 years, waiting for an opportunity to break completely free. they finally found an opening and were somewhat partially successfully in restoring their original elven form. However, some more permanent changes had occurred. Leaving them as follows

While in water, they automatically transform into naga form, and while mounted they automatically transform into their elf form - however you are free to choose to fight or travel in whatever form you prefer. They aren't locked into one form in combat like the worgen.
[Don't worry about my background story for them, I'm sure blizzard would make a far more polished one]

Classes: Shaman, Mage, Priest, Warlock, Hunter, Warrior, Rogue, Druid, Monk

How about them using the Sethrak skeleton instead? They already have the snake body movements and their legs compensate for the lack of it in the Naga model. I'm saying this because those fish Night elves would look too similar to Gilgoblins. Besides, people would prefer to be mostly in the epic Naga form anyway.

The Fangfire - Dream Worgen types (with a twist)
Millennia in the emerald dream, these night elvens originally trapped for their own safety and that of the world their new f orms were too dangerous and unstable to allow to roam free, have been free to return to Azeroth since the breach of the Emerald dream in the final invasion of the legion.

Restored to sanity by the Scythe of Elune, these new family of elves have embraced the totem of several powerful wild gods they bare transfomration to.

As a new allied race, you can choose the the worgen form, the bird man form (looks like a high arrakoa), the panther man form (looks like the saberon) and the bear man form (like the guardian druid mage tower form).
The night elf form has special unique customisation that reflect your beast man form. Such as feathered arms, or faun legs, branched arms like the keeper of the grove, antlers too.

Choose one of 4 beastman form:

You're just taking away from potential standalone races. Bird form would be at the expense of Arakkoa, Bear form at the expense of Furbolg, Tigon at the expense of Saberon and we already have Worgen.

Customise Elf form
Different types of antlers,
Different types of feathered arms
Different types of torso or animal legs
Optional gnarled wooden hands (like Keepers of the grove) or beast clawed arms like Malfurion's gear

Had a similar idea:

They could be both Blood Elf and Forsaken, because a decent portion of the Forsaken is supposed to be former high elves and the Dark Ranger/San'layn side of customisation seems to be rather desired.

Do not confuse the two. Dark Rangers are not vampires, and San'layn are not Dark Rangers. If you merely desire those 2 customization options, wait for a Dark Ranger class i guess.

Nightborne kinda struck me as giving a Night Elf(ish) option to the Horde, even tho the story is to the blelves kind of like the meme of two spidermen pointing at each other.

So Void elf. The point still stands.

Lightbound undead strike me as a more Aliance option, especially given the Horde sentiment about binding oneself to a cosmic force being largely negative, even outside the Mag'har the story generally points to the general trend of "Drink the coolaid and you get screwed".

So did i think. But, they officially joined the Horde in Shadows Rising.

[sighy]

Do not confuse the two. Dark Rangers are not vampires, and San'layn are not Dark Rangers. If you merely desire those 2 customization options, wait for a Dark Ranger class i guess.

I don't confuse them. I'm saying that there is non-negligible appeal to the undead high elf nishe and recognising that they can do way more with the San'layn, especially given that the Dark Ranger kit has been baked into the Hunter class ages ago and as much as i don't care for Hunters I'd hate for any class to go through what Warlocks did coming into Legion. Just noting that from a purely cosmetic standpoint the Dark Rangers do overlap, with the San'layn.

So Void elf. The point still stands.

Having 2 kinds of human already didn't stop them from releasing Kul'tirans. (Who are basically a proper race, in terms of actual work that went into them)

So did i think. But, they officially joined the Horde in Shadows Rising.

The fact that they have to lie about it in the marketing campaign is likely indicative of how popular THAT course is, with the people actually invested in the Forsaken. Just willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that there might be a story down the line, because Calia basically runs counter to everythign appealing about the Forsakena nd runs counter to the overall message of relying on cosmic godlike forces inevitably leading to disaster so in order to do things right you ahve to do them yourself. Basically every Horde race besides Tauren and Goblins has some variation of that thematic so forcing it down the Forsaken player's throats makes no sense. Especially since they seem to be poising the Light to be the next point of contention.

[username993720]

I don't confuse them. I'm saying that there is non-negligible appeal to the undead high elf nishe and recognising that they can do way more with the San'layn, especially given that the Dark Ranger kit has been baked into the Hunter class ages ago and as much as i don't care for Hunters I'd hate for any class to go through what Warlocks did coming into Legion. Just noting that from a purely cosmetic standpoint the Dark Rangers do overlap, with the San'layn.

First of all, Dark Rangers would barely take anything away from the Hunter. The class doesn't even have Black Arrow anymore.

Second of all, since you acknowledge that they do overlap, Venthyr and Dark Rangers are preferable.

Having 2 kinds of human already didn't stop them from releasing Kul'tirans. (Who are basically a proper race, in terms of actual work that went into them)

So, 2 kinds of vampires? How would they differ (like Kul Tirans, Gilneans and Stormwindians)

The fact that they have to lie about it in the marketing campaign is likely indicative of how popular THAT course is, with the people actually invested in the Forsaken. Just willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that there might be a story down the line, because Calia basically runs counter to everythign appealing about the Forsakena nd runs counter to the overall message of relying on cosmic godlike forces inevitably leading to disaster so in order to do things right you ahve to do them yourself. Basically every Horde race besides Tauren and Goblins has some variation of that thematic so forcing it down the Forsaken player's throats makes no sense. Especially since they seem to be poising the Light to be the next point of contention.

That's the case. I didn't come up with it. Blizard did.
And besides, Calia would be the only undead to be raised by the light. Derek wasn't and he looks just like her. So light wouldn't be their theme (considering Lightforged Draenei already took that theme). So, basically, they would represent intact undead Humans, like Nathanos for example.

[sighy]

First of all, Dark Rangers would barely take anything away from the Hunter. The class doesn't even have Black Arrow anymore.

Second of all, since you acknowledge that they do overlap, Venthyr and Dark Rangers are preferable.

Tying the undead elf nishe to a specific class doesn't really make sense, in the wake of DKs. IF anything Dark Ranger would likely be a sort of prestige variant of Hunter than it's own class due to the sheer amount of overlap between them. Not to mention it'd screw the casters and such out of said customisation.

So, 2 kinds of vampires? How would they differ (like Kul Tirans, Gilneans and Stormwindians)

What you quote is a response to your point about Nightborne and Void Elves. Venthyr would be redundant, if San'layn were made playable, but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be Venthyr inspired optional bits and bobs for them to choose from like more bat-like ears, claws, etc. For the people that like the more monstrous vampire depictions. So if you say find the oversized hands silly you could just not use them and still be an equally valid depiction of a vampire. Plus Blizz basically already figured out most of the technical stuff, when they made Demon Hunters, for adding of odd bits and bobs to the Blood Elf model/rig, which would make it vastly more efficient for them than bringing the Venthyr's unique rig up to par, with the player character ones.

That's the case. I didn't come up with it. Blizard did.
And besides, Calia would be the only undead to be raised by the light. Derek wasn't and he looks just like her. So light wouldn't be their theme (considering Lightforged Draenei already took that theme). So, basically, they would represent intact undead Humans, like Nathanos for example.

Whatever story they want to do with Calia is likely just beginning and nothing is set in stone yet. It would be much more difficult for them to get rid of her, if they did make lightbound undead a playable part of the Horde, for obvious reasons. I'm reasonably confident that they're aware of just how unpopular the Calia addition is,e specially given the context of what is happening with Sylvanas and that they outright lied in the Shadowlands marketing campaign about it. That's why i would call them doubling down on it, in a way that's effectively irreversible a very questionable choice. (Not giving Forsaken human rig option that'd be nice, but tying it to Calia and the light would just be a bad idea, in the long run by my reckoning.)

[username993720]

Tying the undead elf nishe to a specific class doesn't really make sense, in the wake of DKs. IF anything Dark Ranger would likely be a sort of prestige variant of Hunter than it's own class due to the sheer amount of overlap between them. Not to mention it'd screw the casters and such out of said customisation.

"Sheer amount" = the use of bow and arrow.
Can't you be paled skin as a Void elf? Only thing missing are red eyes.

What you quote is a response to your point about Nightborne and Void Elves. Venthyr would be redundant, if San'layn were made playable, but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be Venthyr inspired optional bits and bobs for them to choose from like more bat-like ears, claws, etc. For the people that like the more monstrous vampire depictions. So if you say find the oversized hands silly you could just not use them and still be an equally valid depiction of a vampire. Plus Blizz basically already figured out most of the technical stuff, when they made Demon Hunters, for adding of odd bits and bobs to the Blood Elf model/rig, which would make it vastly more efficient for them than bringing the Venthyr's unique rig up to par, with the player character ones.

But, they already did. You want them to toss that all aside? Meanwhile, the San'layn models were never updated.

Whatever story they want to do with Calia is likely just beginning and nothing is set in stone yet. It would be much more difficult for them to get rid of her, if they did make lightbound undead a playable part of the Horde, for obvious reasons. I'm reasonably confident that they're aware of just how unpopular the Calia addition is,e specially given the context of what is happening with Sylvanas and that they outright lied in the Shadowlands marketing campaign about it. That's why i would call them doubling down on it, in a way that's effectively irreversible a very questionable choice. (Not giving Forsaken human rig option that'd be nice, but tying it to Calia and the light would just be a bad idea, in the long run by my reckoning.)

Again, nothing indicates that they would be a light-based race.

[Mace]

How about them using the Sethrak skeleton instead? They already have the snake body movements and their legs compensate for the lack of it in the Naga model. I'm saying this because those fish Night elves would look too similar to Gilgoblins. Besides, people would prefer to be mostly in the epic Naga form anyway.

Except no body wants to play goblins, and those sea elf mock ups by big mama looked stunning and highly desirable juding from the responses to his presentation here:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ht=naz%27dorei

It's clear some people would prefer to mostly be in naga form, but some also would love the elf form too as a preferred option appreciating the occasional transformation. You just get more traction with both - and to be honest, blizzard need to be putting out much higher quality stuff that can excite and appeal to many people.

Monster races just by themselves are fascinating to some, but usually not very popular overall, elf races always are, and if you do them well together, it would be a huge hit. Getting both the monster lovers and the elf lovers in one. Blizzard can't afford lacklustre, they need a new expansion where every new feature is an incredible hit with the players, especially on the alliance side that's basically disappearing.

AS for using the Sethrak skeleton? Why? they should use the naga one. The night elf model will already sort out the gearing for the elf form side of the race. I don't know if the naga form is based on an already playable race with the legs and feet just changed.

You're just taking away from potential standalone races. Bird form would be at the expense of Arakkoa, Bear form at the expense of Furbolg, Tigon at the expense of Saberon and we already have Worgen.

There are tons of races introduced that never get or will become playable, and blizzard invents new ones all the time, making an allied race a bit more exciting by giving it more than one beast form in line with it's theme makes it far punchier, even if it may seem to sacrifice arrakoa, Saberon and furbolg - which fyi it doesn't, especially if you skin the face differently.

Gear wise, the elf form will use night elves ofc for it's gearing, the birdman form will use night elves again (just like Botanni and Zandalari do), the Panther/Saberon and Worgen will use worgen skeleton for gear, , the bear man might be the only challenging one - it kinda looks like a hunched down male draenei with a shrunk down worgen lower torso.

I suspect it would be great fun to design.

Had a similar idea:
https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets...jpg?1423848070
https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets...jpg?1443928927

These are all good, the idea being the elf form is not a normal night elf, but modified. I'm imagining you could make the elf form very animal looking or an almost ordinary night elf - like you could do with the demon hunter.

Both of the options I presented can be allied races, although the Naga one can be a full new race because of the naga form. None of this is new, they've based entirely on existing blizzard races (e.g. the naga elf form is a night elf extensive version of the gilgoblin, naga ofc has been there for ages, the Fangfire elf is basically Malfurion's armor allowed to be acual animal parts instead of just armor (incl antlers), whiles the beastman forms already exist in the form of the Arrakoa/Saberon/druid guardian form and some of the Zul'aman/Gurub bosses.

It's all their assets, but combined in a powerful way, with upgrades in texture and appearances to look really good whehter in elf form or the more beast like form.




For the alliance, a beast alone option is not going to be popular, but you couple it with an elf, and both the naga and night elf worgen lore are perfect to allow this as welll as being highly desirable, you will get a very popular reaction.

It might seriously help the alliance.

CAn you imagine how exciting those two races would be in addition to t the void elf/high elf cusotmisations and night elves being developed with an awesome new Zin'Azshari type city and being boosted in their lore? Draenei and Lightforge also getting versions of Shattrath and auchidouin from WoD rebuilt on Azeroth. While dwarves have Grim Batol and Aeries peak done well they're looking like Erebor in the hobbit.

Ad to that these two new races, the alliance can become pretty exciting. The horde isn't left behind. Mogu, Ogres and San'layn vampire remodelled version is also pretty damn dope



They seriously need to setup up new races/allied races they do, especially for the alliance side. Horde side, OP has some great ideas, Ogres have been long overdue for yonks, Mogu are a stunning race and San'layn vampires brings it's own excitment. A revamp should owrk more heavily on non-human alliance races like void/high elves, night elves, draenei, dwarves - the horde ones already got so much in place, i would say of the existing races, just revamp Silvermoon and give the Forsaken a new city - (i would say both Icecrown Citadel and NAxxaramus for the San'layn).


Alliance:
Naz'dorei race: Naz'jatar capital
Fangfire race: Shal'anir, Shaladarassil: Capital

Night elves: Elun'dris (basically rebuilt Zin'Azshari in it's original name) + Nar'thalas + Eldre'thalas
Void elves: New Void city - based on Silvermoon, but with void elf theme adaptations
Draenei: New Shattrath City, based on Shattrath in Alternate Draenor
Lightforged Draenei: New Auchindoin, based on Auchindouin in Alternate Draenei
Dwarves: Ironforge + Aeries Peak + Grim Batol + Thauarissian city revamp.


Horde:
San'layn: vampire customisations + Naxxaramus type floating Necropolis capital (remodelled(
Mogu: Race, new Isle of Thunder capital city
Ogres: Farahlon opened up but as a new zone on Azeroth complete with an Ogre city using concepts and assets from WoD

Blood elves: Silvermoon + Quel'danis isle and Magister terrace revamped to a proper city
Forsaken: Icecrown Citadel revamped for new home of the forsaken + ruins of Theramore new Undercity
Lightforged Forsaken: new playable race in a new concept that shares with playable humans in Lordaeron revamped (it basically becomes a joint capital for both factions)

I think anyone will be excited for both factions. The alliance has a little bit more, and I think is more exciting, but that's the point, you want people to jump on it more so you need more work on it's existing races and you need it's new races to be major hits without leaving the horde behind.

I feel this is an almost perfect weight.

[Khamnin]

I will just drop my quick thoughts on who should be playable:

The races *already* in each faction.

Horde
Ogre
Mok'nathal
Hozen
Taunka
Gilgoblins/Kelfin
Forest Trolls

Alliance
Broken/Krokuul
Furbolg
Frostborne Dwarf
Jinyu/Ankoan

I normally would add Wildhammer and Quel'dorei but they are already in as customizations - sadly. I am very against just merging one race into another as customization, it adds no characters, lore, etc.