1. #1241
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    But here's the thing: it's season 1 episode 5. He's supposed to be incredibly stoic, and he's broken by the first guy he sees die? How is this guy gonna get through the series?
    Stoic, silent characters don't translate to screen well. There's also the bias we get in the books in terms of the character's POV painting their view of Lan just by selection. So I'd argue partly that Lan is probably less cold and stoic than we get to see in the books, and also that the show needs to make him human and emotional to have an actual character that's interesting to watch.

  2. #1242
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Well that kinda came out of nowhere. I'm sorry you feel angered by these people.
    You're all good, I don't let them anger me. I typically laugh if I have any emotion at all towards them. They are just who I think about when I see forced diversity.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  3. #1243
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    But here's the thing: it's season 1 episode 5. He's supposed to be incredibly stoic, and he's broken by the first guy he sees die? How is this guy gonna get through the series?
    first guy? just some random stranger???


    they literally establish in a previous episode that they are friends, possibly even best friends. your best friend kills themselves while you are asleep, when you specifically went to them to stay with them and help them through their grief, so you feel guilt for not stopping them in addition to grief over losing them...

    and Lan STILL stays stoic until he sees his own pain reflected at him in Morraine's eyes. given WHY his best friend committed suicide... it would take a sociopath NOT to break at that point and Lan is NOT a sociopath

  4. #1244
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    P.S. the warder and the Aes Sedai that died were in the books and also died. they just died off screen. show chose to have them show up, IMO to emphasize what the bond actualy is like, as well as to humanize both Aes Sedai and the warders.
    Sure they die in the books but it is the prequel one 20 years or so before eye of the world. Including them (the sister and one of her warders) is silly given their role in New World. Just as the break down of the Lan whose entire thing was no emotions in public in the books. They just keep making a lot of odd changes from the books that are not required and don't really make for a compelling story or TV show. Unless they are just going for cheap tricks to engage the audience. Then it seems to be working fine.

    But TV shows don't need to be that way.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #1245
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Sure they die in the books but it is the prequel one 20 years or so before eye of the world. Including them (the sister and one of her warders) is silly given their role in New World. Just as the break down of the Lan whose entire thing was no emotions in public in the books. They just keep making a lot of odd changes from the books that are not required and don't really make for a compelling story or TV show. Unless they are just going for cheap tricks to engage the audience. Then it seems to be working fine.

    But TV shows don't need to be that way.
    books let you see inner monologue of the characters. shows need to SHOW you that characters do feel emotions, because having them monologuing their feelings on screen while looking emotionless, pretty much never truly works. Dune chose to have Jessica breaking down in private and calming herself with a fear mantra. Wheel of time chose to show Lan dealing with loss of someone he greatly cared about without killing off any of the characters that need to stay around for the main story. so they took an existing character and repurposed them.

  6. #1246
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    first guy? just some random stranger???


    they literally establish in a previous episode that they are friends, possibly even best friends. your best friend kills themselves while you are asleep, when you specifically went to them to stay with them and help them through their grief, so you feel guilt for not stopping them in addition to grief over losing them...

    and Lan STILL stays stoic until he sees his own pain reflected at him in Morraine's eyes. given WHY his best friend committed suicide... it would take a sociopath NOT to break at that point and Lan is NOT a sociopath
    This is where I’m at a loss with this series. The first book in this series is about Rand. It’s a story told exclusively from his perspective, up until the point where they split up.

    Lan in that version is the guy Rand sees - the swordsmaster/mentor who constantly belittles Rand’s inexperience and immaturity (calling Rand “sheepherder”) while earning Rand’s respect due to his extreme skill and stamina (while also providing limited perspective into Moiraine, who is even more of a mystery). As the series progresses, you learn more.

    The series has skipped all that.

    The book Lan shares a lot of similarities to Aragorn - an outdoorsman, a warrior/guide, who is a member of a caste (Aragorn the Dunedain, Lan as a warder) but with hints that they are more than just ordinary. We see both from the perspective of the protagonist.

    LOTR movies kept this Aragorn somewhat intact and the story beats are very similar. In Wheel of Time, we’ve got a totally different thing for Lan.

  7. #1247
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    books let you see inner monologue of the characters. shows need to SHOW you that characters do feel emotions, because having them monologuing their feelings on screen while looking emotionless, pretty much never truly works.
    They easily could have had a scene with Lan in private showing his emotions. There is nothing about the film, or visual, format that requires you to bastardize characters so much.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #1248
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    This is where I’m at a loss with this series. The first book in this series is about Rand. It’s a story told exclusively from his perspective, up until the point where they split up.

    Lan in that version is the guy Rand sees - the swordsmaster/mentor who constantly belittles Rand’s inexperience and immaturity (calling Rand “sheepherder”) while earning Rand’s respect due to his extreme skill and stamina (while also providing limited perspective into Moiraine, who is even more of a mystery). As the series progresses, you learn more.

    The series has skipped all that.

    The book Lan shares a lot of similarities to Aragorn - an outdoorsman, a warrior/guide, who is a member of a caste (Aragorn the Dunedain, Lan as a warder) but with hints that they are more than just ordinary. We see both from the perspective of the protagonist.

    LOTR movies kept this Aragorn somewhat intact and the story beats are very similar. In Wheel of Time, we’ve got a totally different thing for Lan.
    That's all intentional. Rafe wanted the series to start closer to the ensemble feeling of the POVs the book turns into, rather than having a very Rand-centric first book.

  9. #1249
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    This is where I’m at a loss with this series. The first book in this series is about Rand. It’s a story told exclusively from his perspective, up until the point where they split up.

    Lan in that version is the guy Rand sees - the swordsmaster/mentor who constantly belittles Rand’s inexperience and immaturity (calling Rand “sheepherder”) while earning Rand’s respect due to his extreme skill and stamina (while also providing limited perspective into Moiraine, who is even more of a mystery). As the series progresses, you learn more.

    The series has skipped all that.

    The book Lan shares a lot of similarities to Aragorn - an outdoorsman, a warrior/guide, who is a member of a caste (Aragorn the Dunedain, Lan as a warder) but with hints that they are more than just ordinary. We see both from the perspective of the protagonist.

    LOTR movies kept this Aragorn somewhat intact and the story beats are very similar. In Wheel of Time, we’ve got a totally different thing for Lan.
    Rand's version of Lan sounds like an asshole that Nyneave would be far too smart to fall for. show's Lan still comes across very Aragorn like (especially the way movies portrayed Aragorn), so I'm guessing they just skipped to showing what Lan is actualy like instead of sticking to limited perspective of a single character for half the season.

  10. #1250
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    Rand's version of Lan sounds like an asshole that Nyneave would be far too smart to fall for. show's Lan still comes across very Aragorn like (especially the way movies portrayed Aragorn), so I'm guessing they just skipped to showing what Lan is actualy like instead of sticking to limited perspective of a single character for half the season.
    The book version of Lan is a hardass but it is more that he’s been shaped that way by the life he’s led. Nynaeve is able to break through the exterior. He’s awesome by the way.

  11. #1251
    This show is pretty bad with really stale performances, bad costumes, set designs and dialogue.

    it's also super slow paced, over halfway through and I don't care about any of these characters, the main guy barely gets screentime, too much of the show is being taken up by silent moments between two characters.

  12. #1252
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    This show is pretty bad with really stale performances, bad costumes, set designs and dialogue.

    it's also super slow paced, over halfway through and I don't care about any of these characters, the main guy barely gets screentime, too much of the show is being taken up by silent moments between two characters.
    I'm sorry you feel that way.

  13. #1253
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    The book version of Lan is a hardass but it is more that he’s been shaped that way by the life he’s led. Nynaeve is able to break through the exterior. He’s awesome by the way.
    eh. I think prefer show version.

  14. #1254
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    and Lan STILL stays stoic until he sees his own pain reflected at him in Morraine's eyes. given WHY his best friend committed suicide... it would take a sociopath NOT to break at that point and Lan is NOT a sociopath
    He might be his best friend in this tepid excuse for an adaptation. But in the books Moiraine is his best friend.
    Before that the closest friends he had were his teachers, the five that survived getting him away from Malkieri and taught him everything, who it can be said were his family. Maybe he cried the first time when one died, and maybe the 2nd time. Eventually he's one man waging a war. He's already accepted death.

    Oh wait! We're not talking the books...we're talking this...failed characterization of a character in a book being portrayed in some show.
    Nevermind.

  15. #1255
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    I'm sorry you feel that way.
    par for the course with a lot of these teen drama fantasy series that seem to be churned out. this show reminds me a lot of legend of the seeker, where 80% of the show is set in a vaguely european-north american forest with cosplay tier costumes and D&D homebrew dialogue.

  16. #1256
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    par for the course with a lot of these teen drama fantasy series that seem to be churned out. this show reminds me a lot of legend of the seeker, where 80% of the show is set in a vaguely european-north american forest with cosplay tier costumes and D&D homebrew dialogue.
    you seem to have pretty strong feelings about it

  17. #1257
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    This show is pretty bad with really stale performances, bad costumes, set designs and dialogue.

    it's also super slow paced, over halfway through and I don't care about any of these characters, the main guy barely gets screentime, too much of the show is being taken up by silent moments between two characters.
    The only thing you can do at this point is to stop watching the show. Lowering the viewership will get this tossed sooner than later and then maybe someone will come along and decide to get it done the right way.

  18. #1258
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    The only thing you can do at this point is to stop watching the show. Lowering the viewership will get this tossed sooner than later and then maybe someone will come along and decide to get it done the right way.
    Don't forget to keep complaining about it online and trying to convince others of how bad a show you think it is.

  19. #1259
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Don't forget to keep complaining about it online and trying to convince others of how bad a show you think it is.
    Dragonmount already has their hands full.. I probably should join in...

  20. #1260
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Don't forget to keep complaining about it online and trying to convince others of how bad a show you think it is.
    are you saying that this thread titled the tv the wheel of time is not about the tv show, the wheel of time or what

    from what I can see, this thread has 64 pages of people discussing its source material, but very little about the production quality of the show. I haven't read the books, so I can only talk about my experiences with the show.

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