Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Santti]

As said, taking people from their homes and forcing them to quarantine is the defininition of faciscm.

I'd like to see this definition of yours.

[Breccia]

As said, taking people from their homes and forcing them to quarantine is the defininition of faciscm.

It literally is not.

[PhaelixWW]

As said, taking people from their homes and forcing them to quarantine is the defininition of faciscm.

Nah, bruv.

[Yuujin]

As said, taking people from their homes and forcing them to quarantine is the defininition of faciscm.

So predictable. Also, it isn't. If you're going to toss a word around, at least understand its meaning.

[Breccia]

If we're entertaining the Mayo Clinic, and good luck trying to discredit them:

So far, more than 38 million people have had COVID-19 in the U.S. as reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). More than 630,000 people have died of COVID-19 in the U.S. in 2020 and 2021.

By comparison, during the 2019-2020 flu season in the U.S., about 38 million people had the flu and about 22,000 people died of the flu.

The IFR are not the same. Anyone claiming they are the same, had better have better credentials than the Mayo Clinic. Good luck.

EDIT: I guess I should say, those were Americans. So that 30x death ratio, holy shit, did I read that right?

(double-checks math)

28.63, repeating of course, times. Ouch. Wow, the US in 2020 really sucked at this. Jeez. Anyhow, those results were for, sigh, Americans who were really not taking this seriously, see also Florida. But even if, for example, England was doing 10x better with COVID than the USA, the IFR would still be triple.

How is Britain doing these days?

(checks JHU)

(hits head on keyboard)

Yep, 1.15% or so, we just talked about that and cited it, stupid stupid stupid. BUT we also have the USA as...not ten times worse.

[Yuujin]

I'd like to see this definition of yours.

Definition of Faciscm
1. often confused with the word fascism: anything I disagree with.
2: The thing I accuse the Left of always accusing me of.
— Hypasonic

[Breccia]

The CDC has spoken up on the issue as well.

Also, there's more to it that means even if the IFR was the same, they're not that's factually false, but even if they were, COVID is still a bigger issue.
1) You are asymptomatic but contagiouis for longer.
2) There are more lingering effects and those effects are more serious.
3) Nobody called the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally a superspreader flu event.

[PhaelixWW]

If we're entertaining the Mayo Clinic, and good luck trying to discredit them:

So far, more than 38 million people have had COVID-19 in the U.S. as reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). More than 630,000 people have died of COVID-19 in the U.S. in 2020 and 2021.

By comparison, during the 2019-2020 flu season in the U.S., about 38 million people had the flu and about 22,000 people died of the flu.

The IFR are not the same. Anyone claiming they are the same, had better have better credentials than the Mayo Clinic. Good luck.

Lulz. That reminds me of this gem:

Heres some facts for you :

President Trump :
COVID-19 Coronavirus
US cases to date : 15,219
US deaths to date : 203
Panic level : Mass hysteria

President Obama
H1N1
US cases peak at time : 60.8 MILLION
US deaths peak at time : 12,469
Panic level : 0 panic/Nobody cares

[Breccia]

Lulz. That reminds me of this gem:

I don't even need to click that to tell you when it's from. Only 200 deaths? That's April 2020.

(clicks link)

Fuck. SO close!

[PhaelixWW]

EDIT: I guess I should say, those were Americans. So that 30x death ratio, holy shit, did I read that right?

(double-checks math)

28.63, repeating of course, times. Ouch. Wow, the US in 2020 really sucked at this. Jeez. Anyhow, those results were for, sigh, Americans who were really not taking this seriously, see also Florida. But even if, for example, England was doing 10x better with COVID than the USA, the IFR would still be triple.

You're looking at the CFR there, though, not the IFR. The CFR takes into account only those cases that are confirmed, not the total estimated amount of infections, reported or not, symptomatic or asymptomatic.

[Breccia]

You're looking at the CFR there, though, not the IFR. The CFR takes into account only those cases that are confirmed, not the total estimated amount of infections, reported or not, symptomatic or asymptomatic.

Ah, fair enough. That said, I'd like to assume the comparison between CFR of two diseases should generally still say which one is the more lethal once you have it, and could therefore still be used like IFR as a comparison. But, yeah, it's not IFR. My bad.

[PhaelixWW]

I'd like to assume the comparison between CFR of two diseases should generally still say which one is the more lethal once you have it, and could therefore still be used like IFR as a comparison.

Actually, the CFR for the flu is wildly different, because almost nobody gets tested for the flu. The CDC basically draws its estimate of the seasonal flu burden from a complex algorithm starting from the hospitalization rate that year.

[Breccia]

Actually, the CFR for the flu is wildly different, because almost nobody gets tested for the flu.

What I meant was, the CFR of COVID could be compared to the CFR of the flu. Which would be a lot easier if we had the CFR of the flu. You should not compare CFR of one disease vs. the IFR of another.

[Shadowferal]

Double doses on Pfizer..which would be a better booster?

[PhaelixWW]

What I meant was, the CFR of COVID could be compared to the CFR of the flu. Which would be a lot easier if we had the CFR of the flu. You should not compare CFR of one disease vs. the IFR of another.

Testing for COVID is obviously much, much higher, so the number of known cases is likewise much, much higher. You can't realistically compare the CFR of one disease with another for that reason. That's why they estimate the IFR in the first place, so that they have something that can be used to compare the two.

[Breccia]

Double doses on Pfizer..which would be a better booster?

This article is 2 days old. It should help.

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Testing for COVID is obviously much, much higher, so the number of known cases is likewise much, much higher. You can't realistically compare the CFR of one disease with another for that reason. That's why they estimate the IFR in the first place, so that they have something that can be used to compare the two.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Back to IFR then. I mentioned Indiana earlier. I recently found this, an entirely different non-British discussion of a claim that COVID and the flu had similiar IFR in the 0.1-0.3% range. I say "claim" because it appears to be Some Guy On Twitter, which has as much weight as "some guy on MMO-C who claims he has British studies then vanishes". Naturally, the discussion is "no, that's false".

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The claim that COVID has a flu-like IFR appears to originate from RT.

Incidentally that page and this one continue to go into detail about the IFR of COVID vs the flu, and other comparisons. It's what you expect: COVID is far worse.

[Rasulis]

Double doses on Pfizer..which would be a better booster?

Probably does not matter. I would get Moderna just for something different.

Try to do it on Friday or Saturday. I felt really tired when I received my booster shot. Tried biking on Saturday and even on flat it felt like I was pedaling up a 25% incline. My wife had it worse. Whenever she turned to her left side in bed, she ended up waking up screaming from the pain.

[postman1782]

Sorry but, as you can see in austrialia, they are literally going full fascism. Would you be happy being taken away for 14 days after being in close contact to a covid carrier?

No, they aren't. Are you one of those that literally believes that they are going into concentration camps? Are you really that gullible?

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A deadly virus? It has the same IFR as the flu.

Jesus fucking christ, you lied about masks in the UK, you claimed I was a flat earther in DMs, you claimed that Australians are being put in concentration camps, and now lying about fucking covid? Not surprising you are ignorant.

[Corvus]

Sorry but, as you can see in austrialia, they are literally going full fascism. Would you be happy being taken away for 14 days after being in close contact to a covid carrier?

Australian here. We have not gone full facism. The actual facists are the ones complaining against the government trying to protect society. Seriously, just go look at the protesters complaining about their 'freedoms' - there are a lot of far right types in it.

[Forogil]

Yeah, that makes sense.

Back to IFR then. I mentioned Indiana earlier. I recently found this, an entirely different non-British discussion of a claim that COVID and the flu had similiar IFR in the 0.1-0.3% range. I say "claim" because it appears to be Some Guy On Twitter, which has as much weight as "some guy on MMO-C who claims he has British studies then vanishes". Naturally, the discussion is "no, that's false".

And it is trivially easy to see that it is wrong.

Peru has a mortality rate of 0.6% in covid (in the US 0.24%). Not fatality per case, or per infected, but deaths in covid per inhabitants. That forms a floor for both ifr and cfr (excluding multiple infections not providing any protection).

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Here's a UK source saying that the IFR is 1.15% for high income countries, which is 10 times the IFR of the flu.

Here's another paper from only a few months ago that says the IFR in the EU countries is 0.51-0.67%. That's still 5-7 times the IFR of the flu.

Sort of, although those comparisons are not that easy.

One of the problems is that IFR isn't fixed in a country for covid (or for the flu). (And I recall that there were issues with that imperial college paper.)

For the flu it depends on which strain, and similarly for covid with Delta and Omicron. If Delta is 137% deadlier than the original then currently the imperial college paper would now suggest that the ifr is about 2.7% (with large variance); as it was made before even Alpha made an impact. And it may even vary within the variants over time.

On the other hand the standard of care has improved (especially the cheap drugs that haven't grabbed the headlines), and the new pills might transform it again, and with vaccines it becomes even more complicated. But some of those pills might also work against the flu as well.

Finally for covid the ifr on an individual level depends heavily on age (more than many other diseases).
The imperial college paper base their high income (1.25%) vs low income country (0.23%) estimates on age profiles in typical countries, but that neglects that countries differ and taking the age-average of ifr neglects that different age-groups may have different risk of infection based on behavior.

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You can't back this up. Fascists don't let people leave after 14 days.

Details about the Austrailan quarantine rules can be found here.

As I understand that means there are no real "quarantine camps" in Australia, and most people who have possible contacts can just quarantine in their home.

It's just that some (especially indigenous population) cannot do that due to overcrowded conditions and other reasons, and the camps are made for them - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-...ovid/100644212

There have been mandatory quarantines for travelers in some countries (New Zealand, S. Korea); that's more "hotel" than "concentration camp" - you can even find ads for cheaper quarantine hotels when traveling to S. Korea - https://www.enkor.kr/quarantine/