The 2021 Formula 1 World Championship Thread

[Espo]

Yep. It is a disgrace.

Funny thing is that, once again, Hamilton premeditates an action and someone else gets penalty out of it. It is plain absurd.

Sure Max didn´t move aside completely, but there was over half a rack space still. Max could have been breaking down... then what would have happened? would they have still given him the penalty? it is plain absurd and only british fanboys are now defending it.

Monza is the same shit. Max went for a tight gap and managed to pt his car ahead. Lewis didn´t want to give it up. Fair and square from both, they both wanted the gap and collided. Racing. But no, there must be a penalty for Max.

Then when Hamilton crashed him out, they handed him the victory, in the UK.

I am sick of that subhuman (yes, subhuman because he deserves no sports respect anymore) and FIA being so unconsistent and bias. It feels like it is the SKY idiots ruling the sport sometimes...

I don't know why I'm taking the bait, because you're clearly delusional with your love of Max and/or watching a race in an alternate reality--you sound like Marko's burner account.

But the telemetry is out there--so is the stewards report. You can clearly see Max brake tested and moved on the track. Yea, I get that they were both playing a little game of chicken around the DRS zone (and Masi was slow to relay the message)--but you don't brake test another driver. That is insane.

It isn't "only british fanboys" defending Lewis (I'm certainly not one)--it's any reasonable human being at this point. I'll give you Silverstone, but outside of that it's pretty clear who has been driving with their elbows (and whole body) out more this season--which has been good racing and fine for the most part. But there's a reason Lewis barely tries to pass in a corner anymore, and of late has been setting Max up on the straights--he knows Max is just going to brake late and push both of them off the track. Hell, you have another Max fan, in this thread, saying he was wrong.

[MCMLXXXII]

I admit I was wrong about the collision. But the elbows out is what real racing should be. Most people love it, even long before Verstappen even was born. Does he sometimes go to far? Yes he does.

About the whining of Red Bull, yes they whine a lot. Horner and Marko keep going. But ever since Lauda died Wolff seems to do as often as they. Fast pitstops, flexing wings, claiming illegal engine development etcetera. For a team that has said the passed 7 years they'd welcome competition, they are quite showing the opposite.

Anyway, this season is the most exciting in years, let's enjoy the final race.

[Bigbazz]

Max didn't brake test Lewis, that was clearly a situation of confusion and bad communication, it's bewildering why Lewis didn't just pass him so I'm guessing he was confused. Max was also probably confused as to why Lewis didn't pass and wasn't sure what to do, and it all turned into a mess. I don't see any malice there, there was no motive or gain to be had. Similar vibes to Coulthard vs Schumacher at Spa or Hamilton vs Button at Canada, just a mess.

But when it comes to Max defending it was just too much, he clearly doesn't want to do any form of safe clean racing and was just showing immature desperation, it's the sort of move you see teenagers do in online racing video games where they will cause a collision before they even consider letting someone faster pass, you don't expect that from experienced world class racing drivers.

I'm still rooting for Max in the championship but I really hope he can do better than what he did yesterday, in the end the Mercedes had the better long run pace so Max was never going to hold him back, the only outcome that could have come from his defending is retirement for one or both cars. Max's overtake on the 2nd restart was legendary but otherwise Lewis drove a better race, a less calm head would have probably have resulted in a race ending collision between the two.

The pressure is getting to Max now, big mistake in qualifying and then a messy desperate race with a lot big risks taken. Yesterday was like Whacky Races.

[notJoyful]

Max didn't brake test Lewis, that was clearly a situation of confusion and bad communication, it's bewildering why Lewis didn't just pass him so I'm guessing he was confused. Max was also probably confused as to why Lewis didn't pass and wasn't sure what to do, and it all turned into a mess. I don't see any malice there, there was no motive or gain to be had.

Telemetry of Max' car, as well as the decision from the stewards really contradics this statement though.....

[Bigbazz]

Telemetry of Max' car, as well as the decision from the stewards really contradics this statement though.....

No it doesn't, a brake test is something that requires intent. Max would not have been able to see Lewis's car and would expect him to pass either side where there was plenty of space and a huge speed difference yet Lewis stayed directly behind and had an equal role in that situation. And you're talking about Wolf's statement about the telemetry on Lewis's car, Wolf does not have telemetry on Max's car, they can figure out speed data from footage and reference with Lewis's car but just coming off the throttle in an F1 car causes massive deceleration.

So I disagree, I also don't agree the stewards had any intent than to just show they "did something" in response to a dangerous incident, since they purposely avoided changing the outcome of the race. The stewards were a complete joke too, left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing situation with giving out a 5 second penalty for gaining an advantage at the same time as the race director instructing them to give the place back to avoid getting penalised for gaining an advantage.

The whole running of the race from the director and the stewards was one of the worst I've seen in over 25 years watching this sport.

[notJoyful]

No it doesn't, a brake test is something that requires intent. Max would not have been able to see Lewis's car and would expect him to pass either side where there was plenty of space and a huge speed difference yet Lewis stayed directly behind and had an equal role in that situation. And you're talking about Wolf's statement about the telemetry on Lewis's car, Wolf does not have telemetry on Max's car, they can figure out speed data from footage and reference with Lewis's car but just coming off the throttle in an F1 car causes massive deceleration.

So I disagree, I also don't agree the stewards had any intent than to just show they "did something" in response to a dangerous incident, since they purposely avoided changing the outcome of the race. The stewards were a complete joke too, left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing situation with giving out a 5 second penalty for gaining an advantage at the same time as the race director instructing them to give the place back to avoid getting penalised for gaining an advantage.

The whole running of the race from the director and the stewards was one of the worst I've seen in over 25 years watching this sport.

Noo... the telemetry is what the stewards used. I don't care what Wolff stated

[Bigbazz]

Noo... the telemetry is what the stewards used. I don't care what Wolff stated

You don't know anything about what the telemetry the stewards used showed or if they even used the telemetry to come to their conclusion, so stop jumping to conclusions. Red Bull also claim they have telemetry that shows clearly that Max didn't do anything wrong, and he certainly had nothing to gain from brake testing lewis on a straight, where he wouldn't be able to see where Lewis was and where he would be expecting Lewis to pass him and not drive directly into the back of him.

I don't care what the stewards outcome was, we saw quite clearly that the stewards and the race director were nothing but incompetent during the race. They might have felt max/red bull were ultimately more to blame in the situation, that's a long way from claiming Max brake checked Lewis which is a dangerous (for both drivers) action of intention. The only thing brake checking achieves is taking both cars out of the race, Max was trying to let Lewis pass so he could then retake the lead using the slipstream, not end both of their races.

If Max had been at fault of brake checking him they'd have done a lot more than "not change the results at all". Drivers get banned for this kinda stuff, you don't get a slap on the wrist for brake checking someone.

[notJoyful]

You don't know anything about what the telemetry the stewards used showed or if they even used the telemetry to come to their conclusion, so stop jumping to conclusions. Red Bull also claim they have telemetry that shows clearly that Max didn't do anything wrong, and he certainly had nothing to gain from brake testing lewis on a straight, where he wouldn't be able to see where Lewis was and where he would be expecting Lewis to pass him and not drive directly into the back of him.

I don't care what the stewards outcome was, we saw quite clearly that the stewards and the race director were nothing but incompetent during the race. They might have felt max/red bull were ultimately more to blame in the situation, that's a long way from claiming Max brake checked Lewis which is a dangerous (for both drivers) action of intention. The only thing brake checking achieves is taking both cars out of the race, Max was trying to let Lewis pass so he could then retake the lead using the slipstream, not end both of their races.

No I don't know what telemetry they used, obviously noone outside of the stewards and possibly the involved teams knows that. But I do know what they cited in the official report that they put out - which is that Max significantly decreased in speed (2.4G) due to the high usage of the break pedal(69 bar), just before the crash.

Here you can read it yourself if you want.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Max didn't brake test Lewis, that was clearly a situation of confusion and bad communication, it's bewildering why Lewis didn't just pass him so I'm guessing he was confused. Max was also probably confused as to why Lewis didn't pass and wasn't sure what to do, and it all turned into a mess. I don't see any malice there, there was no motive or gain to be had. Similar vibes to Coulthard vs Schumacher at Spa or Hamilton vs Button at Canada, just a mess.

But when it comes to Max defending it was just too much, he clearly doesn't want to do any form of safe clean racing and was just showing immature desperation, it's the sort of move you see teenagers do in online racing video games where they will cause a collision before they even consider letting someone faster pass, you don't expect that from experienced world class racing drivers.

I'm still rooting for Max in the championship but I really hope he can do better than what he did yesterday, in the end the Mercedes had the better long run pace so Max was never going to hold him back, the only outcome that could have come from his defending is retirement for one or both cars. Max's overtake on the 2nd restart was legendary but otherwise Lewis drove a better race, a less calm head would have probably have resulted in a race ending collision between the two.

The pressure is getting to Max now, big mistake in qualifying and then a messy desperate race with a lot big risks taken. Yesterday was like Whacky Races.

How is Max supposed to defend against the current Merc? All that car needs is 1 DRS at .9s behind, that's enough to get ahead of any car. If Bottas wasn't so shit at racecraft, Max would never be able to compete for a WDC this year. Yea Max is desperate as he should be, no one can defend against such an advantage without going over the limit. The other option would be just letting Hamilton easily pass an open a gap with the current superior car, which would be boring as fuck. It was the same thing in Brazil, the difference is too big, the championship is almost over, you have to fucking try to defend, even if you go over the limit.

[Bigbazz]

No I don't know what telemetry they used, obviously noone outside of the stewards and possibly the involved teams knows that. But I do know what they cited in the official report that they put out - which is that Max significantly decreased in speed (2.4G) due to the high usage of the break pedal(69 bar), just before the crash.

Here you can read it yourself if you want.

I've already read it, you're confusing what a brake check is. A brake check is intentionally causing a collision or intentionally causing another driver to take avoiding action from braking suddenly, in some racing it's part of the "rubbing is racing" strategy and is even tolerated, in F1 it's a retirement for both cars.

Max was slowing to avoid losing out on DRS and expecting Lewis to just pass him either side, he was waiting for Lewis to pass, not expecting Lewis to stay directly behind him and drive into him, he could only lose from such a thing happening. What Lewis was intending I don't know but in any other circumstance closely following a slowing car that is off the racing line is just stupidity, so Lewis had a part to play in this as well.

They felt Max/Red Bull were more in the wrong so they gave them a non-penalty that did nothing. If they had felt he was "brake checking" Lewis in the he could have been disqualified or at the very least had an actual penalty, not a meaningless gesture of a penalty.

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How is Max supposed to defend against the current Merc? All that car needs is 1 DRS at .9s behind, that's enough to get ahead of any car. If Bottas wasn't so shit at racecraft, Max would never be able to compete for a WDC this year. Yea Max is desperate as he should be, no one can defend against such an advantage without going over the limit. The other option would be just letting Hamilton easily pass an open a gap with the current superior car, which would be boring as fuck. It was the same thing in Brazil, the difference is too big, the championship is almost over, you have to fucking try to defend, even if you go over the limit.

There comes a point where if the other driver is faster then that's it, defending is about putting your car in a place where it makes it difficult for another driver to complete a move, it's not about abandoning your braking zone so you can drive off the track and block the passing car at any cost. Max's defending was dangerous and over the limit, the reality is that Lewis was faster and deserved to win the race.

The fastest car/driver combo wins, that's just how it goes. Currently Mercedes have the fastest car and Perez has done nothing to help support Max in the championship. The Red Bull was the faster car in qualifying, even with Max having crashed and lost his pole lap if Perez had been competitive it could have displaced Lewis and that would have helped Red Bull strategy in the race.

If Lewis wins the championship it's hard to be upset about Mercedes straight line performance, both teams have been pushing hard all year and Max has been incredible, he just didn't have the pace in Saudi to keep Hamilton out of DRS range and they chose the wrong tyres. If they had not been so desperate and made some better decisions Max could have got 2nd + fastest lap.

[notJoyful]

@Bigbazz

Aight dude, good talk

[Bigbazz]

@Bigbazz

Aight dude, good talk

It's nice being right.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I've already read it, you're confusing what a brake check is. A brake check is intentionally causing a collision or intentionally causing another driver to take avoiding action from braking suddenly, in some racing it's part of the "rubbing is racing" strategy and is even tolerated, in F1 it's a retirement for both cars.

Max was slowing to avoid losing out on DRS and expecting Lewis to just pass him either side, he was waiting for Lewis to pass, not expecting Lewis to stay directly behind him and drive into him, he could only lose from such a thing happening. What Lewis was intending I don't know but in any other circumstance closely following a slowing car that is off the racing line is just stupidity, so Lewis had a part to play in this as well.

They felt Max/Red Bull were more in the wrong so they gave them a non-penalty that did nothing. If they had felt he was "brake checking" Lewis in the he could have been disqualified or at the very least had an actual penalty, not a meaningless gesture of a penalty.

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There comes a point where if the other driver is faster then that's it, defending is about putting your car in a place where it makes it difficult for another driver to complete a move, it's not about abandoning your braking zone so you can drive off the track and block the passing car at any cost. Max's defending was dangerous and over the limit, the reality is that Lewis was faster and deserved to win the race.

The fastest car/driver combo wins, that's just how it goes. Currently Mercedes have the fastest car and Perez has done nothing to help support Max in the championship. The Red Bull was the faster car in qualifying, even with Max having crashed and lost his pole lap if Perez had been competitive it could have displaced Lewis and that would have helped Red Bull strategy in the race.

If Lewis wins the championship it's hard to be upset about Mercedes straight line performance, both teams have been pushing hard all year and Max has been incredible, he just didn't have the pace in Saudi to keep Hamilton out of DRS range and they chose the wrong tyres. If they had not been so desperate and made some better decisions Max could have got 2nd + fastest lap.

Yes, but as I said, he's fighting for the WDC, this whole thing "if the other car is faster then that's it" should not be enough to stop from you actually trying. Red Bull wasn't faster in qualy, this track is like Monaco, high risk/reward ratio. Max was fast because he was just pushing like crazy, that doesn't mean his car was 0.4s faster than the Merc.

What blows my mind was Red Bull going for mediums for the second restart. Seriously, what a stupid decision. If anything, they had A LOT of VSC moments to try and pit him for new tyres and try to attack Hamilton in case he didn't pit. But anyone could see that Lewis would fly past Verstappen as soon as he was in DRS range.

[Jessicka]

Yes, but as I said, he's fighting for the WDC, this whole thing "if the other car is faster then that's it" should not be enough to stop from you actually trying. Red Bull wasn't faster in qualy, this track is like Monaco, high risk/reward ratio. Max was fast because he was just pushing like crazy, that doesn't mean his car was 0.4s faster than the Merc.

What blows my mind was Red Bull going for mediums for the second restart. Seriously, what a stupid decision. If anything, they had A LOT of VSC moments to try and pit him for new tyres and try to attack Hamilton in case he didn't pit. But anyone could see that Lewis would fly past Verstappen as soon as he was in DRS range.

This, that tactical decision lost Max the race long before any of the drama; the blistering on the first set after 10 laps told you those mediums were never getting to the end. They were counting on more safety cars, virtual or otherwise, to preserve them or give an opportunity to change them. It's not just about letting Max drive aggressively.

[Bigbazz]

Yes, but as I said, he's fighting for the WDC, this whole thing "if the other car is faster then that's it" should not be enough to stop from you actually trying.

There is a difference between trying to defend though and effectively cheating. Max is regularly trying to defend by just cheating, he's putting himself in the position of "you either stay behind or we both retire" which is effectively just a sore loser at that point. If you want a good recent example of defending then look at Alonso. What Max is doing is the kinda defending where if there wasn't a tarmac runoff you'd be in a sand trap or a wall.

He got away with it in Brazil so now he thinks he can defend by just abandoning the corner entirely to block a car that has to slow to take the corner. It's just video game tactics, abandon your brake point and run the other driver off the road. Max has always pushed the limits and he used to be dangerous, he improved his driving but lately under pressure he's gone back to that immature driving.

But anyone could see that Lewis would fly past Verstappen as soon as he was in DRS range.

Well that's what happens when you build your setup around that. Max was fast through the corners and had a qualifying setup, Lewis had a setup better suited to the long straights in the race. It turned out to be the right compromise, while the Red Bull is better at slow speed corners the Mercedes excels in high speed corners and Saudi is full of them, so the Mercedes was still reasonably good through the rest of the track while it was a rocket down the straights.

Max's main problem was not having the tyres to keep Lewis out of range in the end, the Red Bull win condition was to not get into a DRS drag race. Anyway, hopefully Red Bull pull it all together for the next race, I'm still hoping for a Max victory but I just hope he does it with some dignity and we don't have a Schumacher/Senna finale.

[Northern Goblin]

I'm still hoping for a Max victory but I just hope he does it with some dignity and we don't have a Schumacher/Senna finale.

I'm fully expecting it sadly. Verstappen has shown nothing this season to suggest he wouldn't wipe himself and Lewis out to preserve the championship. He's already done it at Monza, and that could have been deadly.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I'm fully expecting it sadly. Verstappen has shown nothing this season to suggest he wouldn't wipe himself and Lewis out to preserve the championship. He's already done it at Monza, and that could have been deadly.

Location: Cumbria, England

Lol alright, let's forget Silverstone.

[Northern Goblin]

Location: Cumbria, England

Lol alright, let's forget Silverstone.

I missed the point at Silverstone where one guy ran his car over the top of the other and continued to wheelspin with a wheel right over another driver's halo.

Also if you want to forget incidents, Brazil?

There's a reason Verstappen is tied for most penalty points of all time with Grosjean. Hell he has more active ones than Mazepan, and that guy is a walking F1 violation.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I missed the point at Silverstone where one guy ran his car over the top of the other and continued to wheelspin with a wheel right over another driver's halo.

So dramatic, my god. Gonna stay away from you, good luck.

[Fuiking]

I missed the point at Silverstone where one guy ran his car over the top of the other and continued to wheelspin with a wheel right over another driver's halo.

Also if you want to forget incidents, Brazil?

There's a reason Verstappen is tied for most penalty points of all time with Grosjean. Hell he has more active ones than Mazepan, and that guy is a walking F1 violation.

Sorry, I can't take you seriously anymore.. bunch of whataboutism there? Monza, Silverstone, forgot those? no? ignoring them?