[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[GreenJesus]

Your average Garlean wasn't responsible for any of that. They didn't choose to be born into an autocracy they had no control over. Just as it is unfair for Ishgard to be wiped out for the crimes of a few, so too is it unfair for the people of Garlemald to be doomed because of the actions of a handful. Collective guilt is stupid.



I can rationalize the twins being sent as they were the most expendable/useless members* of the expedition. Everyone else in the expedition was a skilled warrior who was straight up better than them, or some sort of specialist who was very useful to the mission (ie, the engineers or the stealthy spies and scouts). Sending the twins to diplomatic mission meant that they were being useful and Lucia didn't have to waste the talents of her other members. The expedition seems to be only about 50ish people at most and every person counts. If Lucia had sent some random Adder soldiers as her emmissaries than that was less people she had scouting for incoming armies and scavenging for food and firewood.

*Emmanellain also exists but he had a bad incident in 3.2 and his demeanor hasn't changed much, so people aren't likely to trust him with a diplomatic mission.

I'm not saying they deserve to be doomed. I was just saying Alphinajd had plenty of retorts he could have made for the commander of the 1st Fleet who literally said "why didn't you just let us win bro." And alphinaud just stood there unable to come up with a comeback. He could have easily explained himself 10x better instead of just "we just want to help bro" ten times over.

[Ragu4]

I said something was "big gay" and got kicked from the novice network for "using gay as a derogatory word".

I don't think I've ever met a more sensitive playerbase than FF14. You have this guy going on about killing himself and being depressed in the novice network and everyone just enabling it, then one guy calls them out for attention seeking and gets banned immediately.

Also, everything is LGBTQ+ or some other variation of inclusion. I'm trying to find a normal FC that I can shittalk with, but I don't think that's a thing on Sargateras lol.

[Merie]

I'm not saying they deserve to be doomed. I was just saying Alphinajd had plenty of retorts he could have made for the commander of the 1st Fleet who literally said "why didn't you just let us win bro." And alphinaud just stood there unable to come up with a comeback. He could have easily explained himself 10x better instead of just "we just want to help bro" ten times over.

Yeah, I couldn't believe that part. Especially considering THIS VERY EXPANSION builds Alphie up as the greatest debating champion in Sharlaya. All he had to say was that the alliance can't accept the Empire's "unity and prosperity" if it means having your kids and loved ones kidnapped and forced to work in some cold mine the rest of their lives.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Yeah, I couldn't believe that part. Especially considering THIS VERY EXPANSION builds Alphie up as the greatest debating champion in Sharlaya. All he had to say was that the alliance can't accept the Empire's "unity and prosperity" if it means having your kids and loved ones kidnapped and forced to work in some cold mine the rest of their lives.

In ARR 2.0, Rhitahtyn (a Roegadyn) said that his (unnamed) homeland was a hellhole and that he was glad when the empire annexed it and improved it. The empire wasn't evil, at least not before the retcons that happened during Stormblood.

[Onikaroshi]

Just finished the story today (been hella sick, probably covid)

Have to say, ShB was better overall from start to finish.

EW started off super slow it felt like, and had a lot of filler and time waister quests (like one where you need to talk to 8 people, but it highlights people that don't count.... like why, that's some WoW level bs time waste), and NPC walking got old quick but it's shoehorned into many quests.

The ending few hours though was superb, probably around zone 5 and zone 6.

[everydaygamer]

In ARR 2.0, Rhitahtyn (a Roegadyn) said that his (unnamed) homeland was a hellhole and that he was glad when the empire annexed it and improved it. The empire wasn't evil, at least not before the retcons that happened during Stormblood.

Just because they were the lesser of two evils in that situation doesn't mean they weren't still evil.

[Poppincaps]

Finished Endwalker. I loved it. I think it's easily better than ShB and I think ShB is a masterpiece. I did have some issues with the pacing in parts and some of the tailing missions were obnoxious as fuck, but when I reflect on my time with Endwalker those things barely even matter.

I think it was a beautiful story and overall, I'm really happy that I decided to start FF14 almost 3 years ago. The story alone has made it worth it.

[Cosmic Janitor]

In ARR 2.0, Rhitahtyn (a Roegadyn) said that his (unnamed) homeland was a hellhole and that he was glad when the empire annexed it and improved it. The empire wasn't evil, at least not before the retcons that happened during Stormblood.

The empire is practically just like most empires in history, I would hardly call that a retcon when they are a constantly hostile invasion force towards eorzians since the beginning. Some people prosper under foreign rule, others don't. The same happened in actual history as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, I couldn't believe that part. Especially considering THIS VERY EXPANSION builds Alphie up as the greatest debating champion in Sharlaya. All he had to say was that the alliance can't accept the Empire's "unity and prosperity" if it means having your kids and loved ones kidnapped and forced to work in some cold mine the rest of their lives.

This was the only major low point for me in the zone's story as well. I could have literally given him a list multiple pages long detailing what blight the empire is on the people, how they mistreat the annexed populations, how they usually end up 3rd class citizens, cannon-fodder, etc. Yet we all stood there like complete muppets. Especially the twins have tonns of stories of their own they could have recalled and we as players have witnessed many more ourselves. Quite the oversight from a writing perspective. The garlean could have also been ignorant of it, he essentially was already anyway and could have just hand-waved it. The outcome was fine, it was just the way we got there that was unsatisfactory.

[Thestrawman]

The empire is practically just like most empires in history, I would hardly call that a retcon when they are a constantly hostile invasion force towards eorzians since the beginning. Some people prosper under foreign rule, others don't. The same happened in actual history as well.

- - - Updated - - -



This was the only major low point for me in the zone's story as well. I could have literally given him a list multiple pages long detailing what blight the empire is on the people, how they mistreat the annexed populations, how they usually end up 3rd class citizens, cannon-fodder, etc. Yet we all stood there like complete muppets. Especially the twins have tonns of stories of their own they could have recalled and we as players have witnessed many more ourselves. Quite the oversight from a writing perspective. The garlean could have also been ignorant of it, he essentially was already anyway and could have just hand-waved it. The outcome was fine, it was just the way we got there that was unsatisfactory.

It wouldn't have mattered. Bringing up all the empire's wrongs would not have helped the situation with the Legatus and anyone else bought into Garlemald's propaganda that they are the persecuted people against the whole of the world.

[Estherna]

About the Empire stuff... I don't know how far people are on the MSQ, but all the things about what we could have said, or the Twins could have... It didn't matter in the end. Not because they wouldn't listen or would have disagree. But because it doesn't fit the narrative of the story, the meaning of it. Garlemald serves a purpose in the story, this situation is there to show you something later on in the story.

If you are just in Garlemald right now or a bit after... You have no idea to where the plot is going. Believe me.

[Absintheminded]

I said something was "big gay" and got kicked from the novice network for "using gay as a derogatory word".

I don't think I've ever met a more sensitive playerbase than FF14. You have this guy going on about killing himself and being depressed in the novice network and everyone just enabling it, then one guy calls them out for attention seeking and gets banned immediately.

Also, everything is LGBTQ+ or some other variation of inclusion. I'm trying to find a normal FC that I can shittalk with, but I don't think that's a thing on Sargateras lol.

Maybe stop using the word gay as derogatory

[Graeham]

It wouldn't have mattered. Bringing up all the empire's wrongs would not have helped the situation with the Legatus and anyone else bought into Garlemald's propaganda that they are the persecuted people against the whole of the world.

It isn't really propaganda but the grim reality. Everything revolves around aether. They can't manipulate it naturally, so they're at a disadvantage. The Reaper quests highlight it further. They were peaceful farmers, constantly attacked and forced to abandon their homeland in favour of the frozen wastes...and even there, they couldn't live in peace without fighting tooth and nail to survive.

So they were given the opportunity to defend themselves and became proactive. If it wasn't for the writers constantly shilling CRT, we'd probably have a more mature story that actually allowed concepts such as 'Empires' to exist, but this is a fantasy setting written in the present day, so we can't have that.

[dope_danny]

I just got to the final zone and looking at the mobs here im going to guess this is midgardsorms homeworld the dragon star? We'll see because at this point who knows.

[KrayZ33]

In ARR 2.0, Rhitahtyn (a Roegadyn) said that his (unnamed) homeland was a hellhole and that he was glad when the empire annexed it and improved it. The empire wasn't evil, at least not before the retcons that happened during Stormblood.

It's not even truely a retcon either way, the "now" Empire did actually actively change by Ascian design and made into an actual *Empire*.
Their history of conquest isn't some thousand year old agenda or design. Emet literally did that in a single human lifetime.
Some people in the FFXIV story are old enough to have witnessed it, if they live to like 80 years old.

As far as I know, he took the throne somewhere in 1510+ and conquest was done until ~1570 which is when it actually became an Empire.
Before that even began, the Shroud was attacked by city states like Ala Mhigo, which are now their allies.

at around 1570, 1.0 happened and lasted for like 5 years.
And then ARR started.
Wasn't there some kind of shortstory about Emet as Emperor during ShB? I don't remember much of it but I remember that he just couldn't develop love for his people or even wife, no matter how hard he tried, which is probably the point where it all changed and he used it to usher in a calamity.

[Yarathir]

Tried Reaper a bit, and at 70, it's.. ok. Definitely flashy, but I feel the rotation is a bit janky.

Particularly that 30 second dot you have to keep reapplying. Does it add flavor? Maybe. Does it feel awkward? Yes. Especially when Endwalker pruned such and similar abilities from other jobs. Feels like some miscommunication in job design there.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

It's not even truely a retcon either way, the "now" Empire did actually actively change by Ascian design and made into an actual *Empire*.
Their history of conquest isn't some thousand year old agenda or design. Emet literally did that in a single human lifetime.
Some people in the FFXIV story are old enough to have witnessed it, if they live to like 80 years old.

As far as I know, he took the throne somewhere in 1510+ and conquest was done until ~1570 which is when it actually became an Empire.
Before that even began, the Shroud was attacked by city states like Ala Mhigo, which are now their allies.

at around 1570, 1.0 happened and lasted for like 5 years.
And then ARR started.
Wasn't there some kind of shortstory about Emet as Emperor during ShB? I don't remember much of it but I remember that he just couldn't develop love for his people or even wife, no matter how hard he tried, which is probably the point where it all changed and he used it to usher in a calamity.

I wasn't talking about the Emet = Solus retcon. I meant that prior to Stormblood, the empire wasn't cartoonishly evil. It seemed like crazies like Nael were the outliers. Then you start getting all of these ridiculously evil legions and you have to wonder how Gaius could climb so far up the ranks and not have known how ridiculously evil the empire was.

[zealo]

I wasn't talking about the Emet = Solus retcon. I meant that prior to Stormblood, the empire wasn't cartoonishly evil. It seemed like crazies like Nael were the outliers. Then you start getting all of these ridiculously evil legions and you have to wonder how Gaius could climb so far up the ranks and not have known how ridiculously evil the empire was.

If you didn't perceive the empire as being presented as cartoonishly evil in ARR, you should probably go back and revisit that part of the game some time.

[Poppincaps]

If you didn't perceive the empire as being presented as cartoonishly evil in ARR, you should probably go back and revisit that part of the game some time.

Yeah Gaius and his crew are 100% presented as cartoonishly evil. It's after ARR that Gaius and Nero become more complex.

[Tojara]

I really don't think they knew what they were ultimately doing with Garlemald and Garleans in general, and ultimately I'd have to say (at the start) they didn't really know what they wanted to do with Ascians. Ascians to me were just awful until they introduced Emet-Selch towards the end of SB (and basically ShB). The nice thing about the Ascians though is that they took an entire expansion to properly develop them, and they're expanded upon more in EW (don't want to spoil).

That's where the distinction between them ends though. You loosely jump around around Garleans and Garlemald proper (their presence is pretty well known in the first three installations), they're seen as a giant threat and the whole thing culminates in what it does. It's not bad, but I think of all the major factions in FF14 they were absolutely done the worst.

The above might just me wanting everything to be awesome, and in such comparisons something has to suffer I guess. The whole Garlean story is probably fine, it just isn't nearly as most of the other stuff in FF14.

I just hit level 90 and am on the last few quests in EW (presumably) and I doubt some of my feelings are going to change that much. There are absolutely powerful moments in EW that equal the confrontation in 5.0 (maybe slightly more so), but I wouldn't call EW as an expansion better than ShB (IMO).

[Ragu4]

Maybe stop using the word gay as derogatory

I miss high school sometimes lol