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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Araya View Post
    Mage Tower is a great example of why borrowed power can be really bad. Its also a great design of how they've completely redesigned multiple classes since Legion. I'd also like to say how freaking dumb it is that one of the challenges (Fel Totem) is completely centred around interrupts and all the classes that do it (to my knowledge) have a 15s or less interrupt EXCEPT Warlocks.
    Lol what. You're a Warlock. You have Mortal Coil, Fear, and Shadowfury. Even back when you had Grimoire of Service it wasn't needed. I took it because why not, but you didn't "need" it.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Except people are actually clearing the challenges, so its not like they are anywhere near impossible or undoable. Even if only the top 5% of WoW players can complete them, it's fine. Gives them something fun to do and something that's sincerely lacking in this game for years, a solo challenge.

    And the next raid is coming to the PTR, and it'll likely be out soon. That's where you are intended to gear up to beat the Mage Tower challenge, just like in Legion. If you think it's overtuned now, then just outgear it.
    A lot of players clearing them are outgearing it via gems. I just don't really want a timewalking set to be a thing for content if I am being honest.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's some logic leap there.

    But hey, picking some ingame thing and somehow spinning out a story that fits your shtick is MMO-C standard shitposting procedure.
    It's not shitposting if it's true. When blizzard releases content where you can't over gear it there is always a lot tears about being over tunes or even it's "bugged". It's Crucible all over again. People hate being shown that they aren't as good as what they think they are and blame blizzard for it. People actually need to look at what the game is telling them. If you are wiping on MT you need to understand why and do things to rectify your short comings. Look through your spells and abilities. Understand what your talents do and choose the right ones. Actually GITGUD. Don't be like those mythic raiders who couldn't clear Crucible. Be better than them. Actually GITGUD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    So don't do it?

    Hint: all video games are a waste of time
    Wrong.

    Video games can improve hand eye coord and help improve social interactions that serve you well in life. Playing with friends can also help with mental health.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Araya View Post
    I'd also like to say how freaking dumb it is that one of the challenges (Fel Totem) is completely centred around interrupts and all the classes that do it (to my knowledge) have a 15s or less interrupt EXCEPT Warlocks.
    Feltotem was definitely the "left over specs" fight, and it's clear from the design. BUT: Only Windwalker could get all of the Fel Burst with it's interrupt. Destro had to rotate other stuns/CCs with interrupts, and so did BM (interrupt 24 sec, same as Warlock). As BM I remember having to eat a Fel Burst with Turtle since I had nothing else up. Disc just is balanced around eating the damage. So only 1/4 actually has a short CD interrupt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    And warlocks have a pet with a 15 second interrupt.
    It's been 24 seconds for a looooong time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Log Cabin View Post
    A lot of players clearing them are outgearing it via gems. I just don't really want a timewalking set to be a thing for content if I am being honest.
    Yeah honestly this is what I find frustrating about the whole thing. It bugs the hell out of me that "outgear with gem-stuffed BC gear and old-school enchants" is the best way to go about it.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    It's not shitposting if it's true. When blizzard releases content where you can't over gear it there is always a lot tears about being over tunes or even it's "bugged". It's Crucible all over again. People hate being shown that they aren't as good as what they think they are and blame blizzard for it. People actually need to look at what the game is telling them. If you are wiping on MT you need to understand why and do things to rectify your short comings. Look through your spells and abilities. Understand what your talents do and choose the right ones. Actually GITGUD. Don't be like those mythic raiders who couldn't clear Crucible. Be better than them. Actually GITGUD.
    Pls 2 explian? Sigyrn is in repentance, comes out of it INSTA wipes me with Blood of the Father with no cast? Defo need to GITGUD there.....


    https://clips.twitch.tv/SnappyOptimi...54nyr1qu-roS0j

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    It's not shitposting if it's true. When blizzard releases content where you can't over gear it there is always a lot tears about being over tunes or even it's "bugged". It's Crucible all over again. People hate being shown that they aren't as good as what they think they are and blame blizzard for it. People actually need to look at what the game is telling them. If you are wiping on MT you need to understand why and do things to rectify your short comings. Look through your spells and abilities. Understand what your talents do and choose the right ones. Actually GITGUD. Don't be like those mythic raiders who couldn't clear Crucible. Be better than them. Actually GITGUD.
    Except what you aren't taking into account is that the majority of the players clearing are abusing mechanics they shouldn't (see the recent Survival hunter hotfix) or they are making specific timewalking sets that have an insane amount of sockets on it that artificially bumps their item level. It's not that they "gitgud" it's that they are having to find ways to cheese it in order to complete it. That's where the problem lies. If it was completable by actually using your toolkit and stuff people wouldn't complain, but when you have to go out of your way to abuse mechanics and/or make gem sets then something is wrong. That's what people are complaining about. You are just looking at people complaining and going "You bad, gitgud!" when that isn't necessarily the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    Pls 2 explian? Sigyrn is in repentance, comes out of it INSTA wipes me with Blood of the Father with no cast? Defo need to GITGUD there.....


    https://clips.twitch.tv/SnappyOptimi...54nyr1qu-roS0j
    Part of that there is that you divine storm and it hit Sigyrn so he broke out of it. Even in legion sometimes it was instant Blood for no reason.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I don't know if they aren't tuned this way now, but they were absolutely tuned this way in Legion. If they adjusted them all to one version then that would explain why some mechanics feel over tuned. Stuff like Comet Storm on Xylem in Legion was tuned to do a lot more damage against Demon Hunters than Frost Death Knights for example since Demon Hunters can just double jump out of the ring and DKs have to actually kill the ice shards.

    The adds that spawned for Feral Druid in Legion had a lot less health than the ones for Unholy DK because Feral Druid sucked at AoE and cleave compared to Unholy.

    So basically they better have kept the Legion spec tuning in place or else they failed.
    They're still tuned individually. That hasn't changed. But between scaling down and accounting for the borrowed power loss, many have definitely seemed to get harder. Passive damage seems to be higher across the board for many fights/specs, some boss HP seems a bit out of whack (Raest for example), and the mages in the healer challenge are just utterly trucking at fewer stacks than they used to.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post

    Part of that there is that you divine storm and it hit Sigyrn so he broke out of it. Even in legion sometimes it was instant Blood for no reason.
    Yeah, I'm aware of that. The problem is her using her ultimate ability. There is no way to do ANYTHING about that. It's a wipe and a major bug.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    Yeah, I'm aware of that. The problem is her using her ultimate ability. There is no way to do ANYTHING about that. It's a wipe and a major bug.
    Upon further inspection Blood never went off. So what happened is you broke his CC at 14s then you continued to fight him for 5 seconds and she had no buff (Blood). At 20s you missed the rune in the top right where the green was dropped on it. You can see it start out big easily and then starts to shrink. You went for the second rune in the order instead of the first. When the rune went off you were at 20.5% HP so when it went off you then died.
    Last edited by Lucetia; 2021-12-09 at 05:31 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I don't know if they aren't tuned this way now, but they were absolutely tuned this way in Legion. If they adjusted them all to one version then that would explain why some mechanics feel over tuned. Stuff like Comet Storm on Xylem in Legion was tuned to do a lot more damage against Demon Hunters than Frost Death Knights for example since Demon Hunters can just double jump out of the ring and DKs have to actually kill the ice shards.

    The adds that spawned for Feral Druid in Legion had a lot less health than the ones for Unholy DK because Feral Druid sucked at AoE and cleave compared to Unholy.

    So basically they better have kept the Legion spec tuning in place or else they failed.
    Don't know if they were tuned differently per spec/class (wowhead says they weren't) but blizzard buffed some encounters that were considered easy back in legion but hard on PTR like Xylem. In Legion and on the PTR Comet Storm did 20% player HP as damage and they "fixed" it to 40% of player HP. So 3 ticks (about 6 seconds) and you're dead. It's possible to do as arms warrior by jumping and leaping out of the ice and using cds only to get fast enough out of the ice which makes it a really long fight (like 15 minutes long).

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    Don't know if they were tuned differently per spec/class (wowhead says they weren't) but blizzard buffed some encounters that were considered easy back in legion but hard on PTR like Xylem. In Legion and on the PTR Comet Storm did 20% player HP as damage and they "fixed" it to 40% of player HP. So 3 ticks (about 6 seconds) and you're dead. It's possible to do as arms warrior by jumping and leaping out of the ice and using cds only to get fast enough out of the ice which makes it a really long fight (like 15 minutes long).
    The comet storm was because classes had ways to deal with it.
    • Frost Death Knight - AMS / AMZ
    • Havoc Demon Hunter - Fel Rush
    • Survival Hunter - Disengage
    • Subtlety Rogue - Sprint / Cloak / Something else that I can't remember
    • Arms Warrior - Leap / Charge (if in range)

    Comet Storm was all about nuking the crap out of your prison and then getting out while popping your CD's and then recover health when you got back to the target. This was just how they were designed and I managed to grab all of them back them, except maybe Sub. I can't remember which rogue one I didn't do.

  12. #52
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    Mage Tower is a great example...
    of You Think You Do But You Don't
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Upon further inspection Blood never went off. So what happened is you broke his CC at 14s then you continued to fight him for 5 seconds and she had no buff (Blood). At 20s you missed the rune in the top right where the green was dropped on it. You can see it start out big easily and then starts to shrink. You went for the second rune in the order instead of the first. When the rune went off you were at 20.5% HP so when it went off you then died.
    If you've done the encounter, the green pulsing AOE is the Blood of the Father AOE. That's what killed me. I had a choice of going for thatr une and dying to the valks, or just bubbling it, which is what i did. I died to the AOE after it. I was alrwady dead at 20 secs before the rune went off. I know the rune would have killed me, but it was the Blood of the Father that killed me. There was no cast, and no way to survive it. That's a bug.

    Last edited by Tommi; 2021-12-09 at 06:14 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    …of why players who want a minimal/no gear gap between raid difficulties should never be listened to.

    A lot of people like to think if things were more equalized they would do better, but that isn’t the case at all.
    How did you draw the conclusion that ppl want better gear to compare to, say, mythic raiders. A normal-only raider probably knows he isn't as good or doesn't spend enough time to be as good, but they still want better gear. I would actually argue that the worse a player is, the better gear he needs. If a mythic raider struggles on a mythic boss, a normal raider should not struggle as much on a normal boss so this is where gear comes in.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    If you've done the encounter, the green pulsing AOE is the Blood of the Father AOE. That's what killed me. I had a choice of going for thatr une and dying to the valks, or just bubbling it, which is what i did. I died to teh AOE after it.
    I did watch the video, multiple times in slowmo to double check before I posted the first time.

    Here's an image breaking it down (you can click the image for a bigger version).

    In Red we have where the rune went off that you ignored.
    In Blue we see that you were indeed not bubbled and at 20.5% health.
    Green arrows show no valks coming through.
    Purple arrow shows no boon buff on Sigryn.

    Below are ways the fight could've been saved. But the #1 thing was that your Repentance was off cooldown. As soon as you broke it and saw Blood go off still you should've Repentenced ASAP. By the time the next cast would go off you would have HoJ back up and enough time for Repentence to be used again.

    With that said you can see the Pulse from boon so that part is a bug that could occur in the past as well. The problem is you used your stun and repentence on her to stop Boon. Ideally you want to cast Repentence as she casts Boon and save hammer in case something like this happened along with your Shield of the Protector to negate some damage. You also got hit with a whirling axe prior that knocked a lot of health off. Your BoJ was off cooldown so you could've used that to build up to 4 HP and popped a WoG that could've saved it overall. You also aren't running Devotion Aura (or any aura for that matter).

    Those little things could've possibly saved the encounter as I know in Legion even if Boon went off you could still save the fight, as a paladin



  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by rayvio View Post
    mage tower would have been much better if they'd taken the time to customise them based on the class/spec being played. didn't have to be major changes like having an entirely different scenario (that would have been great but not a realistic expectation), just tune the mobs according to the strengths and weaknesses of whichever specific class/spec it's aimed at
    and if it's designed in such a way that players learn from what they've done wrong and improve, so much the better

    but much like proving grounds they dropped the ball and some classes face rolled it while others really struggled and it had little to do with the players skill and much more to do with the lack of tuning
    they did it a little better in torghast since there are actually some anima powers customised for different specs, I haven't tried it as many class/specs yet but so far the tuning seems good. if only it wasn't so repetitive, tedious and lacking in rewards...
    That's how the original was as well.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    It's not shitposting if it's true. When blizzard releases content where you can't over gear it there is always a lot tears about being over tunes or even it's "bugged". It's Crucible all over again. People hate being shown that they aren't as good as what they think they are and blame blizzard for it. People actually need to look at what the game is telling them. If you are wiping on MT you need to understand why and do things to rectify your short comings. Look through your spells and abilities. Understand what your talents do and choose the right ones. Actually GITGUD. Don't be like those mythic raiders who couldn't clear Crucible. Be better than them. Actually GITGUD.

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    Wrong.

    Video games can improve hand eye coord and help improve social interactions that serve you well in life. Playing with friends can also help with mental health.
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Gear was already irrelevant in the mage tower challenge for holy priests back in Legion because the NPCs don't scale with your gear. The NPCs are getting destroyed by the mages now because the mages are overtuned. Back in Legion you could have 3-4 stacks on the mages but now you can't even do 2 without risking wipes.
    Last edited by Katie N; 2021-12-09 at 07:03 AM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    That's how the original was as well.
    The original mage tower at its introduction was received the same.
    It was faceroll for some of the specs even undergeared and a challenge for other even raid geared specs.

    The positivity came 40-50 ilvls later, with skipping phases in the encounters and beeing able to survive one-shots with gear.
    -

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post

    The positivity came 40-50 ilvls later, with skipping phases in the encounters and beeing able to survive one-shots with gear.
    No, it became harder as a priest when you were "overgearing" it, you needed to balance the hp in there or wipe, with better gear you risked wiping yourself just because you healed too much.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    That's how the original was as well.
    I tend to disagree. This one feels...different? I don't recall using a shield trinket and fighting the worm boss for 14 fucking minutes killing the worm then tunneling the tauren ignoring the three dozen worms i had spawned desperately playing " I spy the stun totem" in legion.

    From what I have done and what I have seen from my mythic guild imp mother and the tank challenges are easy. Twins, are decent. With closing the eyes and fel totem running the gambit based on class

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