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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    No, constantly trashing it online and attacking a young actress over less than a minute of screen time is what makes them toxic.

    It's a shame, but I guess Cowboy Bebop is doomed to forever be an obscure series, popular only among hard-core anime fans.
    But those assholes aren't the reason it failed. It failed because of viewership because many feel it's not very good. Picking out only the most extreme voices to avoid any kind of reflection is a lazy way to process this.

    As far as being obscure, Bebop isn't Naruto or anything but...known only by hardcore? What? Huh? Do you know what obscure anime look like? Bebop wouldn't have snagged a live action adaptation if it was obscure in the first place. Even if it was 20 years ago, Bebop still has a ton of nostalgia because of when and where it aired, and it's still one of the first ones you hear when you get asked "What's an anime for people who don't like anime?"

    Anime remains pretty niche compared to when it was a mainstay on CN's blocks. But Bebop's still one of the most basic bitch animes you can list, around the Fullmetals, Evangelions, and Code Geasses. It's not up with your Dragonball or Naruto, but it's still firmly in that tier of popularity...and not everything NEEDS to be as big as those, nor will everything stylistically appeal as such.
    Last edited by Vakir; 2021-12-10 at 03:59 PM.

  2. #262
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    I never cared about the Anime. But my Mrs loves it, so we watched the Live Action version.

    I enjoyed it. I thought it was a lot of fun to watch...all the way up until Ed. I totally understand what Ed it like in the anime, but cartoon behavior only works on Tic Tok, not things that are meant to be taken at all seriously.
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  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    But those assholes aren't the reason it failed. It failed because of viewership because many feel it's not very good. Picking out only the most extreme voices to avoid any kind of reflection is a lazy way to process this.

    As far as being obscure, Bebop isn't Naruto or anything but...known only by hardcore? What? Huh? Do you know what obscure anime look like? Bebop wouldn't have snagged a live action adaptation if it was obscure in the first place. Even if it was 20 years ago, Bebop still has a ton of nostalgia because of when and where it aired, and it's still one of the first ones you hear when you get asked "What's an anime for people who don't like anime?"

    Anime remains pretty niche compared to when it was a mainstay on CN's blocks. But Bebop's still one of the most basic bitch animes you can list, around the Fullmetals, Evangelions, and Code Geasses. It's not up with your Dragonball or Naruto, but it's still firmly in that tier of popularity...and not everything NEEDS to be as big as those, nor will everything stylistically appeal as such.
    Bebop was certainly somewhat popular once upon a time but the only reason it got a live action adaptation now is because it's one of those projects people have been trying to get off the ground for years until Netflix finally gave it the green light.

    Most people these days have never even heard of it.

  4. #264
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    I've never been "happy" a show was canceled and I can't say I am now.

    I was lukewarm, I didn't care for the look of live action Ed, but that was all I could really judge, I though it was possible I just didn't like that scene and was willing to give her a shot in a second season.

    I was torn on Gren, on one hand I liked what this person did with it, it was an interesting take. But on the other I felt like they were robbed of Grens sacrifice and story and hoped they would give that back to the character in season 2.

    I've weighed in on the others earlier in the thread, and those positions stand.

    All in all I might not have jumped in on premiere day for season 2, but I think I'd eventually have given it a watch while I'm not heartbroken to hear of its cancelation.

    This actually makes me think about Avatar and how that's going to look. The bebop looked great, I think I'm just going to go into ATLA hoping for nothing more than cool looking bending scenes.
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    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Bebop was certainly somewhat popular once upon a time but the only reason it got a live action adaptation now is because it's one of those projects people have been trying to get off the ground for years until Netflix finally gave it the green light.

    Most people these days have never even heard of it.
    Based on what metric, though? Bebop is an older show. It's destined to run into fraying interest by that alone. But interest in those very same properties have resurgences through streaming media regardless as evidenced, even with controversy or poor reception like Netflix's bad EVA dub. It doesn't have the benefit of re-imagining or sequels, either, like DBS or the newer Eva movies, in comparison to other older titles, and it's still a pretty big deal.

    Indeed, the best thing to come out of this and to Bebop's benefit is that it's now available on Netflix in anime form and that all the controversy will inevitably cause some people who missed the boat on it to give it a look in response to even the poor professional critical reception.

    "Obscure" was a bad choice of words. I think even you can admit that. Bebop is an easy top 30 if you polled normies. And indeed is #44 on MyAnimeList which, while not reflective of non anime fans, ain't exactly making it Abunai Sisters.
    Last edited by Vakir; 2021-12-10 at 04:21 PM.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Based on what metric, though? Bebop is an older show. It's destined to run into fraying interest by that alone. But interest in those very same properties have resurgences through streaming media regardless as evidenced, even with controversy or poor reception like Netflix's bad EVA dub. It doesn't have the benefit of re-imagining or sequels, either, like DBS or the newer Eva movies, in comparison to other older titles, and it's still a pretty big deal.

    Indeed, the best thing to come out of this and to Bebop's benefit is that it's now available on Netflix in anime form and that all the controversy will inevitably cause some people who missed the boat on it to give it a look in response to even the poor professional critical reception.

    "Obscure" was a bad choice of words. I think even you can admit that. Bebop is an easy top 30 if you polled normies. And indeed is #44 on MyAnimeList which, while not reflective of non anime fans, ain't exactly making it Abunai Sisters.
    I just never believed it was as popular as fans make it out to be. The fans certainly never shut up about it but in general I rarely see anyone actually talk about. Other than the occasional new viewer chiming in to say they didn't think it was that great.

    This seems like a case of "hey this thing was popular 20 years ago, maybe it can be popular again".

  7. #267
    Huh. Thought I'd read that they already greenlit S2 before S1 even premiered.

    I can't say I'm surprised or even disappointed. I do think it got a lot of unnecessary hate. I wonder if we'll ever get closure for whatever timeline the writers were going for with this series. The radical departure at the end of the first season would be confusing as fuck for anybody jumping from the live action into the anime.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    I just never believed it was as popular as fans make it out to be. The fans certainly never shut up about it but in general I rarely see anyone actually talk about. Other than the occasional new viewer chiming in to say they didn't think it was that great.

    This seems like a case of "hey this thing was popular 20 years ago, maybe it can be popular again".
    There's obvious nostalgia bait in the IP but Cowboy Bebop (the anime) is a genuinely amazing show. It's wholly original both in tone and story presentation. The TV show tried its best to recreate the tone and atmosphere of the anime but ultimately came up short. Lightning rarely strikes twice and this series simply missed the mark.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    I just never believed it was as popular as fans make it out to be. The fans certainly never shut up about it but in general I rarely see anyone actually talk about. Other than the occasional new viewer chiming in to say they didn't think it was that great.

    This seems like a case of "hey this thing was popular 20 years ago, maybe it can be popular again".
    Which is a belief that's anecdotal and subject to personal bias anyway. Also "not as popular" is a very mealy mouthed walk back from "obscure." Not everything needs to be Naruto or Dragonball in level of mainstream appeal and indeed a lot would have their own sense of style or appeal dampened if they tried.

    One way or another:

    1. Bebop was added a week before its live action adaptation in trying to drum up more of an audience.
    2. The adaptation generated very vocal publicity good and bad.
    3. I think even you can agree that the anime is better than the live action and is an overall good piece of media to be introduced to, whether you prefer other Watanabe creations or find it overrated or not.
    4. And, ultimately, a second season may not have made it any more popular than the first by virtue of viewership statistically dropping between new seasons of properties, regardless of quality or reception, with rare exceptions (such as Breaking Bad notably when it was nearing its conclusion).

    So when we add all these variables together, I think you can agree that it's a net win even if cancelled if you were genuinely interested in it becoming a less """"obscure"""" show.

    Unless, of course, your comment about the cancellation being damaging to the oh so obscure original was totally disingenuous, rooted in no real regard or investment in it, and part of the contrarian gimmick. But I'm sure you'd never do that.

  9. #269
    Yeah subjectively the anime is probably better but personally I always thought it was pretty dull. I found the LA to be alot more fun even if it wasn't as good as the original.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    Yeah subjectively the anime is probably better but personally I always thought it was pretty dull. I found the LA to be alot more fun even if it wasn't as good as the original.
    Wasn't my only point, though. Based on the other factors we're weighing, can you not admit that saying the live action cancellation being damaging to Cowboy Bebop's relevance is a load of hogwash? Any more than Death Note's viewership dropoff tolled poorly for that absolute esoteric and hidden gem (/s) of a series.

  11. #271
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    I never cared for the live action remake, but the cancellation does suck for those that want to see another season.
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  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Wasn't my only point, though. Based on the other factors we're weighing, can you not admit that saying the live action cancellation being damaging to Cowboy Bebop's relevance is a load of hogwash? Any more than Death Note's viewership dropoff tolled poorly for that absolute esoteric and hidden gem (/s) of a series.
    No, I'm pretty sure without the LA the anime will go on to be remembered by only hardcore anime fans. Though even without the LA this would have been the case because the anime just isn't as great as fans think it is. It wasn't even that popular in Japan at least in comparison to the absolute reverence western fans have for it.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by everydaygamer View Post
    No, I'm pretty sure without the LA the anime will go on to be remembered by only hardcore anime fans. Though even without the LA this would have been the case because the anime just isn't as great as fans think it is. It wasn't even that popular in Japan at least in comparison to the absolute reverence western fans have for it.
    But the live-action does exist. There's no indication a second season would have done jack shit, because if someone is leaning entirely on their consumption of that, they're probably not watching the anime anyway. That means its cancellation does little to impact things for those who do care about the health of the anime itself, and means that the anime is out there who wanted more and hadn't seen it.

    That was the crux of my argument. That cancellation of the live-action doesn't make it "stay obscure" as you said, but does either nothing or has already benefitted it. You evidently didn't understand it, so I'm not really sure how well you're able to keep up.

  14. #274
    This doesn’t shock me. They didn’t respect the source material and tried for a cash grab.

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  15. #275
    Thats too bad, I would have watched a season 2.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Thats too bad, I would have watched a season 2.
    Same. I was interested enough to see where they took it. I didn't think it was terrible and I think they could have done better with a second run. Oh well.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    But those assholes aren't the reason it failed. It failed because of viewership because many feel it's not very good. Picking out only the most extreme voices to avoid any kind of reflection is a lazy way to process this.

    As far as being obscure, Bebop isn't Naruto or anything but...known only by hardcore? What? Huh? Do you know what obscure anime look like? Bebop wouldn't have snagged a live action adaptation if it was obscure in the first place. Even if it was 20 years ago, Bebop still has a ton of nostalgia because of when and where it aired, and it's still one of the first ones you hear when you get asked "What's an anime for people who don't like anime?"

    Anime remains pretty niche compared to when it was a mainstay on CN's blocks. But Bebop's still one of the most basic bitch animes you can list, around the Fullmetals, Evangelions, and Code Geasses. It's not up with your Dragonball or Naruto, but it's still firmly in that tier of popularity...and not everything NEEDS to be as big as those, nor will everything stylistically appeal as such.
    Sounds pretty similar to what happen with the Warcraft movie. Based on the most popular game of an entire genre and could easily be described as one of the most “basic bitch” of nerd games due to its name recognition, and yet people just didn’t care about it. Yeah, it was a bad movie and got terrible reviews from the get go, but it’s viewership outside of China was absolutely abysmal. People, despite recognizing the name, just weren’t interested.

    I don’t know what Cowboy Beebop’s viewer numbers were like, but if people like myself who recognized the name but didn’t fit into its niche fandom weren’t interested from the get go, then it very well may be that the majority of its audience were those dissatisfied fans that trashed it online just because it wasn’t the perfect adaptation. Maybe. I wouldn’t know because name recognition doesn’t automatically create interest.

  18. #278
    It's possible it extended predominantly to anime fans. But it's pretty damning that it fell off massively after the first week, about 59% total. At least some of that has to be quality-based.

  19. #279
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Probably because general Netflix sheeple prefers "YOU" and "Riverdale" lol...
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  20. #280
    My friend told me she actually liked this lmao.

    She doesn't know yet.

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