Patch 9.2 PTR - Cypher Research: Aealic Understanding Preview

[NoiseTank13]

*Goes crosseyed reading this pile of dead horsemeat design by Ion*

[Tiwack]

My only problem with this is that the bullet points here aren't included in tooltips ingame making this feel way more convoluted than it needs to be.

[Ardourdan]

Another system to manage and place returning players ever farther away from catching up. As a player that returned last week, all I can say is WoW has never been this bad for returning players. There are way too many systems and you have no hope of performing on par with old friends for weeks and weeks with this conduit system the way it is. Ridiculous.

[LazarusLong]

Another system to manage and place returning players ever farther away from catching up. As a player that returned last week, all I can say is WoW has never been this bad for returning players. There are way too many systems and you have no hope of performing on par with old friends for weeks and weeks with this conduit system the way it is. Ridiculous.

The system is literally designed to give you a catch-up gear.

[FelPlague]

I love all of you here crying and screaming about a "forced power system"

When this is literally an OPTIONAL OPEN WORLD BUFF mechanic. and nothing more. you do not need ot farm this for any actual power, nor is it even required, you can literally ignore this entire thing. but for people who want this, they have the option to mess with these to make completing open world content faster and more exciting.

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Another system to manage and place returning players ever farther away from catching up. As a player that returned last week, all I can say is WoW has never been this bad for returning players. There are way too many systems and you have no hope of performing on par with old friends for weeks and weeks with this conduit system the way it is. Ridiculous.

except you dont need to manage it, as it is entirely optional and has NO EFFECT on your performance anywhere important.

[Barrylapses]

FelPlague is right 100% agree

[Tziva]

The system is literally designed to give you a catch-up gear.

I think the point they are making is that these added systems add a daunting amount of things to keep track of and learn about. The complexity is a deterrent for coming back because it can feel like an intimidating amount of stuff to figure out. You hear returning players say this again and again. Even as a player who is actively subbed, works on a fan site, and reads patch notes, sometimes this stuff feels overwhelming for me.

In terms of actual gear catchup to returning players/alts/rerolls, I actually think WoW does a pretty good job with this most patches.

I love all of you here crying and screaming about a "forced power system"

When this is literally an OPTIONAL OPEN WORLD BUFF mechanic. and nothing more. you do not need ot farm this for any actual power, nor is it even required, you can literally ignore this entire thing. but for people who want this, they have the option to mess with these to make completing open world content faster and more exciting.

except you dont need to manage it, as it is entirely optional and has NO EFFECT on your performance anywhere important.

It doesn't matter. The massive volume of convoluted systems introduced to the game is bad design and isn't something players are asking for (and in many cases are asking not to have). Whether it's optional isn't particularly relevant IMO; it's still a reflection of the shift in design philosophy over the more simpler systems of the past, and that is still wholly worthy of criticism.

Frankly, one could argue any of the power systems WoW has introduced are optional outside of world first raiders if inclined, but the point is that throwing in a new one every single patch isn't an enjoyable type of content for many players, especially when many of them aren't intuitive and require outside reading to fully understand their functionality.

[LazarusLong]

I think the point they are making is that these added systems add a daunting amount of things to keep track of and learn about. The complexity is a deterrent for coming back because it can feel like an intimidating amount of stuff to figure out. You hear returning players say this again and again. Even as a player who is actively subbed, works on a fan site, and reads patch notes, sometimes this stuff feels overwhelming for me.

In terms of actual gear catchup to returning players/alts/rerolls, I actually think WoW does a pretty good job with this most patches.

It doesn't matter. The massive volume of convoluted systems introduced to the game is bad design and isn't something players are asking for (and in many cases are asking not to have). Whether it's optional isn't particularly relevant IMO; it's still a reflection of the shift in design philosophy over the more simpler systems of the past, and that is still wholly worthy of criticism.

Have you actually played PTR? Because the system is introduced through the zone story. There is nothing complex about it.

[Th3Scourge]

I'm glad Blizzard has given us the option to skip their dogshit systems and can now just raidlog and wait for the next legion timewalking

Seriously, Legion timewalking has reminded me how far wow has fallen. The dungeon and boss design is so far above the garbage we got for BfA and SL and truly feels like wow

[FelPlague]

Have you actually played PTR? Because the system is introduced through the zone story. There is nothing complex about it.

100% this, it is not at all complex, it looks complex because mmochamp have shown you literally everything all at once and made it a super long page of stuff
ingame its not at all complex. it would be like saying "teir sets are too complex" because you look at a guide that shows every teir set bonus ever all in a massive list.

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I'm glad Blizzard has given us the option to skip their dogshit systems and can now just raidlog and wait for the next legion timewalking

Seriously, Legion timewalking has reminded me how far wow has fallen. The dungeon and boss design is so far above the garbage we got for BfA and SL and truly feels like wow

wait what? my dude, mosto fthe dungeons in legion have bosses almost 1 to 1 for bosses in bfa and shadowlands...

example plaguefall 3rd and nightmare final

players will need to stay near eachother to stop them from getting a debuff for being seperate from other people.
meanwhile you will also need to spread out if you get the debuff to spread from the group
you must also move around the room as needed.

[Th3Scourge]

100% this, it is not at all complex, it looks complex because mmochamp have shown you literally everything all at once and made it a super long page of stuff
ingame its not at all complex. it would be like saying "teir sets are too complex" because you look at a guide that shows every teir set bonus ever all in a massive list.

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wait what? my dude, mosto fthe dungeons in legion have bosses almost 1 to 1 for bosses in bfa and shadowlands...

example plaguefall 3rd and nightmare final

players will need to stay near eachother to stop them from getting a debuff for being seperate from other people.
meanwhile you will also need to spread out if you get the debuff to spread from the group
you must also move around the room as needed.

LOL ok dude, you honestly think that SL dungeon design is on par with Legion dungeon design? Apart from the obvious overtuning, Legion dungeons was M+ at its absolutely pinnacle. M+ participation is at an all time low now

[Tziva]

LOL ok dude, you honestly think that SL dungeon design is on par with Legion dungeon design? Apart from the obvious overtuning, Legion dungeons was M+ at its absolutely pinnacle. M+ participation is at an all time low now

What style of mythic plus dungeon design you prefer is pretty subjective. I think Legion is a much stronger expansion overall and definitely had some dungeons I loved, but I have enjoyed each subsequent expac iteration of m+ more than the last personally.

As far as participation, it seems you're just outright incorrect. Raider.io has stats for every season starting with Legion's season 7.2 (which I think is the second one) and every single Legion season had significantly less runs compared to every season of BFA and both SL seasons so far, with SL season 1 being the peak participation across all M+. It's possible I'm overlooking something, so I'd welcome any evidence to the contrary besides your personal preference.

[FelPlague]

LOL ok dude, you honestly think that SL dungeon design is on par with Legion dungeon design? Apart from the obvious overtuning, Legion dungeons was M+ at its absolutely pinnacle. M+ participation is at an all time low now

none of that is true but k.

[Nohara]

But why would I care for unlocking all of this? Outdoor areas aren’t exactly challenging, am I missing something here?

I remember I unlocked the daily buff thing trough the Anima Conductor. I tried a buff once, only to never return to that cave again, as there is no point in wasting my time getting it. How is this gonna be different? Is the zone much harder? If so, then it’s just another way of time gating the content.

[craigw]

only problem i have with this is that it only pertains to open world. who here thinks being in the open world of warcraft is dangerous enough to warrant world buffs? outside of travel speed it is a completely pointless design system that makes you stronger in a world that puts you in no danger at all. i can solo tank every world boss with no dps or healers helping. i can pull 10-15 elites as a tank and never once feel like i could die. i guess blizzard wants me to pull 15-20 elites at a time now that i can get 5% more secondary stat.

[Th3Scourge]

none of that is true but k.

Prove me wrong then

[FelPlague]

Prove me wrong then

prove me right, you are the one who made the claims, show your proof, i shouldnt have to prove your claims wrong, you should prove them right.

[Th3Scourge]

What style of mythic plus dungeon design you prefer is pretty subjective. I think Legion is a much stronger expansion overall and definitely had some dungeons I loved, but I have enjoyed each subsequent expac iteration of m+ more than the last personally.

As far as participation, it seems you're just outright incorrect. Raider.io has stats for every season starting with Legion's season 7.2 (which I think is the second one) and every single Legion season had significantly less runs compared to every season of BFA and both SL seasons so far, with SL season 1 being the peak participation across all M+. It's possible I'm overlooking something, so I'd welcome any evidence to the contrary besides your personal preference.

I'm old enough to remember when r.io didn't log runs below a certain key level threshold because of the volume. This was no longer an issue after 8.0

[FelPlague]

I'm old enough to remember when r.io didn't log runs below a certain key level threshold because of the volume. This was no longer an issue after 8.0

Except that is incorrect, it would not give you perfect info, but it did log them.

3.2 million of 7.2 this is the lowest key with the longest time done.

here is shadowlands. patch 9.1. as you can see...

so again, you are wrong.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...167132#content
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...747645#content
here you go if you want to "prove it" even though again you keep making claims with no evidance.

[LazarusLong]

But why would I care for unlocking all of this? Outdoor areas aren’t exactly challenging, am I missing something here?

I remember I unlocked the daily buff thing trough the Anima Conductor. I tried a buff once, only to never return to that cave again, as there is no point in wasting my time getting it. How is this gonna be different? Is the zone much harder? If so, then it’s just another way of time gating the content.

If we take zones like Timeless Isle or Tanaan, or *welp* Maw there are plenty of places where you can die if not careful. "Progression" for the Maw was on Venari and used the same currency as the player power (bad). Here we have a different approach.