FFXIV Spoiler thread

[Tojara]

Wow, it's almost like a forum shouldn't be used to debate and discuss things about the very subject matter at hand. We should all hold hands in unison and only sing the praises of the subject in question. Your opinion isn't mine, but my friends, free company, discords and favorite streamers have a differing opinion than you, so you must be wrong! People are allowed to have differing opinions dude, and what better time to have an opinion of the entire story when it's basically concluded?

As far as the scions go they've had so many years of development that I don't know what else you could do with them. If you don't like them after 6-10 years (depending on which one), I doubt adding more years and potential story beats is going to change your opinion of them. To me they were okay, but predictable to a tee, with a few of them having really cool stand out stories. For the most part the secondary characters that you don't constantly engage with were far more interesting, but perhaps with over exposure they might be seen in a different light as well.

[Delever]

Wow, it's almost like a forum shouldn't be used to debate and discuss things about the very subject matter at hand. We should all hold hands in unison and only sing the praises of the subject in question. Your opinion isn't mine, but my friends, free company, discords and favorite streamers have a differing opinion than you, so you must be wrong! People are allowed to have differing opinions dude, and what better time to have an opinion of the entire story when it's basically concluded?

As far as the scions go they've had so many years of development that I don't know what else you could do with them. If you don't like them after 6-10 years (depending on which one), I doubt adding more years and potential story beats is going to change your opinion of them. To me they were okay, but predictable to a tee, with a few of them having really cool stand out stories. For the most part the secondary characters that you don't constantly engage with were far more interesting, but perhaps with over exposure they might be seen in a different light as well.

Dont know if this is a reply to me but I of course welcome debate about the subject. I even said that everyone can of course like or dislike the story as they see fit.

I just said the fact that everyone finds their own meaning (or not) to life is not really a narrative to agree or disagree with. Its just a fundamental truth. And disagreed with a few things that were made up such as that the scions are enforcing their ideas on other people which literally never happens past ARR.

[Lane]

Thematically, EW did not resonate with me. I also had different interpretations of events than others, at least the areas where I was allowed to have a different interpretation. The writing in EW is so heavy handed there was no questioning what happened because the NPCs would corroborate your course was the only right and possible one. It's one of the reasons I ended up disliking Y'shtola whereas I had no bias against her going into EW.

I wish I'd liked it, I wanted to, but it was disappointing for a multitude of reasons including there being too many inconsistencies following ShB. I don't like the "yOu DiDn'T uNdErStAnD tHe StOrY" nonsense. It depended a lot on which elements of the story you liked and didn't like going into it. Anyone who was #TeamHydaelyn and indifferent to the Ancients would come away feeling more satisfied than the converse, for example.

[Jazzhands]

and nobody has touched on this yet, but Hermes is MASSIVELY overpowered. Every villain that shifts into a super form is dramatically weakened after getting their ass kicked. But the very idea that Hermes, after getting his ass kicked, is still somehow able to tank hard hitting blows from Venat, a character who can hold her own against the WoL, while also swatting away spells from Emet Selch with ease simultaneously, is LUDICROUS. Venat and Emet Selch may have been two of, if not the most powerful combatants on the planet. There is ZERO reason some marine biologist wouldn't get steamrolled instantly in the face of such an offense, much less after getting his butt kicked already. There is no way they wouldn't be able to break whatever feeble chains he'd still be able to summon instantly after being so drained. Now I get why his crazy over the top plot armor had to basically be made out of Gundanium as the plot needed it to happen in order to make the story work. But that, and many other instances, are the crux of why it doesn't. Or at least, doesn't work as well as ShB.

This is literally directly explained on the cutscene before the dungeon. Hermes activates the evacuation protocol which puts up a dampening field that weakens anyone who isn't a registered biologist or scholar or whatever of Elpis. Which none of your group are.

[Tojara]

Dont know if this is a reply to me but I of course welcome debate about the subject. I even said that everyone can of course like or dislike the story as they see fit.

I just said the fact that everyone finds their own meaning (or not) to life is not really a narrative to agree or disagree with. Its just a fundamental truth. And disagreed with a few things that were made up such as that the scions are enforcing their ideas on other people which literally never happens past ARR.

Nah, it's not directed towards you at all.

It's silly for people to presume it's perfect. It's not like people here are saying it's really bad or anything, because it certainly isn't. There are people out there who love SB for whatever reason and that's fine, I just never saw it that way. Some people love RoTJ from Star Wars more than any other film, while others like episode 4 and 5. I still remember coming out of the theaters with episode 1 came out, thinking that it was awesome (and everyone around me thought it was sick too). Not long after when the dust settled did people really start asking themselves it was really that awesome.

Again, for me I don't dislike the Scions, I just liked the secondary characters better more often than not. There are people out there with Y'shtola body pillows, there's no way you're going to convince those people that the character sucks, so why bother and it's their right to like that character for whatever reason that might be.

At the end of the day it's a spoiler forum for the end of an arc that's nearly 10 years in the making. This would be the exact forum you would likely see people picking out parts of the story they liked, didn't like or finding inconsistencies (or just asking questions in general). People picking at parts doesn't mean they fucking hate the game or the story at all, but some people take any sleight as a personal attack for some reason, which is weird. You see parts of it spill over into the queue thread where people are constantly telling those waiting for hours that it's okay or not that big of a deal, essentially making excuses for people who bought they game not being able to really play the game.

[Poppincaps]

This is literally directly explained on the cutscene before the dungeon. Hermes activates the evacuation protocol which puts up a dampening field that weakens anyone who isn't a registered biologist or scholar or whatever of Elpis. Which none of your group are.

This is my issue with a lot of the criticisms people have for the story. A lot of the "plot holes" I've seen pointed out are clearly explained in game. I will say I don't think it's entirely people's faults. I think a lot of people felt the need to stay logged on for very long periods of time and essentially rush through the story to avoid queues and spoilers. I know I certainly felt that pressure. Definitely not the most ideal way to engage with a story.

[Graeham]

There's also the simple fact that some people, quite rightly, feel as though elements of the story were phoned in. Yes, quite a bit of stuff is explained with a line of dialogue here and a line of dialogue there. Again, though, that does not mean that something makes sense or wasn't just pulled out of nowhere with little to no prior build up in the eyes of some.

The game is very good at making it seem like it was planned all along, but then there's elements of the story that were never touched upon again or fizzled out completely.

I also think it does a disservice to act like all of the criticism is coming from people who don't follow the story. I've posted about the lore and followed it for years. Despite that, I think Endwalker was a swing and a miss on many fronts. I know quite a lot of people who feel the same way, though feel free to take that with a pinch of salt.

[Vakir]

Anyone who was #TeamHydaelyn and indifferent to the Ancients would come away feeling more satisfied than the converse, for example.

Weird, I didn't care about Hydaelyn prior to Endwalker and the Ancients (barring Lahabrea) are my favorite characters.

Maybe I'm just not a fujoshi. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Zelk]

Good expansion overall. Elpis and the moon were the highlights for me. I was hoping we would fight a normal sized endboss for once and then Meteion decided to become another big lady standing in front of a round platform. Oh and god Zenos is by far the worst character in the game and he better be actually finished now.

[Pannonian]

I don't think people bringing up inconsistencies are "not understanding/following the story" - some of the posters here (like Val) are much deeper into the story than many others.

These discussions here are interesting and i learned quite a bit which i may interpreted wrong or missed - not that i skipped anything (bar one role quest for a bit) but i felt like Poppincaps - needed to stay logged in to avoid queues and spoilers - resulting in 14-16 hours story/day for 3 days. There are things one will miss.

But in the end, how people like the story is highly subjective. No one will convince anybody that the story is bad/good and his opinion is wrong.

Personally i feel like i do with a lot of (Science) Fiction - i don't try too hard to find logical inconsistencies. Much more important is if the story touches my emotions, and personally i can say it did - only the (some poster mentioned it) the somewhat preachy "Be happy with what you have, don't strive for happiness/perfection" rubs me the wrong way as it is the message that has been used for centuries to keep the "lower classes in their place".

Apart from that i laughed, i cried a bit - that's what i want. I would draw parallels to the original Star Wars or Lord of the Rings - its fictions and one can always find problems with a fictional story. Why do laser sabers block each others? Why didn't the Hobbits use the eagles in the beginning? If you try to rationalize everything you end up like Star Trek with hilarious hundred site manuals of warp drives.

Not that i want to try to stop this debate (as if i could...) but just keep in mind that at the end of the day its highly subjective if someone likes the story or not.

[Dartz1979]

i wish minfilia would be brought back she was my favorite lore character

[zealo]

i wish minfilia would be brought back she was my favorite lore character

At this point, that would cheapen her whole character arc with where that already went after ARR up through ShB.

[ippollite]

I think this is a wonderfully productive waste of everyone's time. If nothing else it might deepen the idea of 'suffering' and 'nihilism'. Heres one of my favorite koans (well, remembered from a dull memory... actually, i bothered to find it):

The priest Sekiso said, “How do you step from the top of a hundred foot pole?” Another eminent master of former times, Changsha, said, “You who sit on the top of a hundred-foot pole, although you’ve entered the way, it is not yet genuine. Take a step from the top of the pole and worlds of the ten directions are your total body.”

Mumon’s Comment
Stepping forward, turning back, is there anything to reject as ignoble or unworthy? Be that as it may, how do you step from the top of a hundred-foot pole? Sah!

The Verse
He darkened the eye in his forehead
and clung to the mark on the scale.
Throw away body and discard life,
and the blind one leads the blind.

The point was never to just sit there in your achievement of satori. Why go to all that trouble just to end up alone atop a flagpole. The point is to move. Its to get the fuck off the pole (and possibly, as one direction, help others climb it).

Anyways, thats not the thing i wanted to add. Heres the thing i wanted to add (found through reddit): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...7_js9xYQ/edit#

The key things to note are notions of suffering and nihilism for the general discussion in the thread.

[Katchii]

Not that i want to try to stop this debate (as if i could...) but just keep in mind that at the end of the day its highly subjective if someone likes the story or not.

My only gripe about discussions like this, as others have already stated, is that many folks dislike of portions of the story stems from supposed disconnects, misunderstandings, misses, etc... within the story. i.e. "this wasn't explained!" when it actually was.

Some of them stem from different interpretations of the same situation. And in some cases, that subjectivity is completely understandable, because the game has clearly allowed that subjectivity to exist. In other cases, I honestly can't wrap my head around how people interpret some of the situations differently because the game all but holds your hand and tells you exactly what you're supposed to know and understand. And in these cases, it usually comes back to them misunderstanding, missing or ignoring story beats that happened previously, for whatever reason.

I won't say they're wrong, because they're allowed to have their own opinions and interpretations of things. But in some cases, I seriously can't wrap my head around those opinions or interpretations. They make absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. /shrug, doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all, so whatever. Enjoy it your way.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

6.1 through 7.0 and beyond speculation

I'm guessing 6.1 will have be a string of isolated adventures, with a mix of new characters and old. The WoL will pick up a new cast of party members over the course of the patches, with the dungeons containing a mix of old and new characters. Ie, maybe in 6.1, the WoL picks up a newbie conjurer girl at the adventurers guild, and then she tags along with the WoL to Thavnair on the request of Vytra, and then the WoL, the new character, Varshan, and Estinien raid a dungeon for charity (as in 4.1). Or with Hoary Boulder and Coultenent. Maybe in 6.2, you acquire another new character, so the dungeon could be the WoL, the two new characters, and maybe an old character guest starring. And then by 4.3 you could potentially be running dungeons with the new cast entirely. And then 7.0 we ship off to the next continent with our new cast of characters in tow.

[Merie]

I don't want Hoary Boulder. I just want to go on adventuring with Emet Selch and Hythlo forever...

[Lane]

I don't want Hoary Boulder. I just want to go on adventuring with Emet Selch and Hythlo forever...

Same. They really are the two best characters in the series and their adventures with Azem sounded like a lot more fun than the WoL's ever had. I wish they'd just let us play as Azem at some point instead of as the "broken husk" or "familiar" of them.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Gotta agree, i will miss tsundere Emet and happy-go-lucky Hythlodaeus :/

[Leyre]

lol once I rolled credits and realized none of the Scions died I knew Val wouldn't like Endwalker.

I loved it. It was a hopeful story in a time where the real world is in a very dark place and people are becoming more and more nihilistic. I found Hermes to be far more relatable than I expected. I often feel that I am far more empathetic than the people around me to the point where other people's strong emotions greatly affect me. It's been a large source of my personal suffering and depression, much like it seemed to be the case for Hermes. I obviously completely disagree with his conclusions but I certainly understand where he's coming from.

Sure it can be a bit cheesy and idealistic, but I much prefer that kinda of storytelling right now than the brutal realism that's popular nowadays.

If anyone though a Scion was gonna die after they said Thancred was still lingering about, then kek to you

Edit: Also, is it possible to create a macro to turn mount music on/off? i fucking love the music on ultima

[Lagmonster]

Just moving my original post from the mega thread to here.

This is just some speculation on my part. But do you guys think going forward with the story for 6.1+, they will try and lower our "power level" so to speak? I'm mainly thinking about the whole Zeno's fight and his dialogue at the end. He mentioned his life's candle in Garlemald when he talked to our character. And then brings it up again at the end fight. Where he came to the decision to use up his life's candle on this fight, and how we don't waste ours on pointless fights. So by accepting that battle, channeling so much Dynamis, and being left on the brink of death. Could that be an avenue for lowering our character power narratively?

I'm just wondering how others think they will go forward? I mean we defeated a cosmic terror and a literal monster of a man power scale wise. Along with two of the most powerful primals to ever exist. I certainly don't want too see the story go down the line of DBZ with ever increasing scales of cosmic power being thrown around. Maybe I'm going down the wrong rabbit hole and it wont happen that way. We still have Pandaemonium to deal with after all.