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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    That's what I plan to do. But that doesn't answer my question of what the point of the system is.
    The point is that a lot of people enjoy the feeling of progression and unlocking fun rewards - this system gives them exactly that.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by rayvio View Post
    exactly. levelling, gearing, talent points, heart of azeroth, covenants, cyphers, it's all doing content to get better at doing content
    That's an incredibly dishonest approach. All these things make you stronger overall. You level up so you can enter new forms of content. You get better gear so you can be stronger everywhere.

    The Cypher system is a system that is designed to make you stronger only for the sole purpose of getting Cyphers more easily. Which you don't need other than to progress in the Cypher system. And even so, the content is so trivial that the difference is minimal anyway. You won't feel the 5% crit increase for 15 minutes while collecting apples for a world quest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    The point is that a lot of people enjoy the feeling of progression and unlocking fun rewards - this system gives them exactly that.
    Good. Give them things to unlock that have a purpose other than making the unlocking process slightly easier.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post

    That's what I plan to do. But that doesn't answer my question of what the point of the system is.
    .
    As others have explained already to you it’s an optional system which gives you some extra player power in outdoor Zereth Mortis, some consumables like mounts, pets etc and also allows you to fly when you progress far enough

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    So it only works in the outdoor zone in Zereth Mortis, not in the new raid. So you do world quests, get Cyphers, pick talents and then get stronger at doing world quests? Why should I feel like I have to engage with this system at all? It feels like this entire system is merely designed to make progressing through the system easier.

    That's like that joke Jerry Seinfeld did, we only do the workout, so we're strong enough to get through the workout.

    1. People want a system similar to talents back. Blizzard implements a system that does a similar function with other things and isn't required. People get irritated and don't want to do it because it doesn't increase raid power.
    2. People want systems that aren't required. Blizzard makes a system that isn't required and people find it not worth doing after all.
    3. People want optional rewards only attached to system. Blizzard makes a system with optional rewards and people still aren't happy.

    In short, people will complain about what they want, when something is done close to it they then complain about being not worth it.

    The only thing that would make it "required" feeling is if you want the 2nd legendary and I'm not sure if they released how that will be implemented and how it ties to this system.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    As others have explained already to you it’s an optional system which gives you some extra player power in outdoor Zereth Mortis
    And as I am trying to tell you, it is absolutely pointless. It's like if a boss dropped an item that gave you a consumable that gives you a 1% damage increase for the next week against that boss. And that's all it gives you. Why kill that boss?
    Last edited by alejandroo; 2021-12-16 at 02:33 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    Good. Give them things to unlock that have a purpose other than making the unlocking process slightly easier.
    You know what, I could actually agree with this, because I do think that small combat buffs aren't that creative, but I strongly disagree with the notion that every system has to be relevant for all forms of content (e.g. give buffs that work inside raids).

    But then, it also gives you things like unlocking new content or the ability to customize the look of your pet, which are nice. I'd like more of that.

  7. #27
    Its there to timegate the double lego and crafting tier sets, afterwards no player power, so essentially developer time spent on it is just for the timegating.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    but I strongly disagree with the notion that every system has to be relevant for all forms of content (e.g. give buffs that work inside raids).
    Not all forms. Pet battles can be excluded. But raids and dungeons? That's the only places where character power matters. Outdoor content is trivial. You don't need a 5 crit buff for a quest that requires you to kill 5 non-elite dreadlords.

    These developers aren't even playing their own game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    The point is for players that want to do it? The world doesn't revolve around your sole wants and needs.
    Oh yeah. All those players that are only waiting for this patch to release so they can do 3 world quests and 3 dailies a day where they get to pick up apples and rescue vombata cubs. Every day. So they can get slightly better at picking up apples and rescuing vombata cubs.

  9. #29
    It's a little progression system for optional rewards and an attempt to improve the open-world content, something this game sorely needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  10. #30
    Obviously Blizzard is making it for people like you to make pointless threads about and complain about optional systems.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    It's a little progression system for optional rewards and an attempt to improve the open-world content, something this game sorely needs.
    What are the rewards?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    What are the rewards?
    Right now the rewards are the tears of people who believe that every little thing implemented in the game needs to increase only raid and dungeon power. It's part of the problem the game has where it focuses only on those types of people instead of also expanding to other areas of the game that people enjoy.

    Just because you don't enjoy something or think something is stupid doesn't mean that at least 10% of the other people out there will find it enjoyable.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    So it only works in the outdoor zone in Zereth Mortis, not in the new raid. So you do world quests, get Cyphers, pick talents and then get stronger at doing world quests? Why should I feel like I have to engage with this system at all? It feels like this entire system is merely designed to make progressing through the system easier.

    That's like that joke Jerry Seinfeld did, we only do the workout, so we're strong enough to get through the workout.
    It's a flavor system that uses a grind mechanic to build a reputation and open up the zone storyline by organically learning the language of the Automa in Zereth Mortis, getting more background on the First Ones and the purpose of the installation while also getting some zone buffs, pets, mounts, and what have you. It doesn't require you to engage with it if you don't want to, just like you can skip doing all the leveling quests in WoW's various zones by power-leveling through dungeons before you hit heroic, mythics, or raiding. Yes, if you were to opt-out you may view 9.2 as being light on content, but then that's true of every expansion and/or content patch in any MMO you can name.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Right now the rewards are the tears of people who believe that every little thing implemented in the game needs to increase only raid and dungeon power.
    It's either character power or cosmetics. This system provides neither. And even if it did give cosmetics, I wouldn't be in favor of a system that wastes your time for weeks just to give you a cosmetics. And raids and dungeons have always provided both anyway. They give you player power and cosmetics. This system is redundant. Nobody will have one second of fun with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    It's a flavor system
    The flavor being shit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Just because you don't enjoy something or think something is stupid doesn't mean that at least 10% of the other people out there will find it enjoyable.
    Ok then explain to me what there is to enjoy about a system that requires you to grind and as a reward only makes it slightly easier to continue grinding currency for that same system?

    Give me one argument. Instead you just keep saying "maybe someone will like it".

    Some people like to eat shit. And this is literal shit.

    That is not an argument.

    Make just one argument as to why this system is good.

    You can't and you won't.

  15. #35
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    The flavor being shit?
    If you like, although if this is your takeaway that makes this thread something of a pointless endeavor. You already dislike the story and/or zone, you're not apt to want to engage with it, so the answer to your OP is that for you there is no point and your time would be best spent elsewhere or on something else.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    It's either character power or cosmetics.
    Here's your first problem. A system doesn't have to be either or and cater to your tastes.

    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    This system provides neither. And even if it did give cosmetics, I wouldn't be in favor of a system that wastes your time for weeks just to give you a cosmetics.
    Yet the same people who complain about this are quite happy with Reputation Vendors offering cosmetic upgrades and "wasting" time grinding the rep.

    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    nd raids and dungeons have always provided both anyway. They give you player power and cosmetics.
    Except that system caters to only those who do those activities. This system caters to the other type.

    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    This system is redundant. Nobody will have one second of fun with it.
    That's what you think. There will be people who enjoy it. Personally, I'm looking forward to it. Even if I only do it on my main.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    Ok then explain to me what there is to enjoy about a system that requires you to grind and as a reward only makes it slightly easier to continue grinding currency for that same system?

    Give me one argument. Instead you just keep saying "maybe someone will like it".

    Some people like to eat shit. And this is literal shit.

    That is not an argument.

    Make just one argument as to why this system is good.

    You can't and you won't.
    The difference is people don't have to argue why they enjoy something. This is simply because any reason someone gives you, you will immediately dismiss it as not being valid.

    That's like for the people who don't raid and ask you to give them a reason why it is good. You mention player power and they say its terrible. Same concept here.

    Secondly, the entire system isn't even implemented only most of it. Lastly, if you must know one of the main things I'm looking forward to is the language learning. It reminds me of the concept from FFX with Al Bhed primers which I enjoyed. Secondly there will likely be resources or stuff to farm from the mobs outside, which I know I'll have terrible RNG, and being able to perform them a bit faster is nice as well.

  18. #38
    To all those defending this system. Think about it like this for a second. A talent in the system requires you to spend 60 Cyphers. A world quest gives roughly 12 Cyphers. So that means 5 world quests to unlock this talent. Let's say a world quest takes 10 minutes to complete. That's 50 minutes of time to get those 60 Cyphers. That's the time you invested. Now you can sacrifice those Cypher to get the talent from the system. The talents you can pick from are talents such as "you only need 5 energy instead of 6 energy to active a combat enhancement" or "the combat enhancements are active for an additional 15 minutes" and things like that.

    Now you have those 60 Cyphers, and they represent 50 minutes of the time you invested. Would it be worth it to give them up to pick one of these talents? Does the benefit these talents give you make up for the 50 minutes of playtime you just had to invest to get these Cyphers together.

    The answer to that riddle is no.

    Pick one of these talents, then go do more world quests. It'll take you the same 50 minutes to get the same 60 Cyphers together. And you'll be confronted with the same choice. Do I wanna give up these 60 Cyphers that I had to invest 50 minutes of my precious time to get?

    The answer will still be no.

    Because the character power increase you get through them is minimal and the content you're doing is already trivial.

    Even if there was a mount that costs 1000 Cyphers to get, it would still be pointless to waste them on talents. It would be especially pointless to waste them on talents, because you need them for the mount and the talents don't help you with that.

    The talents don't help you with anything. They're pointless.

    This is a maze with no reward at the end.

    The reward is a fortune cookie that says "haha, you're a retard".

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    To all those defending this system. Think about it like this for a second. A talent in the system requires you to spend 60 Cyphers. A world quest gives roughly 12 Cyphers. So that means 5 world quests to unlock this talent. Let's say a world quest takes 10 minutes to complete. That's 50 minutes of time to get those 60 Cyphers. That's the time you invested. Now you can sacrifice those Cypher to get the talent from the system. The talents you can pick from are talents such as "you only need 5 energy instead of 6 energy to active a combat enhancement" or "the combat enhancements are active for an additional 15 minutes" and things like that.

    Now you have those 60 Cyphers, and they represent 50 minutes of the time you invested. Would it be worth it to give them up to pick one of these talents? Does the benefit these talents give you make up for the 50 minutes of playtime you just had to invest to get these Cyphers together.

    The answer to that riddle is no.

    Pick one of these talents, then go do more world quests. It'll take you the same 50 minutes to get the same 60 Cyphers together. And you'll be confronted with the same choice. Do I wanna give up these 60 Cyphers that I had to invest 50 minutes of my precious time to get?

    The answer will still be no.

    Because the character power increase you get through them is minimal and the content you're doing is already trivial.

    Even if there was a mount that costs 1000 Cyphers to get, it would still be pointless to waste them on talents. It would be especially pointless to waste them on talents, because you need them for the mount and the talents don't help you with that.

    The talents don't help you with anything. They're pointless.

    This is a maze with no reward at the end.

    The reward is a fortune cookie that says "haha, you're a retard".
    K.
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    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Here's your first problem. A system doesn't have to be either or and cater to your tastes.
    What the fuck does that mean? That it doesn't have to be either power progression or cosmetics? What else is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Yet the same people who complain about this are quite happy with Reputation Vendors offering cosmetic upgrades and "wasting" time grinding the rep.
    They're not happy with it, they're doing it because that's the only way of getting the cosmetics.

    I care about glyph recipes and I need to get rep for some of those. Doesn't mean I like the process. Just means I like to get my stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Except that system caters to only those who do those activities. This system caters to the other type.
    What the fuck are you talking about? What type of activity? World quests? Daily quests? The activity is doing quests. The rewards are cosmetics and power progressions. Quests can and have rewarded players in the past with both power progression and cosmetics.

    Where are these people that want to do content for no reward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    That's what you think. There will be people who enjoy it. Personally, I'm looking forward to it. Even if I only do it on my main.
    You still have not told me why you enjoy doing world quests and dailies so you can pick talents, that will grant you minimal power upgrades for a limited area.

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