Kentucky Factory workers threatened with firing if they left before tornado - 8 Dead

[Zan15]

Or they just bet on the tornado not causing the kind of damage that would kill them, which is probably still better odds than 100% sure on losing your job.


But hey, i get it, any form of labour regulations hurts the billionares and millionares, and we can't have that!

sure, we can and I've made it quite clear we need a massive overhaul of the employment, unemployment and labor rules/regulations in this country.

Also who said the odds on losing your job were 100%?

[downnola]

sure, we can and I've made it quite clear we need a massive overhaul of the employment, unemployment and labor rules/regulations in this country.

Also who said the odds on losing your job were 100%?

The managers who told them they would lose their job, per the article?

And I'm sure the employment options in the industrious town of Mayfield, KY are just great considering these workers were paid $.25 more than the federal minimum wage.

[cubby]

are you really comparing physical force to this? Instant death to walking off your job? ?Do you really want to be taken seriously?

I see you're still obtusely missing the boat on this issue. Seven people now have patiently tried to explain the force/coercion issue with you, in relation to this thread topic. Have you considered that you might be wrong yet? Remember when we talked about your ability to admit being wrong? This is one of those times.

[Zan15]

The managers who told them they would lose their job, per the article?.

The article also pointed out people who said their managers told them it was ok to leave.
The company also put out a statement that said that was entirely false and those people would not have lost their jobs and were allowed to leave.

And I'm sure the employment options in the industrious town of Mayfield, KY are just great considering these workers were paid $.25 more than the federal minimum wage.

From what i can see from a quick job search there are other warehouse jobs that pay better in the same location and within 20 miles. They seem to be a good location in the state to plant a warehouse in. the amazon location that was destroyed paid a lot higher that 25 cents above min wage

[cubby]

The company also put out a statement that said that was entirely false and those people would not have lost their jobs and were allowed to leave.

I wonder if the company would have any reason to lie?

[Zan15]

I see you're still obtusely missing the boat on this issue. Seven people now have patiently tried to explain the force/coercion issue with you, in relation to this thread topic. Have you considered that you might be wrong yet? Remember when we talked about your ability to admit being wrong? This is one of those times.

he specifically spoke about a gun being held against someone's head...and that i would say he still had a choice....but its me.

hahahah, great. Not a great mountain to stick your flag on.

[cubby]

he specifically spoke about a gun being held against someone's head...and that i would say he still had a choice....but its me.

hahahah, great. Not a great mountain to stick your flag on.

Was it possibly an analogy? Is it possible the hill you don't think is such a great one to stick a flag on is the one you're currently dying on? Because, even after pages and pages and pages of 7+ different people explaining to you what forced/coercion means, you still don't understand it. Have you considered the possibility that they aren't all wrong, and perhaps it's something else?

[Zan15]

I wonder if the company would have any reason to lie?

I wonder if individuals have any reason to lie, especially since there are conflicting reports on exactly what managers were saying depending on location, manager and employee.

Nah, employees don't lie only big evil corporations!

Ever manage a group of 23 warehouse employees on an overnight shift?
Ever manage a group of 54 temps?
Ever manage at all?


Sure, there could be bad managers who did the wrong things and corporations that have bad policy, but come on are you trying to imply there is no way some of these statements by employees are false?

[cubby]

I wonder if individuals have any reason to lie, especially since there are conflicting reports on exactly what managers were saying depending on location, manager and employee.

Nah, employees don't lie only big evil corporations!

Ever manage a group of 23 warehouse employees on an overnight shift?
Ever manage a group of 54 temps?
Ever manage at all?

Sure, there could be bad managers who did the wrong things and corporations that have bad policy, but come on are you trying to imply there is no way some of these statements by employees are false?

Of course employees lie. That's a no-shit point. What you still don't understand that all accounts from that day can be equally correct. Two HUGE points you have yet to understand, and these aren't even that tough. Mixed messages before and during the event, and then the company lying about it afterwards.


Texts and messages prior to the tornado hitting are more valid that post-anything, if that makes sense.

[Zan15]

Was it possibly an analogy? Is it possible the hill you don't think is such a great one to stick a flag on is the one you're currently dying on? Because, even after pages and pages and pages of 7+ different people explaining to you what forced/coercion means, you still don't understand it. Have you considered the possibility that they aren't all wrong, and perhaps it's something else?

nah, go back and read it. it was a literal example which is what made it ridiculous.

I fully understand what you say it is.
I disagree with the levels you consider "forced" and the inability of employees to have the ability to make choices at those levels especially since people did in fact make the choice to leave while possibly being under the same "force or coercion".

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Of course employees lie. That's a no-shit point. What you still don't understand that all accounts from that day can be equally correct. Two HUGE points you have yet to understand, and these aren't even that tough. Mixed messages before and during the event, and then the company lying about it afterwards.


Texts and messages prior to the tornado hitting are more valid that post-anything, if that makes sense.

Could it possibly be that the company is telling the truth and managers, if they did in fact threatened the way the article and employees said they did, did so without authority or company directive? Why the immediate jump that they are lying without proof?

you keep saying all accounts from that day can be equally correct, would that not also include that people were not forced and the company is telling the truth?

[downnola]

The article also pointed out people who said their managers told them it was ok to leave.
The company also put out a statement that said that was entirely false and those people would not have lost their jobs and were allowed to leave.

Exactly one person (a team lead, which is a step below middle management) claimed peoples jobs weren't threatened if they didn't go in. That's a different claim from "nobody is fired if they leave during this storm."

From what i can see from a quick job search there are other warehouse jobs that pay better in the same location and within 20 miles. They seem to be a good location in the state to plant a warehouse in. the amazon location that was destroyed paid a lot higher that 25 cents above min wage

On Indeed, I see two postal service jobs, a position at Interstate Batteries that requires forklift certification, and two warehouse positions that pay 10 dollars or less.

Again, the job opportunities in Mayfield are not exactly booming, nor are these workers really in a position to just pick and choose another place to work at their leisure. The idea that most people have that freedom is a myth, usually propagated by someone who lives such a privileged life that they're simply unaware that it's a myth.

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I wonder if individuals have any reason to lie, especially since there are conflicting reports on exactly what managers were saying depending on location, manager and employee.

Nah, employees don't lie only big evil corporations!

Ever manage a group of 23 warehouse employees on an overnight shift?
Ever manage a group of 54 temps?
Ever manage at all?


Sure, there could be bad managers who did the wrong things and corporations that have bad policy, but come on are you trying to imply there is no way some of these statements by employees are false?

Why are you so pressed to victim blame and just take a company like this at their word?

The big evil corporation has more to lose by admitting wrongdoing (or straight up ineptitude) after a tornado rips through one of their warehouses and kills eight workers. On what planet would a company ever admit to being in the wrong in that situation? Stop insulting everyone's intelligence.

[Glorious Leader]

Was it possibly an analogy?

It was hes just playing stupid and acting outraged. He knows full well the point that was being made.

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nah, go back and read it. it was a literal example which is what made it ridiculous.

Which is arguable a mistake on my part, not because it was a bad analogy but because it gave you a retarded hangup to die on. Now you can just guffaw at the outrageous extremity of what I said, feign and pretend to be shocked instead of actually addressing the point which you cannot.

For the record ill state it again as succinctly as I possible can for anyone who is interested in a conversation and not inanity. Quite simple quality of choice matters. Not all choices are equitable or even tolerable. When choice is so poor it can be said not to exist at all.

[Orange Joe]

The article also pointed out people who said their managers told them it was ok to leave.
The company also put out a statement that said that was entirely false and those people would not have lost their jobs and were allowed to leave.




From what i can see from a quick job search there are other warehouse jobs that pay better in the same location and within 20 miles. They seem to be a good location in the state to plant a warehouse in. the amazon location that was destroyed paid a lot higher that 25 cents above min wage

.


Cause a shitty company would NEVER lie to cover their ass....

[Zan15]

.

Cause a shitty company would NEVER lie to cover their ass....

Never said they wouldn't.

on the flip side, shitty people won't lie in order to sue for money?

Again, my bet is corporate policy had the right thing to do/the right procedures in place. Local management will end up being found to have been doing things that policies/procedures/HR rules said they shouldn't.

Then it comes down to how shitty of a company it would be for hiring shitty people and not having procedures in place to make sure this didn't happen.

Should be pretty easy for OSHA to verify their claims by asking for proof of policies in place at the time of the tornado.

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It was hes just playing stupid and acting outraged. He knows full well the point that was being made.


Which is arguable a mistake on my part, not because it was a bad analogy but because it gave you a retarded hangup to die on. Now you can just guffaw at the outrageous extremity of what I said, feign and pretend to be shocked instead of actually addressing the point which you cannot.

For the record ill state it again as succinctly as I possible can for anyone who is interested in a conversation and not inanity. Quite simple quality of choice matters. Not all choices are equitable or even tolerable. When choice is so poor it can be said not to exist at all.

Nah it was a ridiculous exaggeration having no relevance to the discussion.

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Exactly one person (a team lead, which is a step below middle management) claimed peoples jobs weren't threatened if they didn't go in. That's a different claim from "nobody is fired if they leave during this storm."

On Indeed, I see two postal service jobs, a position at Interstate Batteries that requires forklift certification, and two warehouse positions that pay 10 dollars or less.

Again, the job opportunities in Mayfield are not exactly booming, nor are these workers really in a position to just pick and choose another place to work at their leisure. The idea that most people have that freedom is a myth, usually propagated by someone who lives such a privileged life that they're simply unaware that it's a myth.

As far as jobs if you look at jobs within 25 miles or less. You have a fedex location in Paducah, Warehouses in Hickory, Dippin Dots warehouse paying 14.00, The H.T. Hackney Co 12-14, Personnel Placements, LLC 2nd and 3rd shift 12-14, Hamilton Ryker Group, Inc.Warehouse - Shipping & Receiving in Murry, Coca-Cola Bottling Company Consolidated Part Time 1st Shift Warehouse Material Handler 15 but part time, Berry Global, Inc Product Packer - 3rd Shift 15.00, Kroger
Warehousing-Utility [Supply Chain] 2nd Shift Starting Pay $17.54, Alliance Housing, LLC, Warehouse Worker:$11 - $12 Per Hour, etc etc

There was a second page but I think that is enough.

If you were implying that I have some vision because of a privileged life, not sure you saw earlier post but I have been working in a warehouse now for almost a decade overnight shift as both a driver, delivery and supervisor now.

The workers also have a plethora of choices, and the company has mostly lost employees to higher paying mega warehouses that are much closer to the airport. They are also closer to the main cities and have more public transportation options than our location has.

[Glorious Leader]

Nah it was a ridiculous exaggeration having no relevance to the discussion.

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Clearly it did as many others in the thread understood and tried to explain it to you. Its difficult to address something with someone when privilege is a factor.

[Dontrike]

Never said they wouldn't.

on the flip side, shitty people won't lie in order to sue for money?

Here's the problem with this. If they could stay and be safe why wouldn't they? You're assuming they stayed just to potentially put their lives on the line to lie in a situation they had no idea was coming (the building coming down). Why would they stay if they were allowed to leave?

[Toppy]

I like how many people think this is some isolated case. With two different companies I've been expected to brave overly dangerous conditions or lose my job. Once with tornadoes as in this case, and another with ice storms which coated a southern town in thick layers of ice they expected me to drive to work on.

This is the NORM and that the media keeps treating this like the isolated workings of a handful of companies is why its going to keep happening and why I have no faith in the future.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Reminds me of reading that old story about the dangers of meat factories. "Welcome to the Jungle" indeed.

[BlackDruid96]

If you ever come across a comment or article that tries to sow distrust in unionization and collective bargaining, please remember the Mayfield Candle factory management's response to a massive tornado headed right for their workers who wanted to leave and get out of it's path.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...mploy-rcna8581


To make matters worse, these workers make minimum wage.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...256531471.html


Unionize.

Ignoring if this is true or not, isn't it a bad idea to leave a building during a tornado and best to seek shelter?

Is

[Beefhammer]

Ignoring if this is true or not, isn't it a bad idea to leave a building during a tornado and best to seek shelter?

Is

Yes. However they should have been in a shelter in place location not working. Hindsight shows there was an hour before the first sirens and the tornado touchdown. So some people here say they should have been able to go home.