Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[cocomen2]

Once the Light expansion hits you will be sick of yellow villains.

Oh dear that was sarcasm, all this plot villains so boring and only different in color theme...sad af.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Oh dear that was sarcasm, all this plot villains so boring and only different in color theme...sad af.

Oversimplifying villains isn't really an argument.

[Lamoth]

Maw was the best feature of Shadowlands, problem is it was too small and easy to survive, should have been 10 times bigger and way more dangerous, with dynamic 'eye' system based of number of players actively fighting close by, which would drop crazy strong enemies and one shot attacks on large groups of players.

Instead, we got lobby games players ruining any chance for this game to be an MMORPG again with their whinning.

Such a pity.

[draugril]

Maw was the best feature of Shadowlands, problem is it was too small and easy to survive, should have been 10 times bigger and way more dangerous, with dynamic 'eye' system based of number of players actively fighting close by, which would drop crazy strong enemies and one shot attacks on large groups of players.

Instead, we got lobby games players ruining any chance for this game to be an MMORPG again with their whinning.

Such a pity.

I agree with your second sentence, to a degree. Your first run-on sentence is precisely why the Maw was not well-received dialed up to 11: it was a perfect expression of Hell in an MMO setting. The problem is, no matter how technically competent and true to concept the end product is... that's not fun.

[Raetary]

Meanwhile we have the now dead queen never specify if her child was a boy or girl only that she lost track of her child and husband

She did specify.
She specifically mentioned having a daughter in BtS.

[Revamp Man]

She did specify.
She specifically mentioned having a daughter in BtS.

Well damn I must have spaced during that part of the audio book

Scarlet crusade is going to get wrekt by the undead queen, her gryphon riding daughter, and daddy lich king

[Edward Wu]

I am not saying that Shadowlands is a good expansion, because it's not, but shitting on everything Shadowlands related because the expansion is bad is peak-cringe.

People arguing that the Shadowlands zones don't have "soul" and don't feel "wow-like" simply because they are from Shadowlands is hilarious. Blizzard could have put, idek, Grizzle Hills in Shadowlands and everyone would have acted like it's the worst zone imaginable.

Blizzard should stop advertising the game tbh because they are living in everyones head rent-free anyway.

Your first sentence is reasonable and I accept your expanation.

Your next two sentences are ridiculous, and I think you miss the point of people who say that stuff. You have to understand that the core of Warcraft is in Azeroth. Even when we left Azeroth early on back in BC, the designers made sure to take key elements of the WC1-3 and Vanilla WoW story into Outland. Outland felt extremely connected to Azeroth and frankly still does. It feels like a natural extension of it. We could easily go back to Outland in a future expansion.

The same cannot be said of the Shadowlands. They feel distinctly alien in a way that is not relatable with the majority of players and it clearly seems intentional. That's a bad thing. When you move away from your core identity, you will get complaints. The designers don't just get to make whatever they want, they have to stay within the confines of what's already been established.

There are certainly elements of the Shadowlands that are cool, but they make an unnecessary effort to build up a world that is not relatable. Do you remember the beginning of the expansion late in 2020 when people were basically calling the Shadowlands hell? Bastion's story and atmosphere felt very inhuman and cruel, even machine-like. The covenants and zone's characters (aside from the obvious story baits like Uther, Kael etc.) do not have any real connection to Azeroth.

It doesn't help that the Shadowlands story retcons so much shit to hell and back that it is simply unreasonable.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Maw was the best feature of Shadowlands, problem is it was too small and easy to survive, should have been 10 times bigger and way more dangerous, with dynamic 'eye' system based of number of players actively fighting close by, which would drop crazy strong enemies and one shot attacks on large groups of players.

Instead, we got lobby games players ruining any chance for this game to be an MMORPG again with their whinning.

Such a pity.

Less that more having a Dark Souls esquezone is not a good design for the mainstream.

But I mean Blizzard isnt there to write a proper story, is there to make money and if they can keep Sylvanas stans subbed is a win.

Maybe in your mind and those that seem to obsess over danuser sure but thats not why they write the story the way it is.

[Dioporco]

It's still baffling to me that some people screaming "it's not a redemption!" have no idea what redemption is. Redemption doesn't require you to be forgiven by ANYONE. Redemption is largely internal. Redemption consists of remorse + atonement. It's very simple to grasp. And as far as that goes, Sylvanas is halfway there already. What will become of her atonement, we're yet to see.

Still not a redemption.


Is like eating shit and telling is waygu, no chief is still shit.


But I mean Blizzard isnt there to write a proper story, is there to make money and if they can keep Sylvanas stans subbed is a win.

[draugril]

Less that more having a Dark Souls esquezone is not a good design for the mainstream.

Counterpoint: the Maw would have been received incredibly well if it wasn't tied into player power and was its own thing entirely.

[Dioporco]

Not interesting? The fuck? You do realize this could be a perfect tie in expansion to the more Cosmic side of things yeah? Dragons + Civil War on Azeroth with invasion of SW being the prepatch or summ? Fuck yeah. Also Helya ain’t dead and I’m sure the forces of Zovaal would have contingencies in case Zovaal’s attempt at destroying the Cosmos + the chart failed.

Wow that sounds terrible

[Revamp Man]

Not interesting? The fuck? You do realize this could be a perfect tie in expansion to the more Cosmic side of things yeah? Dragons + Civil War on Azeroth with invasion of SW being the prepatch or summ? Fuck yeah. Also Helya ain’t dead and I’m sure the forces of Zovaal would have contingencies in case Zovaal’s attempt at destroying the Cosmos + the chart failed.

If the jailer is gone and the rift is still there then what is stopping an evil dragon from resurrecting

[Ersula]

If the jailer is gone and the rift is still there then what is stopping an evil dragon from resurrecting

The Rift is closed when the Helm is reforged.

- - - Updated - - -

But I mean Blizzard isnt there to write a proper story, is there to make money and if they can keep Sylvanas stans subbed is a win.

Sylvanas stans don't like this story either. They effectively told us we never met "the real" Sylvanas. She assimilated with a character that was in Warcraft 3 for half of one mission. Both the game & story are borked:

Jaina: Now wants peace after BFA; this characterization is initiated by nothing.

Thrall: Isn't even a Shaman anymore, is now a warrior; this characterization is initiated by nothing.

Anduin: Is no longer a Pacifist priest, became a paladin or plate-wearing priest whatever that means; this characterization is initiated by nothing.

Its nice to see these characters grow but we never see it happen. And after them focusing on Sylvanas we can see they're bad at it.

[draugril]

Sylvanas stans don't like this story either. They effectively told us we never met "the real" Sylvanas. She assimilated with a character that was in Warcraft 3 for half of one mission.

Aye - I know a lot of OG Sylvanas fans. None of them play any longer, but when she comes up during conversation, the character I tell them about is unrecognizable to them. Seeing her like this certainly isn't a draw back. It's to the point that I legitimately wonder who the target audience is for the current narrative, aside from Blizzard employees themselves.

Edit: Also, this moment was the last time I found her interesting or engaging:



She was stunned. She stood there, alone, with no audience, pondering what had just happened. In retrospect, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. But at the time... I felt for her. Fiercely independent, ruthless, self-serving... suddenly asked to assume responsibility over all the races of the Horde. She didn't reject it. She didn't embrace it. She simply stood there and reassessed her entire worldview. I loved it.

[Ersula]

Well we do still have the big reveal about who is the true heir to the menethil throne

Who cares? Why do they keep acting like this matters? No ones uses monarchy as their basis for leadership in this game. Varian & Anduin were seated king of the Alliance for less than half of this game's lifetime & Gilneas is the only other nation that had a king.

Edit: I forgot about Dwarves. But that doesn't say much because they've never mattered.

[Makabreska]

But I mean Blizzard isnt there to write a proper story, is there to make money and if they can keep Sylvanas stans subbed is a win.

You really think Blizz writes the story to cater to them, or to anyone else? Not to mention sylvibois went almost extinct since BfA bbq party.

[draugril]

Who cares? Why do they keep acting like this matters? No ones uses monarchy as their basis for leadership in this game. Varian & Anduin were seated king of the Alliance for less than half of this game's lifetime & Gilneas is the only other nation that had a king.

And it's not like legitimate heritage every matters, in reality or fiction, when kingdoms are in a tumultuous succession crisis...

[Ersula]

Counterpoint: the Maw would have been received incredibly well if it wasn't tied into player power and was its own thing entirely.

Or if they actually developed it enough to be fun. Compare the maw & torghast to Island Expeditions: the sheer number of things to encounter is staggeringly small compared to the previous expansion's gimmick.

[Hitei]

She was stunned. She stood there, alone, with no audience, pondering what had just happened. In retrospect, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. But at the time... I felt for her. Fiercely independent, ruthless, self-serving... suddenly asked to assume responsibility over all the races of the Horde. She didn't reject it. She didn't embrace it. She simply stood there and reassessed her entire worldview. I loved it.

So you don't like her absolutely identical current iteration, because you mistakenly thought her old iteration gave a shit about the Horde? Even though that conclusion had nothing to do with her previous characterization of constantly using people as tools, or her continuing that exact characterization right afterwards?

Rather than "the last time [you] found her interesting or engaging" it seems more like that would be the only time you found her interesting or engaging. What exactly was interesting or engaging about her prior to that point, where she was acting exactly like she did afterwards?

[Makorus]

Aye - I know a lot of OG Sylvanas fans. None of them play any longer, but when she comes up during conversation, the character I tell them about is unrecognizable to them. Seeing her like this certainly isn't a draw back. It's to the point that I legitimately wonder who the target audience is for the current narrative, aside from Blizzard employees themselves.

Edit: Also, this moment was the last time I found her interesting or engaging:



She was stunned. She stood there, alone, with no audience, pondering what had just happened. In retrospect, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. But at the time... I felt for her. Fiercely independent, ruthless, self-serving... suddenly asked to assume responsibility over all the races of the Horde. She didn't reject it. She didn't embrace it. She simply stood there and reassessed her entire worldview. I loved it.

That cinematic was great, and really made me excited about what was gonna happen to Vol'jin (because obviously his story wasn't over at that point, plus there were the datamined and scrapped lines about him visiting an old friend (presumably) Bwonsamdi) for help which I always felt was a big hint at what happens to him after his "death") and Sylvanas.

I love the cinematography of her just standing there while everyone enters and leaves. Really sad they had to turn Sylvanas into a villain, because her being thrust into a position she didn't want, like Garrosh, but choosing a different path would have been great.