I tell you why WoW and MMORPGs are struggling in this day and age...

[Chadow]

-online communication is no longer a novelty
-you only see another player as a mean to your ends
-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

Edit: Just to clarify

Conquering and winning is always fun.
We earn the girlfriend, we win at our job, we conquer arena rating, we win gear etc

But what i mean is that nowadays we may have lost touch with other players and the simple joy of communicating with them and just having "stupid fun".

[KOUNTERPARTS]

-online communication is no longer a novelty

I don't think you are using the word "novelty" in the way you think you are here.

-you only see another player as a mean to your ends

And who are you referring to here? Who is the "you" in this point? Do you mean... yourself? Are you admitting to using other people as a means to and end and don't care about what happens after? This oddly specific way of accusing/generalizing an entire kind of people implies more about your experience, since you offer no details about it.


Because in WoW specifically, you often find other people and work together towards a common goal. As much as people choose to play the game in a solo capacity and avoid all interaction, you also have a shit ton of people who don't choose to play solo.
Sometimes with quests, every time for dungeons and raids, and a lot of the times for fun things like older content achievement runs or mount/pet/item farming, as an example.

You could say... everybody is using each other as a means to their own ends. That's the point. What is yours?

-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

Details please. This is such a vague fucking statement, I can't help but wonder what in-game experience you just had where somebody completely ignored you and gave you the cold shoulder... to incite you to post this nonsense.

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

You probably should stop playing video games. If you had not noticed, companies who create video games typically do to make a profit. There are a multitude of different kinds of people who play video games, and a metric fuck-ton of different kinds of people any particular game and it isn't smart to generalize an entire genre of video games as failing, with your reason being a vague and also generalized point.


You seem to reveal yourself as a specific kind of players yourself: the whiner. I'm sorry you got kicked from whatever group you were just in, or couldn't find any help to do whatever thing you were just trying to do.

[Chadow]

@KOUNTERPARTS

How am i a whiner if im "complaining" (if it even is complaining) about society and playerbase in general

Try this
Go to your server and speak in trade chat.
Ask to go on a stupid adventure in the world without being majorly rewarded for it

See how much people follow you.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

@KOUNTERPARTS

How am i a whiner if im "complaining" (if it even is complaining) about society and playerbase in general

Try this
Go to your server and speak in trade chat.
Ask to go on a stupid adventure in the world without being majorly rewarded for it

See how much people follow you.

Because, you are being vague and not offering details to WHY. You make broad generalizations with no context. You are complaining that people won't do things unless rewarded in a game that incentives REWARDS by doing things TOGETHER.


I talk on my server regularly, because I play on a high population server. It's very easy to communicate in trade chat and even in the world.


You say people "won't follow you" on an adventure what does that even fucking mean?

"LET'S GO EXPLORE STRANGLETHORN VALE!" is that you mean?


"LET'S GO HAVE A DANCE CONTEST OUTSIDE STORMWIND GATES!" is that what you mean?


"LET'S GO SIT ON A MOUNTAIN OVERLOOKING OGRIMMAR AND TALK ABOUT THE EFFECT OF POVERTY IN 3rd WORLD NATIONS" is that what you mean?



"LET'S GO BATTLE PET HUNTING" you can make a group in the Group Finder for that. Oh wait-- that rewards something.


So what do you even mean "go on a stupid adventure with no rewards" if you don't offer DETAILS. You are being vague. Purposely vague.



What server do you play on? Do you even play WoW? If not then I don't see why you are even responding.


Because, once again, your lack of details in your OP implies one thing: you want to complain over generalizations.

[Drindorai]

Other MMOs besides WoW are doing great, some better than ever.

WoW's problems are all so numerous and inter-connected that there's no one thing you can point to as if to pluck out, fix, and then slot back in and then solve everything.

[Hctaz]

I don't think you are using the word "novelty" in the way you think you are here.

???
Novelty: the quality of being new, original, or unusual.

It's being used exactly the way OP intended. Online communication is no longer new, original, or unusual. One of the biggest reasons why MMOs were so popular when they were first coming out was because the concept of an online chatroom was still a novelty. Having an online chatroom where you could INTERACT in a virtual world with other players was absolutely mind-blowing. There were other games that did have online components to them, but nothing like an MMO.

[WowIsDead64]

-online communication is no longer a novelty
-you only see another player as a mean to your ends
-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

Many things have changed. For example back in old times it was ok to just "hang" in a game and it was considered to be "content".

[Caerrona]

-online communication is no longer a novelty
-you only see another player as a mean to your ends
-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

First off, go back to your hole shadoowpunk

Second, all of that was a thing since mmorpgs were invented. You didn't talk to people outside your friends other then to help them get your quests done or get that sweet loot.

[Soon-TM]

Um... WoW may be struggling, but other MMOs are doing just fine (ESO, GW2) or even better, case in point FF14. There are also a couple of Eastern MMOs that seem to be doing reasonably well.

[Grax]

First off, go back to your hole shadoowpunk

Second, all of that was a thing since mmorpgs were invented. You didn't talk to people outside your friends other then to help them get your quests done or get that sweet loot.

And that's where you'd be wrong, grasshopper. In Dark Age of Camelot, it was imperative to talk to other people outside your friends and even guild. Relic raids and other PvP events would be hundreds strong, and most end-game gear required three different high-level professions to create - spellcrafting (to add stats), alchemy (for procs), and the leatherworker/blacksmith/tailor to craft the armor itself. The game went on to change, but this was the best iteration. This was in 2001. You were reliant on other players for more than just a slot in a five-man group.

[Vampyrr]

-online communication is no longer a novelty
-you only see another player as a mean to your ends
-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

Its more these games are designed to be your primary game spending most of your time in them. However there are too many games out there for this method to work well anymore.

[cparle87]

-online communication is no longer a novelty
-you only see another player as a mean to your ends
-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

I agreed wholeheartedly. Poster #6 took the words right out of my mouth. I actually got castigated in a thread one time for being upset that another player who was killing an elite with me just sat back and let me die before finishing off the elite, collecting his loot, and walking off. When I passed him on my way back to my body and asked him why he didn't help me I got crucified in the thread for being "passive-aggressive" and called a fool for expecting that he had any obligation to help me even though we had a shared goal. I brought up the same point that in the early days of online gaming he would've wanted to group with and help me and maybe we could've become friends and done more stuff together cause online play was a novel idea and people laughed at me there too.

[OrangeJuice]

-online communication is no longer a novelty
-you only see another player as a mean to your ends
-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

You're not wrong but neither is anyone else. The underlying issue in everyones complaints is the lack of interaction between devs and players. Devs don't listen, for one reason or another, and their games just suffer ultimately from neglect. The neglect of every aspect of the game is what causes players to pick apart what they feel is most detrimental, which is usually determined, by them, based on what aspect of the game they play most. You're not the first and wont be the last, even though you're not wrong, the devs just simply wont listen to you or the next person, just as they haven't lisened to the countless others before you.

[Segus1992]

-online communication is no longer a novelty
-you only see another player as a mean to your ends
-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

The only time this was not the case was early (like really early) Vanilla. The game is vastly better since then in almost all aspects, if you don't see that it's because you're wearing rose tinted glasses.

[MoanaLisa]

Its more these games are designed to be your primary game spending most of your time in them. However there are too many games out there for this method to work well anymore.

This gets at a truth. Gaming has changed: there's much greater competition and a wide array of platforms to play on. I disagree that MMO's aren't doing well. Most of them (including WoW) are doing just fine as business propositions. When a AAA MMO opens up most of its content free and clear with no subscription, nothing to purchase, and the content is of a reasonable quality, then it's going to do fine, look like it's doing huge business and get a lot of goodwill.

Nonetheless, this is more a matter of competitiveness and creating or retaining interest. It's likely as the move to mobile gaming gets stronger over time that the trend will continue; audiences diminished somewhat but still enough to be a viable, profitable business. PC games will need to step it up over the long run. It's always been a little crazy to limit yourself to a single game or game studio. Those days are mostly over. Players need to step it up as well and not mourn for the past.

[Bramickias]

Except that MMORPGs aren't struggling.

Theres millions of people playing WoW, FF14, ESO, GW2, Runescape 3+OSRS, SWTOR, BDO .... the list goes on and im probably forgetting a ton of MMos doing good.
New Worlds still has hundreds of thousands players, even with how terribly buggy and imbalanced their game has been since launch.
If Riot Games MMO about LoL if just good, it risks breaking the internet when it releases.
FF14 stopped the creation of any new account because their servers cant handle their popularity right now.

MMOs are doing better then ever.

I'm, not even touching the Korean and Chinese MMOs market, which is millions of players.

[Swnem]

Umm... sure, but the game design and support influence how much that is true. FF doesn't seem to be suffering from anything but success atm.

[regardoz]

-online communication is no longer a novelty
-you only see another player as a mean to your ends
-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

You really didnot catch the real reason, however to easily to fix communication:
1- bring back guild perks and cataclysm system, connect it to rewards in pvp and pve. Solved

2- party auto connect to voice chat just like overwatch or shooting games. This will slowly encourage people to communicate in pvp and pve

Now to the real reason struggling is only one thing. We are in the year 2021 soon 2022. People bo longer want to have nonsense grinding all day. They want something that time efficient. Like look at pvp in wow now its like you have to play at least straught 5 hours to keep up and you have to do all shits just to play pvp. Thats bad. Also dungeons and raid requires so much things outside your skill and gear

[cozzri]

@KOUNTERPARTS

How am i a whiner if im "complaining" (if it even is complaining) about society and playerbase in general

Try this
Go to your server and speak in trade chat.
Ask to go on a stupid adventure in the world without being majorly rewarded for it

See how much people follow you.

I suggest maybe playing on a RP server; in any game really, just doesn’t have to be WoW specifically. Create your own character, write up a backstory and develop the personality.

The things and people you are looking for are there, you just need to put in the time and effort of becoming part of that group. Plenty of RP opportunities to join if you bother trying.

[munkeyinorbit]

@KOUNTERPARTS

How am i a whiner if im "complaining" (if it even is complaining) about society and playerbase in general

Try this
Go to your server and speak in trade chat.
Ask to go on a stupid adventure in the world without being majorly rewarded for it

See how much people follow you.

2 hrs ago I joined a group of people to do the skettis summon quests. You need 40 scrolls from invisible mobs to summon the mobs. No one had the potion to see the invisible mobs. I happened to have 67 of the mats to get a potion. Each potion costing 6. I bought 8 potions, 2 for each of us and spent 30 mins destroying the invisible mobs so we could get the required 40 scrolls. We then handed the quest in and picked up the last one to kill Terokk. Once that was done we handed in. BUT. The tank fucked up and didn't actually pick up the quest. So we all waited around for the 15 min respawn. 4 strangers doing a group quest that drops terrible loot and little gold. 2 of us were already exalted. There had been some basic communication to coordinate where dead bodies were and where to go etc. but we weren't exactly becoming friends. But I asked one of them to do a ready check if the mob spawned again while was afk a bit. Eventually he spawned again, we killed it for the second time and tank got to complete a meaningless quest.

I call bullshit on what you say OP. Someone called adventurers to a meaningless adventure. It took more resources and time then we all thought it would take and there was no meaningful rewards. Someone even fucked up and made the experience worst for every one but communication was helpful and there was no rage. Every point you claim has shown to be your projection. The problem is you.