I tell you why WoW and MMORPGs are struggling in this day and age...

[Johnjohn]

You want WildStar. That doesn't exist anymore because what you want is in no way a feasible business model in 2021 but you can check out something called Nexus Forever that's aiming to provide a similar experience.

How you came to that conclusion I have no idea. Wildstar was made by hardcore gamers for hardcore gamers. It is the antithesis of what I want in a mmorpg. I want hardcore losers to be ignored when it comes to mmorpgs, not listened to.

I want more of an elder scrolls online, but without the single player story and more of a reliance of players on each other for grouping/adventuring. I want raiding and hardcore gameplay to be less than 1% of my game.

[Relapses]

How you came to that conclusion I have no idea. Wildstar was made by hardcore gamers for hardcore gamers. It is the antithesis of what I want in a mmorpg. I want hardcore losers to be ignored when it comes to mmorpgs, not listened to.

I want more of an elder scrolls online, but without the single player story and more of a reliance of players on each other for grouping/adventuring. I want raiding and hardcore gameplay to be less than 1% of my game.

Oh so you just want it to be 1999 again. Well, have fun with that I guess.

[Johnjohn]

Oh so you just want it to be 1999 again. Well, have fun with that I guess.

Jesus Christ people like you are painful. I am not looking for your advice, I am stating my opinion. Accept that people have different opinions than you and stop trying to tell them how to think.

All I am saying is the genre could have taken a very different road and still been successful imo.

Now go away.

[Selah]

I haven’t made any claims of quality or rather the game is fine or not.

I could reply to the other posts, but at this point its pretty obvious to me that we're just chasing our tail here. Stuck in the same couple of arguments. So, in hopes of breaking away from that (and hopefully something more productive) I'll focus on this statement here.

What was the point of your initial quote/post stating that they're making a profit? I never argued that point and even acknowledged it. I have been largely talking about the health and quality of the game. Do you believe the game is in a good state?

[NineSpine]

And for the not having to stop sales.

FFXIV cheaped out and didn’t get a surplus of severs which put them selfs in a bad spot, blizzard in the past already knew that was a stupid thing to do so made sure they always had enough servers which is why they never had to do the same (outside of Mabye 2004) even though they had much better growth.

Because blizzard didn’t cheap out they have severs for over 12m players they don’t need to stop sales as they can Handle far far more.

Factually wrong. There is a chip shortage. Square offered to pay double for servers and nobody would sell them to them. They dismantled internal administrative machines to build servers. If something isn't for sale, you can't buy it.

Also, maybe you weren't around when Classic launched, but the servers had 20k+ queues for weeks.

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Oh so you just want it to be 1999 again. Well, have fun with that I guess.

Is it working out really well for WoW to make hardcore gameplay the devs focus when the vast majority of players never engage in it?

[Relapses]

Jesus Christ people like you are painful. I am not looking for your advice, I am stating my opinion. Accept that people have different opinions than you and stop trying to tell them how to think.

All I am saying is the genre could have taken a very different road and still been successful imo.

Now go away.

Where did I tell you how to think? Why are you so defensive? Calm down my dude. I just gave you a suggestion for something I thought might interest you, no need to get your jimmies rustled. In the meantime, I'll pour one out for you while listening to Spice Girls in the spirit of the great year 1999.

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Is it working out really well for WoW to make hardcore gameplay the devs focus when the vast majority of players never engage in it?

I don't think hardcore activities are the focus of WoW at all. I do think there are ways they can make the casual experience a bit more accessible but I disagree with a lot of the suggestions I see provided on this forum. The Cypher system in 9.2 looks pretty interesting and I'm curious to see how they iterate on it moving into 10.0.

[NineSpine]

Where did I tell you how to think? Why are you so defensive? Calm down my dude. I just gave you a suggestion for something I thought might interest you, no need to get your jimmies rustled. In the meantime, I'll pour one out for you while listening to Spice Girls in the spirit of the great year 1999.

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I don't think hardcore activities are the focus of WoW at all. I do think there are ways they can make the casual experience a bit more accessible but I disagree with a lot of the suggestions I see provided on this forum. The Cypher system in 9.2 looks pretty interesting and I'm curious to see how they iterate on it moving into 10.0.

WoW doesn't even have an endgame for anyone that doesn't want to Mythic+, Heroic-Mythic Raid or do Rated PvP. It's painfully obvious that they create the hardcore experience and then work backwards from there, especially in raid encounter design where the lower difficulties feel incomplete and like mechanics are missing.

The cypher system is just another zone-specific progression system like they have done numerous times before. It's nothing new.

[Relapses]

WoW doesn't even have an endgame for anyone that doesn't want to Mythic+, Heroic-Mythic Raid or do Rated PvP. It's painfully obvious that they create the hardcore experience and then work backwards from there, especially in raid encounter design where the lower difficulties feel incomplete and like mechanics are missing.

The cypher system is just another zone-specific progression system like they have done numerous times before. It's nothing new.

Cypher is a bit different in that it's the first time they've made a progression system that is only for world content. It's completely removed from M+, rated PvP and raiding. I don't know if it's exactly the right solution as it's still early in development but it seems directed at the exact demographic you mentioned.

[rrayy]

Well, you're welcome to actually engage with my arguments instead of doing to me what you claim I've been doing to others.

You don't have an argument as projecting ones opinion as fact is not an argument. I already gave reasons why it is fine. All you have said is 'The game is dying because I say so and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong". I also have not denigrated you as I have not called you any names. You insulted me with the "copium" BS. Since you are not actually interested in a debate and merely want to drown anyone who disagrees with you out. We are done.

[NineSpine]

Cypher is a bit different in that it's the first time they've made a progression system that is only for world content. It's completely removed from M+, rated PvP and raiding. I don't know if it's exactly the right solution as it's still early in development but it seems directed at the exact demographic you mentioned.

Argus had a world-only progression system for the new zones. The Maw did too. Mechagon did too. This isn't new at all. It's a new flavor of something that's been done multiple times before. Also, it isn't what I am asking for at all. This whole idea you have that wanting gear and power progression is something only hardcore players should want, and everyone else should be happy with whatever this months daily grind is, that is the problem.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Factually wrong. There is a chip shortage. Square offered to pay double for servers and nobody would sell them to them. They dismantled internal administrative machines to build servers. If something isn't for sale, you can't buy it.

Also, maybe you weren't around when Classic launched, but the servers had 20k+ queues for weeks.

I mean no, you can build a surplus before you desperately need them square choose not to and ended up in this situation.

as for classic I played the second week and while there was some que's they didn't last for weeks on any thing other then the most popular servers.

[cparle87]

those 'aliens' came by dark portal not spaceships and were under control of demons, this is turning demons to aliens since they don't belong to earth, which is technically true but far from scifi alien name hints
wow 'scifi' is alien concept that only emerged from tbc and was cruelly (but deserved) hated by space goats using spaceships, and this 'meme' is real regardless u like it or not

Never said memes aren't real. Doesn't mean they're not illogical and mockworthy.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I could reply to the other posts, but at this point its pretty obvious to me that we're just chasing our tail here. Stuck in the same couple of arguments. So, in hopes of breaking away from that (and hopefully something more productive) I'll focus on this statement here.

What was the point of your initial quote/post stating that they're making a profit? I never argued that point and even acknowledged it. I have been largely talking about the health and quality of the game.

in your post to Moana you asked how much money they were losing so I provided the info.

And how much money is it now losing with the mass exodus? I'm curious what those numbers are like, do you have those by chance?

Do you believe the game is in a good state?

Shadowlands? nan I've have pretty much nothing good to say about it other then then I think some of the classes are fun and alot bad to say about it.

[NineSpine]

I mean no, you can build a surplus because you desperately need them square choose not to and ended up in this situation.

as for classic I played the second week and while there was some que's they didn't last for weeks on any thing other then the most popular servers.

The chip shortage has been going on for a year and a half. The idea that Square was supposed to predict the chip shortage AND a massive jump in players a full two years before it happened is deranged.

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as for classic I played the second week and while there was some que's they didn't last for weeks on any thing other then the most popular servers.

In other words, the busy servers have queues for weeks.

[Relapses]

Argus had a world-only progression system for the new zones. The Maw did too. Mechagon did too. This isn't new at all. It's a new flavor of something that's been done multiple times before. Also, it isn't what I am asking for at all. This whole idea you have that wanting gear and power progression is something only hardcore players should want, and everyone else should be happy with whatever this months daily grind is, that is the problem.

You get player power from the Cypher system though. It is only usable in world content, however. That is different than the other systems you mentioned. I know what you want -- you want the game to be WotLK again. But that's unlikely to happen so something experimental like the Cypher system is the closest thing to allowing players to get player power without the people who do other content feeling obligated to do that content as well.

[NineSpine]

You get player power from the Cypher system though. It is only usable in world content, however. That is different than the other systems you mentioned. I know what you want -- you want the game to be WotLK again. But that's unlikely to happen so something experimental like the Cypher system is the closest thing to allowing players to get player power without the people who do other content feeling obligated to do that content as well.

The fact that Blizzard is seemingly incapable at accomplishing what numerous other games have already done, including WoW in the past, is not an excuse. You are just telling me that they are incompetent. That's not a good reason for poor design.

[rrayy]

This guy makes a thread about MMOs struggling, when FFXIV is at an all time high that's been going for half a year, New World *did* see big numbers until people realized it was shit, and Elder Scrolls - from my understanding - is doing great as well. Literally, it's WoW and now New World that are shitting the bed. MMOs are arguably in a resurgence.

WOW is as profitable as ever yet it is "shitting the bed" I think standards are a little too high here.

[NineSpine]

WOW is as profitable as ever yet it is "shitting the bed" I think standards are a little too high here.

You have no idea if that is true.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The chip shortage has been going on for a year and a half. The idea that Square was supposed to predict the chip shortage AND a massive jump in players a full two years before it happened is deranged.

id Think if your planning your biggest expan that's suppose to wrap up your realunch you'd expect a huge jump and want to pay extra just in case to make sure you had space, but hey I'm not cheap.

In other words, the busy servers have queues for weeks.

yes the busy server's had que's but they never needed to stop character's or the such as there was still plenty of space on others.

[NineSpine]

id Think if your planning your biggest expan that's suppose to wrap up your realunch you'd expect huge a huge jump and want to pay extra just in case to make sure you had space, but hey I'm not cheap.

There is absolutely no way they could predict this large an influx of players TWO YEARS AGO. It's delusional to insist otherwise, and the idea that they would also have the psychics on staff to predict the chip shortage is crazy. Maybe they also could have warned us covid was coming with this magic powers you insist they should have.

yes the busy server's had que's but they never needed to stop character's or the such as there was still plenty of space on others.

There isn't even a queue right now in FF. You are acting like there are 6 hour queues all the time.