I tell you why WoW and MMORPGs are struggling in this day and age...

[Lolites]

Yes, Blizzard always gives everyone what they want even when they said it’s a bad idea after the first content patch of an expansion.

after first patch? you must mean BEFORE LAST patch, bcs thats what 9.1.5 is

and yes, they do that quite often, in both bfa and legion pretty much all restrictions they put in with base game were lifted later during the expansions (and before then too, although not so often), some of them sooner, and sure, some of them later in the expansion, BUT! what you seem to "forget" (or ignore as it doesnt push your predetermined opinion) is theres not much SL content left, as far as we know 9.2 and thats it, so when should they lift those restrictions, in next expansion? ofc they do it now, before the last major patch...

remember corruptions vendor for example? didnt even take another patch, they did it in the same patch corruptions were added...
so trying to pretend they dont do that is either complete ignorance or outright lying

[Kithelle]

It's because there is little to no innovation...nothing really new. Companies don't want to put the kinda money in requires into them....there has been very little added to the genre since the likes of fully voiced characters and action combat. All the strongest contenders have been known franchises, been around for a long time, and often are both.

[potis]

First off who said love it or leave it ? It's just that players are talking about having quit a game and want others to quit also to validate their choice.

This basically summarizes 99% of the posts in mmo-champion and the circlejerk of this anti-WoW movement.

You want validation that you did the right thing, when you should just unsub and come back and play the stuff you want to play if you are so against the core part of the game, aka raiding.

[Skylarking]

Cypher is a bit different in that it's the first time they've made a progression system that is only for world content. It's completely removed from M+, rated PvP and raiding. I don't know if it's exactly the right solution as it's still early in development but it seems directed at the exact demographic you mentioned.

Something tells me they will find a way to fuck it up but I will reserve judgement until I see it fully in action.

[cparle87]

First off. As I mentioned otherwise in the post you quoted me on. Blizz has always established WoW as a Subscription model. Which was how games were as a whole back in the day. So in earlier times when they experimented with cash shop appearance items like the helms in question, which incidentially came about around the time of MoP,. They initially met with backlash because the sub model of games was supposed to be you pay a fee each month to get to play a game where you have the chance to obtain any and all item within it from said game alone. So your sub was supposed to be all-inclusive. Such was the feeling of most players. However. As times go on prices go up as well in almost everything in life. However the sub fee has always been the same.
So how else is a company to also make more money ? When sub numbers aren't growing as much as they used to. Hence the introduction of cash-shop items.
Which I have no problem with. So long as the in-game items are of similar quality and attainability. But like anything else in life if you want custom stuff you have to pay more. So if you buy an expensive car but want the optional leather seats, you have to pay more. If you want the fancy wheels then that too is more. Just because you paied top dollar for that nice car or truck doesn't mean it should include every option there is. Games are hobbies and like any hobby if you want premium optional items they should cost additional.

That is 100% pure opinion, headcanon, whatever you want to call it. You pay your sub to access the game servers as is. The end. Full stop. You have no expectations, rights, or entitlements beyond those. There's a reason "Ghostcrawler promised me a pony" is a meme. Nowhere anywhere does it say that you're entitled to be able to earn everything in the game simply because you're subbed to it.

- - - Updated - - -

Something tells me they will find a way to fuck it up but I will reserve judgement until I see it fully in action.

I saw posts on the day the Cypher was announced declaring it "dead in the water" "meaningless" "not true content" "insert other negative thing here" because it didn't contribute to player power in keys and raids.

[NineSpine]

This basically summarizes 99% of the posts in mmo-champion and the circlejerk of this anti-WoW movement.

You want validation that you did the right thing, when you should just unsub and come back and play the stuff you want to play if you are so against the core part of the game, aka raiding.

They removed the game a lot of us used to play and would like to still play.

[TheRevenantHero]

I truly don't understand this thread's title. Just because WoW is floundering hardcore doesn't mean all MMOs have issue. FFXIV has PLENTY of players. GW2 also has a lot of people playing. For fuck's sake even SWTOR is seeing a resurgence. MMOs aren't struggling. WoW is struggling.

[Zora-Prime]

I truly don't understand this thread's title. Just because WoW is floundering hardcore doesn't mean all MMOs have issue. FFXIV has PLENTY of players. GW2 also has a lot of people playing. For fuck's sake even SWTOR is seeing a resurgence. MMOs aren't struggling. WoW is struggling.

I truly don't understand these posts?
WoW is still one of, if not the top MMO. Sorry, I know me saying this has made your cute little bottom clench.

The only struggle is facing is compared to it's own past success.

If you're gonna sit here, with a straight face, and tell me GW2 is fine, and that WoW is struggling... I'm just going to assume that you're bat shit crazy or a facebook mom peddling your bullshit.

[Altariaz]

-online communication is no longer a novelty
-you only see another player as a mean to your ends
-communication with another player is considered meaningless if not rewarded

We live in the age of "profit" where everything is meaningless unless you can profit from it. Even people.

Edit: Just to clarify

Conquering and winning is always fun.
We earn the girlfriend, we win at our job, we conquer arena rating, we win gear etc

But what i mean is that nowadays we may have lost touch with other players and the simple joy of communicating with them and just having "stupid fun".

No, not really.

[LTN]

More diverse market and people have less patience for time grinds.

[NineSpine]

I truly don't understand these posts?
WoW is still one of, if not the top MMO. Sorry, I know me saying this has made your cute little bottom clench.

The only struggle is facing is compared to it's own past success.

If you're gonna sit here, with a straight face, and tell me GW2 is fine, and that WoW is struggling... I'm just going to assume that you're bat shit crazy or a facebook mom peddling your bullshit.

Just because you are the biggest kid in school doesn't mean that you are healthy even when you are bleeding out.

[Zora-Prime]

Just because you are the biggest kid in school doesn't mean that you are healthy even when you are bleeding out.

Still can take your lunch money.

[NineSpine]

Still can take your lunch money.

He's on the ground, bleeding. FF14 already took his lunch money.

And honestly, we don't even know what WoW's subscriber numbers or even profits look like compared to other MMOs right now. What we have to go on is growth, retention, and reputation, and we can say that on all three of those fronts WoW is in the toilet.

[Khaza-R]

-online communication is no longer a novelty

This is really the only part of your post I can agree with. MMOs were new and exciting for a generation who grew up playing RPGs offline and finally got to experience them with others.

There's a reason why WoW and most every other MMO experienced a surge and subsequent decline in players around the same time and it coincides with when most Americans were getting access to the high speed internet for the first time.

The novelty has worn off for many gamers out there and MMOs will never be that popular again because it was a unique window in time. People need to stop comparing the success of modern and future MMOs to the golden age. Because barring some new technological innovations the genre will never see that kind of popularity again.

[Zora-Prime]

He's on the ground, bleeding. FF14 already took his lunch money.

And honestly, we don't even know what WoW's subscriber numbers or even profits look like compared to other MMOs right now. What we have to go on is growth, retention, and reputation, and we can say that on all three of those fronts WoW is in the toilet.

I knew u were a FFXIV cultist lol.

Like a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses knocking the door of every post in the WoW section
"Do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior Yoshi P?"

Played it till 80 and I'm flabbergasted that it's even considered a game with gameplay that shitty.
If looking to get back into that fruit cake of an MMO I'll hit you up.

All hail the biggest MMO in the world: 10k viewers on twitch compared to WoW 30k+
"but spoilers, waaaa"... sure buddy its cuz spoilers lol.

[NineSpine]

I knew u were a FFXIV cultist lol.

Like a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses knocking the door of every post in the WoW section
"Do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior Yoshi P?"

Played it till 80 and I'm flabbergasted that it's even considered a game with gameplay that shitty.
If looking to get back into that fruit cake of an MMO I'll hit you up.

All hail the biggest MMO in the world: 10k viewers on twitch compared to WoW 30k+
"but spoilers, waaaa"... sure buddy its cuz spoilers lol.

The fact that you throw this little fit the second FF14 is mentioned and go on a little tirade tells me that I am not the cultist here.

I don't care about your personal opinion of any game, burger chain, movie series, or anything else you could possibly have a personal opinion on. You are just telling me that for you this is about your personal emotions and feelings and not about reality. I don't like McDonalds, but my dislike doesn't magically transform the universe into one where McDonalds is a failure. I understand this because I am not a child.

The best selling game this moth was Halo Infinite. It has 6000 viewers on Twitch. Something tells me that using Twitch to gauge how successful a game is, is clown shit. Let's take a look at massive, cultural phenomenon breakout hit of 2021 Valheim: 600 viewers.

[Candlewick]

Gaming changes and evolves like all medians. I think wows insistence on boring players through grinds and easy content is now no longer viable in the market. If I tell a friend a really good game has a boring 2 hour tutorial its hard to sell them on the game... if I explained wows leveling, conduit, Lego, renowned systems I couldn't pay them to play it.

[NineSpine]

Gaming changes and evolves like all medians. I think wows insistence on boring players through grinds and easy content is now no longer viable in the market. If I tell a friend a really good game has a boring 2 hour tutorial its hard to sell them on the game... if I explained wows leveling, conduit, Lego, renowned systems I couldn't pay them to play it.

If that was the case, why is FF14 having a giant surge in players when it is harder to get into than WoW? These are all excuses for a very simple problem: WoW is a bad game right now.

[Zora-Prime]

The fact that you throw this little fit the second FF14 is mentioned and go on a little tirade tells me that I am not the cultist here.

I don't care about your personal opinion of any game, burger chain, movie series, or anything else you could possibly have a personal opinion on. You are just telling me that for you this is about your personal emotions and feelings and not about reality. I don't like McDonalds, but my dislike doesn't magically transform the universe into one where McDonalds is a failure. I understand this because I am not a child.

The best selling game this moth was Halo Infinite. It has 6000 viewers on Twitch. Something tells me that using Twitch to gauge how successful a game is, is clown shit. Let's take a look at massive, cultural phenomenon breakout hit of 2021 Valheim: 600 viewers.

Of course viewers on twitch can be used to gauge interest in a game.
Valheim has peaked at over 200k at one point. The game is now solved and therefore interest is lower.

FF14 has JUST released an expansion and nobody cares? not buying it.

Also, yes you are a cultist, just having a brief look at you posts on this forum just confirmed everything I mentioned above.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I truly don't understand this thread's title. Just because WoW is floundering hardcore doesn't mean all MMOs have issue. FFXIV has PLENTY of players. GW2 also has a lot of people playing. For fuck's sake even SWTOR is seeing a resurgence. MMOs aren't struggling. WoW is struggling.

MMOs are a rather small niche in the gaming market and we kinda have the problem that its popularity is waning since younger people have barely any interest in it.