Football Season 2021-2022

[Jessicka]

Are these tactics though? Crowd the ball, try to get it back then because everyone is on top of each other there’s no one to actually play it on to? Keep making too many backward and sideways passes until it’s inevitably lost? Break forward but nobody run with them so there’s zero options at the end of it? Constant whining and flailing arms as if it’ll make any difference to the decisions?

I don’t know what Rangnick is telling them, but I’m sure it isn’t this. The first instinct isn’t even to just get their heads down and play football. Nobody is doing that but Cavani.

[Zantera]

Are these tactics though? Crowd the ball, try to get it back then because everyone is on top of each other there’s no one to actually play it on to? Keep making too many backward and sideways passes until it’s inevitably lost? Break forward but nobody run with them so there’s zero options at the end of it? Constant whining and flailing arms as if it’ll make any difference to the decisions?

I don’t know what Rangnick is telling them, but I’m sure it isn’t this. The first instinct isn’t even to just get their heads down and play football. Nobody is doing that but Cavani.

I think it takes a while with any manager before you really see their tactics in full force on the pitch, same with Pep, Klopp or Tuchel who all needed some time to instill their tactics into the team. We've looked lost for a long time and it's a side effect of our Vibes FC approach "go out there and have fun and do what you want" which resulted in maybe half our backline pressing and the other two looking like mongoloids and you still see that now.

4th is still within reason to reach (7 points behind with 2 games less) so the dropped points yesterday aren't necessarily the end of the world. I think the performance is more worrying than the result.

[Jessicka]

I think it takes a while with any manager before you really see their tactics in full force on the pitch, same with Pep, Klopp or Tuchel who all needed some time to instill their tactics into the team. We've looked lost for a long time and it's a side effect of our Vibes FC approach "go out there and have fun and do what you want" which resulted in maybe half our backline pressing and the other two looking like mongoloids and you still see that now.

4th is still within reason to reach (7 points behind with 2 games less) so the dropped points yesterday aren't necessarily the end of the world. I think the performance is more worrying than the result.

That two pressing has turned into pretty much everyone pressing, being bad at it, and leaving enormous spaces on the pitch.

You’re right about performance. Newcastle are bad, yet we made them look good, we’ve needed De Gea on top form to get points from the bottom two sides in the league. There are going to be a lot more big score lines against us this season without question.

[Zantera]

That two pressing has turned into pretty much everyone pressing, being bad at it, and leaving enormous spaces on the pitch.

You’re right about performance. Newcastle are bad, yet we made them look good, we’ve needed De Gea on top form to get points from the bottom two sides in the league. There are going to be a lot more big score lines against us this season without question.

We just feel really fragmented to the point it feels we have an attack and a defense but the missing link is a functioning midfield. I don't even think Fred or Mctominay are terrible if you look at them as individuals but we really need a midfield that gels well. At least rumors suggest that we are looking at a midfielder for January so if there's any hope for the rest of the season I think that would be a big step.

Regarding the pressing I think the pressing itself feels better but we really struggle to do anything when we get the ball. Yesterday for example there were a lot of 'possession lost' by multiple players and it doesn't matter if you win the ball back if you lose it again. Currently it feels a bit like oil and water with how the last time under Ole felt like it was about maintaining the ball, having possession with lots of easy sideways passing and slowly moving the team up - to now winning the ball and 1-2 passes later you should be in the other team's box. Doesn't seem like the players have been able to switch on to that yet.

[Xanjori]

As a Spurs fan reading the Utd woes I sure am glad we picked up Conte when we did! (Although god damn I wish we'd been able to get him during the summer.) And I do also know we've not really played any big teams since he took over but just the fact he is putting away the little teams (and most of our wins have been quite convincing) is a great sign. It still feels odd to think last year we had Mourinho and this year we have Conte. It'd be great to see Conte given some time with our squad, with the new stadium and training facility that are so hyped I'd love to think that the right manager can turn that into something, and the guys a serial winner.

Its also nice looking at the table and seeing that with our games in hand we're definitely in contention for that top 4 spot too (in fact if we won our 3 games in hand we'd only be 2 points behind Chelsea.) Speaking of Chelsea I expected them to be the leaders this year but they've fallen off a bit and Man City are being relentless. Still its nice that the league is currently a 3 horse race and we could have anything happen.

[Fkiolaris]

Feels good to be vindicated when I said a new manager couldn’t fix this shit show.

Feels good to be vindicated that a new manager while being in charge for 1 month and with zero transfer windows "can't fix this shit show", but still claims that the previous manager who was in charge for 3 years, spent 440m in transfers and failed to achieve anything in every single metric should have been given the rest of the season to prove God knows what. I mean, honestly

[Jessicka]

Feels good to be vindicated that a new manager while being in charge for 1 month and with zero transfer windows "can't fix this shit show", but still claims that the previous manager who was in charge for 3 years, spent 440m in transfers and failed to achieve anything in every single metric should have been given the rest of the season to prove God knows what. I mean, honestly

So the answer is clearly pissing another £150m on replacing coaching staff and yet more transfers, totally going to turn around a side that makes Norwich and Newcastle look good. Let's see what kind of footballing masterclass Burnley are capable of on Thursday.

[Fkiolaris]

So the answer is clearly pissing another £150m on replacing coaching staff and yet more transfers, totally going to turn around a side that makes Norwich and Newcastle look good. Let's see what kind of footballing masterclass Burnley are capable of on Thursday.

If you would be kind enough to explain to me how a manager that has not done a single transfer yet is "pissing another £150m", then I am all ears. Especially when said manager has a record of finding cheap "nobodies" and turning them into great players, unlike our Lord and Saviour OGS.

PS how about the single metric that showed that Ole did anything good in those 3 years?

[Jessicka]

If you would be kind enough to explain to me how a manager that has not done a single transfer yet is "pissing another £150m", then I am all ears. Especially when said manager has a record of finding cheap "nobodies" and turning them into great players, unlike our Lord and Saviour OGS.

PS how about the single metric that showed that Ole did anything good in those 3 years?

You realise he has a contract right, and he’s brought in his own coaching staff as well, who also have to be paid and their prior employers paid off? As well as paying off the coaches they sacked off.

Then there’s the ton of money we’re supposedly spending this January that doesn’t seem to have been planned. Just ‘a midfielder, hopefully’ I guess?

As for OGS, improved league positions, cup runs, and just a general sense of not being a toxic shithole of Jose’s creation.

The time to make changes was last summer, with a proper succession plan. Not throwing more shit at the wall and money down the pan at Christmas. But that wouldn’t be the United way. Maybe it’ll happen this summer, but having Rangnick in now isn’t going to get us anywhere near 4th, but that was never happening anyway.

So yeah, I’ll gladly be wrong about this, but another £150m for no real improvement to get to the same place we’d get by the summer doesn’t look wide of the mark. Only with added disruption.

[Fkiolaris]

You realise he has a contract right, and he’s brought in his own coaching staff as well, who also have to be paid and their prior employers paid off? As well as paying off the coaches they sacked off.

Then there’s the ton of money we’re supposedly spending this January that doesn’t seem to have been planned. Just ‘a midfielder, hopefully’ I guess?

As for OGS, improved league positions, cup runs, and just a general sense of not being a toxic shithole of Jose’s creation.

The time to make changes was last summer, with a proper succession plan. Not throwing more shit at the wall and money down the pan at Christmas. But that wouldn’t be the United way. Maybe it’ll happen this summer, but having Rangnick in now isn’t going to get us anywhere near 4th, but that was never happening anyway.

So Ole won nothing (unlike the previous 2 managers) with a vastly bigger budget, did nothing better in the league than the previous 2 managers, but the environment was nicer (?) for those players that everybody now is saying that they are over-rated and should be sold - and that's the reason to keep him according to you. Noted.

As for the whole argument about doing things in a more organised manner in the summer, I am with you 100% and the owners/board get no free pass for it. However, the same is true for the people who were/are still supporting Ole while ignoring what was right in front of them for more than a full season- that Ole is a shit manager and we were going nowhere (at best) with him in charge.

Finally, regarding the alleged "tons of money" we are spending this winter, when we actually do spend any then come here and whinge about it. In the meantime, as I am 100% sure you already know (but for some bizarre reason you chose to ignore), every transfer window "Man Utd will spend 250m minimum" and will buy every player with a pulse - according to the papers, that is. Maybe we will this time, we don't know, but I am happy to give Rangnick a fair chance at the transfer market, especially if nobody above him will be dictating BS moves that are purely based on commercial criteria.

[Zantera]

I loved what Ole did for us as a player and I think initially at least the first season, maybe two he did a decent job getting rid of some of the crap even though it became painfully clear that he wasn't good enough to win us anything. Still, take away him being a "Man Utd man" and his history as a player, say anyone else like Tim Sherwood or Sam Allerdyce was the manager for these seasons and there's no way people would be as defensive of the manager with how we performed. Like others have said, we spent a crazy amount of money during the Ole era and we have nothing to show for it.

[Jessicka]

So Ole won nothing (unlike the previous 2 managers) with a vastly bigger budget, did nothing better in the league than the previous 2 managers, but the environment was nicer (?) for those players that everybody now is saying that they are over-rated and should be sold - and that's the reason to keep him according to you. Noted.

As for the whole argument about doing things in a more organised manner in the summer, I am with you 100% and the owners/board get no free pass for it. However, the same is true for the people who were/are still supporting Ole while ignoring what was right in front of them for more than a full season- that Ole is a shit manager and we were going nowhere (at best) with him in charge.

Finally, regarding the alleged "tons of money" we are spending this winter, when we actually do spend any then come here and whinge about it. In the meantime, as I am 100% sure you already know (but for some bizarre reason you chose to ignore), every transfer window "Man Utd will spend 250m minimum" and will buy every player with a pulse - according to the papers, that is. Maybe we will this time, we don't know, but I am happy to give Rangnick a fair chance at the transfer market, especially if nobody above him will be dictating BS moves that are purely based on commercial criteria.

Just to be clear, hiring Rangnick and his staff weren't free. Letting OGS go wasn't free. There was a lot of money spent on that changeover, and more will be spent terminating and hiring coaching staff and facilities regardless of player transfers.

[Northern Goblin]

So Ole won nothing (unlike the previous 2 managers) with a vastly bigger budget

Van Gaal spent £310 mil in his first two seasons.
Mourinho spent £343 mil in his first two seasons.
Solksjaer spent £286 mil in his first two seasons.

Since then in his last two seasons he spent a total of £201 mil.

Not seeing this bigger budget, unless by that you mean he spent more over four seasons than Van Gaal over two and Mourinho over three.

[MCMLXXXII]

You guys probably never heard of him but today Chris Gyan passed away. A highly religious player from Ghana, who played for Feyenoord. A bit of a cult figure. Won the UEFA cup in 2002. He later played two matches for Wrexham. After his career he was penniless because he gave everything to charity. Had some jobs in the harbor just to give his wife and kids some food. Fans had a fundraiser for him. Chris was 43 years old. Farewell hero!

[Fkiolaris]

Just to be clear, hiring Rangnick and his staff weren't free. Letting OGS go wasn't free. There was a lot of money spent on that changeover, and more will be spent terminating and hiring coaching staff and facilities regardless of player transfers.

Ole got according to reports 7.5m for being fired, money that would have been spent regardless at the end of the season since, as you have said yourself, he wasn't getting top 4. His 3 coaches wouldn't cost anywhere near that money to be moved since they are on much lower salaries plus a) Carrick resigned, b) MK left on his own and c) Phelan is still around. So that's an absolutely minimum amount of money spent on them. Finally, Rangnick and his assistants are on 6 month contracts for managing/coaching the team, how much do you think they all got together, especially when you consider that they are neither massive international names nor club legends?

Having said all that, I will happily give you an entirely unrealistic 7.5m per each group (Ole, his assistants, the new team for 6 months) so overall 22.5m to stop the team's free fall and overall regression during the last 3 years. In other words, about two thirds of what we spent to get Lindelof. Is that really the hill you are willing to die upon in regards to the whinging about money or is getting out of this current situation not really much of a concern for you?

Van Gaal spent £310 mil in his first two seasons.
Mourinho spent £343 mil in his first two seasons.
Solksjaer spent £286 mil in his first two seasons.

Since then in his last two seasons he spent a total of £201 mil.

Not seeing this bigger budget, unless by that you mean he spent more over four seasons than Van Gaal over two and Mourinho over three.

I am no maths professor mate, but December 2018 to November 2021 reads like 3 years to me, not 4. That's also 4-5 months extra than Mourihno, so time-wise their tenures are comparable. Also, Van Gaal spent nowhere near 310m, more like 260m in signings plus probably the reported 50m cost for the Falcao loan that was done entirely by Ed the clown who wanted to make a "statement" to the football world...(don't get me started on that imbecile).

But even if your figures about LVG and JM are correct, Ole spent 130m more than LVG for an extra season and almost 100m than JM for 5 months extra, and all that in order to win less than either, or more precisely in order to win absolutely fuck all. If that still doesn't read like a bigger budget to you (and for zero returns on top of that), then maybe you could define what "bigger" means to you.

[Jessicka]

Ole got according to reports 7.5m for being fired, money that would have been spent regardless at the end of the season since, as you have said yourself, he wasn't getting top 4. His 3 coaches wouldn't cost anywhere near that money to be moved since they are on much lower salaries plus a) Carrick resigned, b) MK left on his own and c) Phelan is still around. So that's an absolutely minimum amount of money spent on them. Finally, Rangnick and his assistants are on 6 month contracts for managing/coaching the team, how much do you think they all got together, especially when you consider that they are neither massive international names nor club legends?

Having said all that, I will happily give you an entirely unrealistic 7.5m per each group (Ole, his assistants, the new team for 6 months) so overall 22.5m to stop the team's free fall and overall regression during the last 3 years. In other words, about two thirds of what we spent to get Lindelof. Is that really the hill you are willing to die upon in regards to the whinging about money or is getting out of this current situation not really much of a concern for you?

I don't see anything to suggest the rot has stopped, Rangnick hasn't managed in 2-3 years, and didn't win anything when he did. By the end of January it'll be easily upwards of £70m spent to tread water in 6th or 7th place. Granted, that's half the figure I originally stated, but yes, I feel even that's wasteful.

[Fkiolaris]

I don't see anything to suggest the rot has stopped, Rangnick hasn't managed in 2-3 years, and didn't win anything when he did. By the end of January it'll be easily upwards of £70m spent to tread water in 6th or 7th place. Yes, I feel that's wasteful.

You haven't seen anything in 3 weeks, but you saw enough by Ole in 3 years! I honestly have no words for you and people like you anymore, just go away and create an "Ole FC" to worship and attend their games!

[Jessicka]

You haven't seen anything in 3 weeks, but you saw enough by Ole in 3 years! I honestly have no words for you and people like you anymore, just go away and create an "Ole FC" to worship and attend their games!

I already said the time to do it was during the summer. Do you really think a 4-2-2-2 formation makes any fucking sense at all? I'm fed up of seeing the team where I already attend their games lurching from one knee-jerk crisis to the next.

[Fkiolaris]

I already said the time to do it was during the summer. Do you really think a 4-2-2-2 formation makes any fucking sense at all? I'm fed up of seeing the team where I already attend their games lurching from one knee-jerk crisis to the next.

And I have already said that I agree with that. But it didn't happen, so we should have stayed with Ole for the full season because the costs of firing him and replacing him are too high? How about the costs of losing Europe entirely while having every single player's value go down the toilet- is that not money wasted for you? What about the utter shitshow on offer every game with ZERO hope for change or improvement? At least we have some hope for now, whether you like it or not. As for the tactics, do you have any commentary on offer on Ole's amazing tactics? Like what they were to begin with (beyond "park the bus and hope for a moment of individual brilliance, most likely by Bruno or Pogba") or what fucking sense they made?

As I said, Ole FC is that way and don't let anyone hold you.

[Northern Goblin]

I am no maths professor mate, but December 2018 to November 2021 reads like 3 years to me, not 4.

Seasons, not years. Remember he joined mid season, and immediately went into a January transfer window where United signed Fernandes.

That's also 4-5 months extra than Mourihno, so time-wise their tenures are comparable.

Alright. Both had 3 summers and one got an extra January window, fair?

In Solskjaer's entire time at the club he spent £412 million (I'd accidentally attributed Mourinho signings to him in the previous summer window)
In Mourinho's entire time at the club he spent £419 million. (See above)

Remind me again how that's a bigger budget when you spend less despite being in position for more transfer windows?

Admittedly, this puts your reply at a disadvantage as I gave you incorrect figures, but the "bigger budget" argument is clearly bollocks.

Also is it really a bigger budget when a sizable chunk of that was selling Lukaku to generate funds?

Also, Van Gaal spent nowhere near 310m, more like 260m in signings plus probably the reported 50m cost for the Falcao loan that was done entirely by Ed the clown who wanted to make a "statement" to the football world...(don't get me started on that imbecile).

Actually, the figures I'm going off have that loan deal around 6 million. Di Maria, Shaw, Herrera, Rojo, Blind followed by Martial, Schneiderlin, Depay, Darmian and Schweinsteiger were all more than Falcao, and 6 of them were 30 mil+

But even if your figures about LVG and JM are correct, Ole spent 130m more than LVG for an extra season and almost 100m than JM for 5 months extra, and all that in order to win less than either, or more precisely in order to win absolutely fuck all. If that still doesn't read like a bigger budget to you (and for zero returns on top of that), then maybe you could define what "bigger" means to you.

A bigger budget is one that has more to invest. You seem to be confusing it with return, which everyone has admitted Solskjaer failed to do. His tenure at the club, from the position it was at when he took over, was defined as progress but not success.

But when you claim he had a bigger budget, that's the argument that he had more to spend, which frankly isn't true. When you break all three down as average spend for time spent there, Solskjaer is behind both men.

Maybe another 50 million or so could win an FA Cup or Europa League final.