Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[YUPPIE]

Stupid is, stupid does. Feel sorry for his family but not for this idiot.

How was he stupid? And that's really callous on someone's death.

[JohnBrown1917]

How was he stupid? And that's really callous on someone's death.

He was a danger to society.

[YUPPIE]

He was a danger to society.

why does the news mourn his passing then? If what you say is true, it should be outlined as a cautionary tale. But he died by his convictions.

He was a notable figure in far right politics as well, at least as far as the pandemic is concerned.

[draynay]

How was he stupid? And that's really callous on someone's death.

Posting about the death of a prominent anti-vaxxer in the COVID thread and then feigning shock when people aren't mourning him, this is sad even for you. Get a real hobby.

[Rasulis]

America continues to be the land of contradictions.

Where the poor are obese, and the rich are skinny. And the people that need the medicine the most are the ones most likely to refuse taking the medication. All in the name of personal freedom.

Nearly Half of Unvaccinated Americans Say They Wouldn't Take Pfizer's COVID Pill (Paxlovid).

Totally bonkers.

[Poopymonster]

RIP Robin Fransman

Man faces the consequences of his actions.

[YUPPIE]

Nearly Half of Unvaccinated Americans Say They Wouldn't Take Pfizer's COVID Pill (Paxlovid).[/URL][/I][/B]

it's up to you, freedom of choice, which is good. There are plenty of countries right now that claim democracy stating they desire to make vaccinating mandatory.

[Ivanstone]

it's up to you, freedom of choice, which is good. There are plenty of countries right now that claim democracy stating they desire to make vaccinating mandatory.

You have the freedom to not punch people. You have the freedom to punch people. Or you would but there are plenty of countries that are actual democracies where the government mandated that punching people is bad.

Not getting a vaccine is the equivalent of committing assault.

[Lenonis]

How was he stupid?

I would argue avoiding proven treatments during a pandemic is pretty stupid.

But you knew that. You are just acting... rather terribly I might add. Don't quit your day job.

[Zantos]

Here are the errors in that paragraph:

• The study you linked says at least 50% for presymptomatic and asymptomatic, not for asymptomatic alone.
• The study you claim is more recent was published March 2021 (approved in January), and the other study was published in April 2021 (likely approved in February). Both used data from early 2020, but analyzing specific cases likely takes more time.
• It wasn't just "phone interviews" but traditional epidemiological work in testing and contact tracing, including testing of contacts which clearly wasn't done by phone. The other study just looked at aggregate data - and incorrectly assumes that if there is sufficient testing capacity (in some sense) then all symptomatic cases will get tested, which ignores human nature and that many cases are mild and that the symptoms overlap with many other diseases.

Doing contact tracing by phone is a good idea, since you want to do it early and not needlessly be in physical contact with infected individuals and it may take time, since people have to remember all contacts.

Ok, so let me go over a few things. Presymptomatic and asymptomatic mean the same to me for the purpose of this discussion with that other fella. Why? Because they aren't showing signs at that point, regardless. I know what they are defined as, but they support the point I was trying to make to the other guy, you can still very much spread it as long as you have it. Regardless of showing symptoms. That is why I clump those two together. Trying to say "you cant spread it if you are asymptomatic" is bad. The presymptomatic portion goes to further cement and strengthen the fact that you don't need to be visibly sick to still spread it. You need to be cautious at all times in this pandemic. Regardless of if you think you have it or if you are showing symptoms of it.

Second point: time being later means it had more it could go over. But was more or less proving again that this is ever changing. Even within a months time span like that.

Third point: That CDC study you linked Clearly said that they, themselves, did no testing. They spoke to them over the phone. Nothing more. They never even tried to contact the contacts they indicated they may have spread it to, nor did they go over any data from any testing beyond knowing already that they tested positive. They asked them to try to recall if they had any symptoms that they could think of. Read the appendix on it. It shows that it was less of a study and more of a call and ask a few questions. Nothing can be drawn from it. So yes, I know they were clearly tested, which is why they knew who to call for the group. However, that is where it really ends for them.

The Only thing contact tracing is good to determine in this specific discussion of ours is if they had covid. That's it. Its not going to help determine if covid is any less transmissible just because its asymptomatic. It only helps in trying to track where it may go next, but that hasn't really gone too far with how easily spread this thing is. Especially when even if they do trace them, they can't do anything to inhibit them from further spreading it.

[Rasulis]

The updated CDC community transmission numbers are just nuts.

D.C. is 2,054? NY 1,482. FL 960. Freaking Puerto Rico 1,279.

[PhaelixWW]

The updated CDC community transmission numbers are just nuts.

D.C. is 2,054? NY 1,482. FL 960. Freaking Puerto Rico 1,279.

Yeah, things are not going well in NYC.

[Forogil]

Ok, so let me go over a few things. Presymptomatic and asymptomatic mean the same to me for the purpose of this discussion with that other fella. Why? Because they aren't showing signs at that point, regardless.

I understand that they are similar, that's why I originally just wrote that it wasn't fully correct and more focused on the other problematic parts of that study until you doubled down on it.

However, there are important differences - and this idea that we have a large number of asymptomatic cases and that they are a major factor in the spread the infection is a problem in itself.

The problem is that it gives cover for people who have mild symptoms that might be covid (sore throat, headache, back pain) and don't self-isolate and don't test; if they infect someone else they can argue that they must have been asymptomatic - and it wasn't their fault that the grandparents were infected and granny died.

Recognizing the importance of pre-symptomatic spread is on the other hand important to understand the need for contact tracing.

Third point: That CDC study you linked Clearly said that they, themselves, did no testing.

From the paper:

The LPHA (local public health authority) immediately initiated contact tracing, identifying all close contacts; they were quarantined and tested irrespective of symptoms.

And then those results were handed over a team of scientists from the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) who interviewed all cases belonging to the cluster (and wrote the scientific paper - together with ECDC and some others; the LPHA is acknowledged but not co-author).

That's testing and contact tracing by the book for an outbreak of a new disease.

The fact that the initial testing and contact tracing were done by one local team and the advanced study by another team (from the federal level - and a bit later) isn't odd - that's using the right person for the job; and the point was that they were tested and contact traced - not specifically who did that.

Their ethics statement supports that:

This outbreak investigation was conducted as part of the authoritative official tasks of the LPHA of the district supported by the RKI upon official request in accordance to §4 of the German Protection against Infection Act.

Added: To clarify: RKI does by that law in Germany fulfil a similar role as CDC in the US.

The Only thing contact tracing is good to determine in this specific discussion of ours is if they had covid. That's it. Its not going to help determine if covid is any less transmissible just because its asymptomatic.

Except they interviewed people who were contacts, and thus tested and found to be infected, some of those were fully asymptomatic (based on the survey of symptoms) and they looked at their contact as well (since they were infected), and found that none of them were infected.
I'm not saying that just because they found no asymptomatic infections the risk is 0% - just that the risk seems fairly low, and that it shouldn't be confused with presymptomatic spread.

As far I understand the quarantines mentioned above were quarantines under federal law in Germany; something that wouldn't fully work in the US; that's why CDC has "quarantine" rules that explains precautions for breaking it.

[Belize]

Hoo buddy, Omnicron is in full swing down here in Texas.

Cases went from 20~ a day to 260 in a week, and hospitalizations from 4 to 63 in a week.

Only 8 in the hospital are vaccinated.

[Forogil]

Yeah, things are not going well in NYC.

And there's nothing they can do to prevent that :-)

[PhaelixWW]

And there's nothing they can do to prevent that :-)

If people in NYC haven't been convinced to get the vaccine by now, I'm not sure what would do it.

The only real next step is a clear vaccine mandate. They're attempting a tough private sector mandate right now, but it may not last, as a new mayor is being sworn in at the end of the year.

Regardless, I'm not sure a new vaccination campaign would even begin to have time to work before this omicron surge is going to burn itself out. We'll just have to cross our fingers for the unvaccinated in the hospitals for now.

[Forogil]

The updated CDC community transmission numbers are just nuts.

D.C. is 2,054? NY 1,482. FL 960. Freaking Puerto Rico 1,279.

Omicron is spreading fast everywhere, but in most places hospital admissions are increasing considerably less in comparison to cases than last year.

Looking at a country with high case per capita (partially due to large amount of testing, and partially due to Omicron taking root early):

Already 10 days ago Denmark were at 1.0% of the population as cases per week - it's now at 1.6%; and that 1.0% was more than twice the previous peak (0.42%) - and still new weekly hospital admissions are below that peak (assuming that people mostly go to hospital 10 days after seeing symptoms). But there are other factors as well.

However, most of that seems to be be due to the vaccine - and cases and hospitalization might rise further. (Case-reporting was messed up during x-mas; hospitalizations less so.)

- - - Updated - - -

Nearly Half of Unvaccinated Americans Say They Wouldn't Take Pfizer's COVID Pill (Paxlovid).

Totally bonkers.

I wonder how many of the half that will take believe the conspiracy that it is just repackaged Ivermectin with higher margins?

(And just for the record it isn't - https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/pfi...ed-ivermectin/ )

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Anti-vaxxers were bound to get a wake-up call one day. The flu wasn't enough? How'd about a full-blown-pandemic? I only hope when the dust is settled, there won't be so many of them in the next generation.

[PACOX]

Once again, the CDC is insane and people will forget that the CDC promoted some crazy shit once things hit the fan.

[PACOX]

Care to elaborate a bit? I don’t remember anything crazy being promoted.

Quarantine person is down to 5 days. Not sure about that but whatever. Then they stay 'but you should then wear a mask for 5 days and (paraphrasing) negative tests and needed).

I don't want to get into the politics of it but it's s a mess. What they are really saying is, “the 10 day rule still applies if you promise to absolutely wear a mask (which they now define as surgical masks or or above opposed to cloth ones) at all times around people. Confusing if you're someone who relies on the CDC for information and relies on people following the guidelines to a tee while being honest (while nothing is holding them to that honesty).

It reflects when they told people to stop wearing masks right as delta emerged. It also reflects a nation that has done so bad at dealing with the pandemic that we can't afford to quarantine sick people anymore. Healthcare workers are straight up going to work with COVID. There's hospitals where if you say you're vaccinated they put you next to COVID patients. It's all a hot mess.

It would be cool if everyone stuck with it. We would not be 2 years into the pandemic if everyone stuck with it.