Menacing Jailer

[username993720]

Do you think the Jailer would have been more intimidating if he was chained for most of the expansion?

Like, i wanted to see him like this:


Walking around him, seeing him screaming and going wild trying to break free while you just pray to god that he wouldn't.

Instead, they chose to free him the moment we get there and him being all calm and calculated. Where's the rage, where's the hatred and where are the tusks?

They could have saved the "set free" card for the last patch, where we actually face him. And in the Maw, instead of this jolly-looking Zereth Mortis.

[Dald]

Nothing scary about a caged animal.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

They must have decided not to complete/start some more High Res Cinematics using the Jailer/Covenant characters, right?
At least the scene of him breaking out? They had Sylvanas model for that too, if she was there.

I've really tried to keep riding this wave of SL lore, but I am mostly bummed that Zovaal didn't get more WCIII style Cinematic Screen-time to flesh out his best dialogue and stuff.

They really dropped the ball on the villain presentation, when it turns out, the whole bit of lore was there to make it seem at least -very- 'bold, ambitious, fresh' evolution of the Warcraft brand. (for marketing speak)

Probably fair to say that they really should have at least shown him breaking out, for trailer/hype purposes.

[DeltrusDisc]

Yeah... He's a big disappointing flop all around.

[Candlewick]

I dread the idea that they might go for the double reversal was a hero all along and was trying to remake the universe into a ever green paradise free from suffering. That everything he has done to this point was to achieve that end.

[Skirdus]

I mean, we kinda did that with N'Zoth, and look how that turned out.

Blizz has an inherent ability to butcher any single aspect of their story, no matter the circumstances

[Powerogue]

Well he obviously needs to be loose to cause the events of the expansion though.

I guess they could've done it to where Sylvanas and other minions were causing most of the bad stuff, then he's finally released and that's the "oh shit" moment, but that's what they were going for with the "he regains his full original power, and is headed to the Build-A-Universe Workshop, we're all boned now" story arc.

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I dread the idea that they might go for the double reversal was a hero all along and was trying to remake the universe into a ever green paradise free from suffering. That everything he has done to this point was to achieve that end.

Ehhh that was Thanos's Plan B and the Avengers still stopped him.

[username993720]

Nothing scary about a caged animal.

No, because the freed him is really scary.

They really dropped the ball on the villain presentation, when it turns out, the whole bit of lore was there to make it seem at least -very- 'bold, ambitious, fresh' evolution of the Warcraft brand. (for marketing speak)

They showed him "chained" in the game trailer with a voice saying "which should never be set free".
That's the premise that should have been expanded. Not him already being freed.

I dread the idea that they might go for the double reversal was a hero all along and was trying to remake the universe into a ever green paradise free from suffering. That everything he has done to this point was to achieve that end.

Well, the raid journal says he wants to create eternal torment reality, so i wouldn't worry about that.

I mean, we kinda did that with N'Zoth, and look how that turned out.

Blizz has an inherent ability to butcher any single aspect of their story, no matter the circumstances

Well, we didn't actually get to see N'zoth until his release. And when he did get released, he was no more menacing than a puppy

Well he obviously needs to be loose to cause the events of the expansion though.

Not at all. He barely did anything.

[Nerovar]

This thread made me realize that the Jailer went through 4 different visual designs ever since they've announced Shadowlands.

[Eazy]

Would be cool actually.

I mean, seeing him caged but that's all. No screaming, that would make him look like a child who's doing a tantrum.
Hearing him saying that he would destroy the whole universe if he could escape... and in the 9.1 when we defeat Sylvanas and her last words should be "you... are... too late...", and then we would see the empty room with broken chains on the floor.

That would actually be cool to be honest.

[ohwell]

Yeah... He's a big disappointing flop all around.

Then you didn't pay attention to any of the story. Glad you're contributing so much to the thread with that being the case....

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Shadowlands needed leaps and bounds more 3D cinematics to even begin to form a cohesive, engaging, satisfying narrative.

Who the hell is the Jailer and why does he want to remake reality? Do we know? Was it explained in any meaningful, significant way?

We don't have a clue, he could've been a sympathetic character, betrayed by the pantheon of Death, the type of villain you try to stop but also somewhat understand.

But he wasn't expanded upon, because this isn't his story, it's Sylvans' story.

Yes it was pretty much all be entirely explained already. Why are people like this even allowed to continue to post such toxicity about a story they didn't pay any attention to...

[Athorha]

And the eye of the jailer couldve been the hole in his chest cavity, so we would've spent the first tier in the maw being tormented by the jailers presence but still have no clue how he is able to have such a presence despite being chained up where we knew him to be.

Tier .5 could've ended with us defeating the eye and us thinking the jailer is no longer the primary threat.

T1 would be denathrius taking advantage of no jailer eye presence

T1.5 jailer escape /deceiving us raid

T2 somewhat like second half of sanctum except maybe kelthuzad would spinoff into t2.5, I really disliked his direct presence / being written so close to the end of sanctum.

[Rustedsaint]

I kinda wanted that legendary maker npc to turn out to be the true jailer and that the jailer we seen before was just a henchman using us to free his boss.

[Menog]

Then you didn't pay attention to any of the story. Glad you're contributing so much to the thread with that being the case....

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Yes it was pretty much all be entirely explained already. Why are people like this even allowed to continue to post such toxicity about a story they didn't pay any attention to...

What are you even babbling about? Tell me why is Than... err I mean the janitor trying to remake reality? Can you teach me senpai?

[username993720]

Would be cool actually.

I mean, seeing him caged but that's all. No screaming, that would make him look like a child who's doing a tantrum.
Hearing him saying that he would destroy the whole universe if he could escape... and in the 9.1 when we defeat Sylvanas and her last words should be "you... are... too late...", and then we would see the empty room with broken chains on the floor.

That would actually be cool to be honest.

The guy is buffed. I don't want him to be the quiet, calculated bad guy. He's supposed to be physically menacing as well.

[rayvio]

the cage worked for N'Zoth because we had lots of story building up how bad it would be for him (or any Old God) to break free. having the Jailer just show up in chains without any build up would've been even worse than the cartoon villain we got

[Polybius]

Nothing scary about a caged animal.

But there is something nerve-racking about a chained one. See: King Kong.

[McNeil]

I would actually like if they did something similiar like with Tai Lung from Kung-Fu Panda. Have the expansion start with the Jailer still in chains, he manages to escape and we get a scenario where we attempt to stop him but he completely recks the place and kills off all guards while also threatening the players that he'll come for everyone who defied him, leaving them as the survivors to tell the tale to others.

[Candlewick]

When was it explained and where?

Keep in mind I'm talking about meaningful and significant explanations, something so significant should've been dealt with in a cinematic.

Are you referring to the quest "Covenants Renewed" where the Primus discloses that the Jailer used to be the Arbiter, but that he was cast into the Maw when he tried to move against the Primus and the others?

Is that it?

Because the Primus doesn't explain why the Jailer moved against them to begin with. The Jailer himself claims he wishes to unmake reality because he believes the design of the First Ones is flawed, but he doesn't say why it's flawed.

His motivations thus far are completely unexplained and we're literally about to fight him.

Its why I would find it amazing if they pulled the rug out and had him be utterly selfess then after he dies have the covenant leaders all laugh about how they are now free to torture, mind wipe, force souls to fight , and feed them to gods for all eternity.

I miss killing dragons so fucking much...

[Alydael]

Do you think the Jailer would have been more intimidating if he was chained for most of the expansion?

Like, i wanted to see him like this:


Walking around him, seeing him screaming and going wild trying to break free while you just pray to god that he wouldn't.

Instead, they chose to free him the moment we get there and him being all calm and calculated. Where's the rage, where's the hatred and where are the tusks?

They could have saved the "set free" card for the last patch, where we actually face him. And in the Maw, instead of this jolly-looking Zereth Mortis.

Agreed, he should have been chained with Sylvanus as the acting protagonist until the end of SOD. SOD should have been set up as a "race." Sylvanus rushing to free the jailer and we try to stop her. She beats us and frees him, he rushes off the Sepulcher and we have the final battle with Sylvanus.

The jailer is the type of villain that needs mystery. He is involved with cosmic forces, forces we can not comprehend. Every detail you fill in about him actually makes him weaker from a story telling perspective. The details help us understand him but we shouldn't be able to understand him, he should be beyond our comprehension. They should have never tried to "explain" the Shadowlands- it should exist beyond our comprehension.

The other big mistake they made is the MAW. They basically killed their own end game zone DOA on launch by having that eye mechanic and the limited time.

They need to hire better people to work on these things if we can come up with something better just playing around on the forums in a few minutes.