So is the Wow community council dead?

[Nero Duskwind]

And then Blizzard release a new pet or mount in store and they all buy it and sub again. Sad but the game is propped up by a lot of people who just cannot let it go, no matter how little they enjoy the game. Why should they listen? you will pay the sub anyway

Sunk Cost Fallacy is a hard trap to break out of, especially when Blizz uses FOMO promos such as the "free" in-store mounts that are tied to a 6-month commitment to perpetuate the trap .

[Miffinat0r]

Works just fine for FFXIV, in fact it's one of the reasons people moved over from WoW, they were tired of being treated like second class citizens. Fun fact, not a single hardcore raider in FFXIV complain about casuals getting good gear a few months after they got it themselves.

Not sure how people ignored this; It pretty much summarizes the current state of things. WoW went too hardcore; Players got mad. Then they left and joined in FF14. The cultural differences in the game have proven that most casuals want a friendly non-competitive environment to game in peace with. That's just the truth of the matter.

WoW doesn't offer in-game moderation so when a M+ group flops people can freely harass others based on add-ons. WoW's endgame is only based on "competitive" play, which is fine for some, but most actually pass on that (Newsflash: Real life is competitive enough, I don't want my freetime turning into how I am at work.)

WoW bases it's entire game around it's endgame and it rushed players into a competitive environment against their own wishes.

The sad truth of the matter is Acti-Blizz is always going to keep a tight lid on their sub numbers. But lets be real; if they were to be honest we'd all know they'd say that the accounts they lose consistently every expansion are from casual players.

[Lolites]

Players are good in finding things that are not good

not really, players are good at finding things THEY PERSONLAY DONT LIKE, that doesnt make the things bad, just check any pathfinder thread to see the dozens of diffeerent opinions how it should be handle, that should give you a clue

[Miffinat0r]

not really, players are good at finding things THEY PERSONLAY DONT LIKE, that doesnt make the things bad, just check any pathfinder thread to see the dozens of diffeerent opinions how it should be handle, that should give you a clue

to be fair that pathfinder thread isn't all over the board. Seems the majority want it taken away and return to what flying was originally, and literally like 2 nay sayers versus 13.

[Arcreid]

Works just fine for FFXIV, in fact it's one of the reasons people moved over from WoW, they were tired of being treated like second class citizens. Fun fact, not a single hardcore raider in FFXIV complain about casuals getting good gear a few months after they got it themselves.

Yea good luck telling WOW "casuals" to wait for the next patch to even start gearing from a previous raid gear.

Here's a good trick, farm Korthia for a heroic ilvl, buy 1 unique Mythic ilvl crafted BOE, buy 2 Mythic BOE, and then buy 1 max Ilvl Legendary (2 for next patch). Congrats you now have enough ilvl to do M+23 without ever stepping into a raid.

You don't even have to wait for the next patch to do it, unlike Final Fantasy.

WOW gearing is the most accessible out of other MMO, the problem is the player base is trying to find a fulfillment out of it.

[Trumpcat]

The point of beta and PTR is to find and report bugs, it's not at all a free-for-all bitch session on how the game should be designed. People do that but it's not the reason to have betas and PTR's. It's for bugs, not early critics reviews and for amateur designers to weigh in.

From being disrespectful towards the feedback to calling it free for all bitch session is plainly disgusting.

[Osmeric]

Alright, so no feedback should ever be given.

The devs had set things up such that certain kinds of valid feedback could not ever be acted on. By the time the feedback could be given, it would be too late for that.

[Miffinat0r]

Yea good luck telling WOW "casuals" to wait for the next patch to even start gearing from a previous raid gear.

Here's a good trick, farm Korthia for a heroic ilvl, buy 1 unique Mythic ilvl crafted BOE, buy 2 Mythic BOE, and then buy 1 max Ilvl Legendary. Congrats you now have enough ilvl to do M+23 without ever stepping into a raid.

You don't even have to wait for the next patch to do it, unlike Final Fantasy.

I think it's the combination of how FF14 does gear, and how the SE team actually police behavior that's kept the casual WoW players happy there. No one wants to live in a libertarian hell hole.

[Lolites]

to be fair that pathfinder thread isn't all over the board. Seems the majority want it taken away and return to what flying was originally, and literally like 2 nay sayers versus 13.

not really, there are people who want it for gold on lvl cap, there are people who want pathfinder but not timegated to next patch, there are people who want pathfinder but no rep grind, there are people who want it how it is, there are people who dont want flying at all... and thats just the "major" groups

[Candlewick]

The devs had set things up such that certain kinds of valid feedback could not ever be acted on. By the time the feedback could be given, it would be too late for that.

This is pretty much the case. Once something is made they dont remove it even if its such a nightmare they can't get it to work they refuse to... azerite armor is the best example of this they changed the system almost entirely in the last few months because they couldn't get it to work and still jammed it in. I would argue conduits got the same treatment just made them extremely weak to offset them not fitting into the game.

- - - Updated - - -

The point of beta and PTR is to find and report bugs, it's not at all a free-for-all bitch session on how the game should be designed. People do that but it's not the reason to have betas and PTR's. It's for bugs, not early critics reviews and for amateur designers to weigh in.

I mean it shoukd be given blizzards success record...

They need to start listening to people who understand the game as they clearly have lost touch less we have another " muh meaningful choices" fucking up the game like bfa, sl, and honest so woukd argue artifact trees from legion.

[Echo of Soul]

Yea good luck telling WOW "casuals" to wait for the next patch to even start gearing from a previous raid gear.

Here's a good trick, farm Korthia for a heroic ilvl, buy 1 unique Mythic ilvl crafted BOE, buy 2 Mythic BOE, and then buy 1 max Ilvl Legendary (2 for next patch). Congrats you now have enough ilvl to do M+23 without ever stepping into a raid.

You don't even have to wait for the next patch to do it, unlike Final Fantasy.

WOW gearing is the most accessible out of other MMO, the problem is the player base is trying to find a fulfillment out of it.

It's not about instant gratifications, it's about having something worthwhile to work towards.

[klaps_05]

Devs just dont work well with feedback. Best recent example the R1 m+ titles - people asked for rewards, instead of something prestigious, more than 1000 people get the same "R1" title. Compare it to the original R1 title from pvp when you actually had to be the rank 1. Dunno what filter all the feedback goes through that we end up with such garbage results.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This idea was dead from the beginning of me.
They already kicked the one person who gave them valid points saying he is racist.
That shows how much they care about the game.

What points did the guy who got kicked bring up?

[Mendzia]

What points did the guy who got kicked bring up?

He made several threads about various topics.
THIS is one of them and you can find MORE when you go to general WoWC forum.
It is not like this person is negative or hateful against the game.
Personally i find him as one of a few members of this Council with valid and reasonable points towards making the game better.
They do not care and kicked him from being part of it for random screenshot on random discord as 'he defended racists'.
That is how current devs care about the game and community feedback.

They kicked a racist which is good and ironically you're right in that it does show that they care about the game. You just meant to have a different point than the one you made.

You know only half part of the story... the part you just want to believe is the only true.
Now check the other one.

[kranur]

To be honest it's existence is a total failure. You open applications to glorify a few people to what exactly? Have louder voices?

All they need to do is hire someone capable of communicating what happens on the forums to the dev team.
It doesn't take a genius to look at the forums for a few weeks and go to the devs and say "Hey idiots, most people have been sick of these systems for the past few years and almost everyone has clearly expressed a long time ago that if you do a redemption story for Sylvanas you're morons.

This community council is just a desperation bullshit attempt at PR and nothing more. They already know what's wrong but they need the treadmill running and won't let it go.

[kranur]

See your mistake is assuming that people posting on the forums represent the majority of the active playerbase. They never have and they never will. That doesn't mean good points arent brought up but Blizzard listened to the online vocal minority for Cataclysm end game and we all know what a shit show that turned into as a result.

So you say that a few people that have applied to write up in green text represent the players better? Okay ... that definitely makes sense.

[Osmeric]

This community council is just a desperation bullshit attempt at PR and nothing more. They already know what's wrong but they need the treadmill running and won't let it go.

I think it's more a desperate internal thing. Some exec went "you guys don't understand what the players want; figure it out" and they put together a mostly useless thing to check that box. I don't think it's aimed at players.

[Kyriani]

They should have got the opinions from the people who stopped playing.

I can't say for sure how many people got one, but as someone who has let their sub lapse, I received a survey from Blizzard about wow and why I wasn't playing, and what things I'd like to see that could bring me back. They had a lot of spots to fill in things in your own words and the those sections specifically asked you to be as detailed as possible. As a non-raiding, non-competitive, casual player, you can be sure I gave them a lot to read.

Whether or not such feedback will amount to anything is anyone's guess though.

That would be the worst possible choice. The majority of players who stopped playing are not going to return or care, and the small minority of players who do wait for that mythical expansion to bring the spark back are probably easily outnumbered by players who have stopped playing, but are still invested in hating the game.

At best you might get some good ideas, but mostly it would probably just be nostalgia pandering and players giving non-constructive feedback like fire all the devs, or remove levelling/open world and make raids twice as long.

I disagree. As someone who would come back with the right changes in design philosophy, I think asking for feedback from me and those like me is a worthwhile endeavor. It's not enough to just try and stop the hemorrhaging of players. They need to at least try to recoup some of those who left.

[Orwell7]

To be honest, endgame progression besides gear CAN be fun.

To evolve the world around us should be an integral part of an MMO, be it seasonal or not. They tried to do this via AP and Renown, but they were character-specific.
What we tie these power upgrades to WORLD events like the opening of AQ gates?

This way you, the player, can contribute to defeat the current big baddy.

For example, freeing your 2nd soulbind could be tied to some hand-in quests, where the quest items came from Dungeons, Raids and WQs.
Then everyone on your server can get it at, for example, week 3. No need to quest on every alt you have.

The same way with conduits, legendaries, and so on.
Legos can be tied to a Q item from Twisting Corridors - 500 players defeating TC can unlock 1 specific legendary for every spec (like, the EQ lego for Ele Shamans).
Of course there should be a weekly X items auto-contributing for low population servers.

This way active players can still feel useful, they can bang their heads on grinding it out, but alts and players without that much time in their hands won't feel behind!

Oh and this could make the WF race even more interesting, because Blizz could control what power level they "let" players grind out on Week1, Week2, and so on. Just like the Venthyr Boomy lego if you remember.

[Gaidax]

Didn't it serve it's purpose? Cause some drama so Blizzard can pay a couple PR people to say "Look we tried it your way, we tried listening to you, the players, but you fucked it up didn't you, guess we'll have to make more borrowed power systems and timegates."

I don't think people should be instantly assuming some sort of giga conspiracy about every single thing. It's a tad paranoid really.

As I see it - WoW team decision makers genuinely want some sort of productive discussion starting without the usual unwashed masses turning it into a shitshow by the third thread post, as observed in standard forums. The idea is pretty good and good natured too - it's not some super secret "we tried" plan.

I'm just a bit on a skeptic side there, because my brain has been trained to be on the skeptic side by the community and by the team's all over the place performance.