"...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."
That is a long way of saying "I don't have any evidence."
Notice that I didn't say anything about 80/20. I simply asked you how you determined that the raiders were the 20, which you clearly cannot demonstrate or you would have. We have no evidence that this is the case, and we can make up reasons all we want for either side, but without data it is pointless and obnoxious for you to speak with such unearned confidence. I'll just make up reasons I am right: RPers are the real 20 because they are more likely to buy cosmetics, name changes, etc.. Do I have data? Nope, but it FEEEELS right so I can declare it is true!
Oh, let me guess "It feeeeeels right" only works for you. How convenient.
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Rigid adherence to things like the Pareto principle is what happens when people have a lot of experience with business classes and not a lot of experience with actual business. But it's not worth arguing it with people like that. It's a religious fervor for them.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
I'm not disagreeing. Hell we have evidence to support this. Back in Cata when the dungeons and raids first came out everyone cried about how hard it was (after a ton of crying about how easy it was in Wrath) and Ghostcrawler made his Get good post. People basically went "fuck this" and left in numbers that would have been WoD level if the additions to LFR and Ghostcrawler apology didn't happen.
Raiding has always been been their top priority since vanilla.
I mean, pretty much all the new content added in vanilla was raid content.
The game had gotten a bit more to do beside that since then, but raiding is still baby #1 to them.
And it's not hard to see when you look at how dead and neglected the rest of the game (maybe less so M+) and the world is.
We've got reasonably good data, and it isnt even close to that high:
https://cyberpost.co/warcraft/only-1...pate-in-raids/
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
Part of the issue was Wrath was dogshit, face roll easy. Like you literally just ran straight to the end bosses and aoed shit as you were running.
And Cata dungeons were completely different and required CC, etc.
I liked it, but it's like going from hello kitty island to dark souls. It was a different game.
The Cata dungeons and overall vibe of the expansion weren't good either. Everything felt half baked and bland, which factors into people leaving.
Not to mention its the first expansion to start with LFG, which killed server communities.
Last edited by Mojo03; 2022-01-05 at 08:36 PM.
so reps are no longer progressive because they don’t give gear even if they give something just as relevant to power progression like with the gem sockets on SL?
dungeons are still a progression source changing it from heroic to M+ Really doesn’t matter it’s just nit picking.Non-M+ dungeons are no longer a progression source.
I’m comparing the two cars as they are/were. Your pining over the old care and trying to come up with what it could be in a ideal world.No, this is like me saying "I like the tires on my old car so I'm going to swap them with my new car" and you keep insisting that because my new car is red and the old car is blue that my idea is crazy and can't be possible.
it’s not at all a change in organizing you’d need hubs, new quest text, multiple areas with multiple sets of quest ect.It wouldn't require any new content be added. This is just a change in organization. The idea that it would be prohibitively expensive is just weird.
At the moment I think any given area has 2/3 quest which isn’t even close to how many daily hubs gave normally.
Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-01-05 at 08:38 PM.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
Would be amazed if LFR participation is that high these days. Seem totally pointless since all that seems to drop is the Shards of Blahblahblah. I only do Sylvanas on my hunters to try get the quiver tmog. Done it since you could on my ally hunter and few weeks after on my horde and the only loot i have even seen is the shards. The few full runs i did had the same story. No actual loot 99% of the time just shards. I doubt many people go back. Even today when i think most people get it done the ally que was just over a hour and the horde one was 40 mins. Guess it could just be my realm but even on the weekends the wait times are insane.
this opinion is simply factualy wrong,raiding has never been less important....back in vanila/tbc it was all that mattered for character progression,now you can get similar progression with m+,pvp and in legion even world quests could randomly give you mythic raiding ilvl
Reps used to often give BiS gear.
It matters because M+ is an entirely different gameplay mode based on challenge and scaling. It's not a casual gameplay mode. It's more comparable to raiding.dungeons are still a progression source changing it from heroic to M+ Really doesn’t matter it’s just nit picking.
it’s not at all a change in organizing you’d need hubs, new quest text, multiple areas with multiple sets of quest ect.I’m comparing the two cars as they are/were. Your pining over the old care and trying to come up with what it could be in a ideal world.
At the moment I think any given area has 2/3 quest which isn’t even close to how many daily hubs gave normally.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say to convert SL to this. I'm saying this is how they should design it going forward, and should have done it in the first place.
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This is a trivial problem to solve in game design. It's amazing to me how wow-brain has made so many people think this is some unsolvable timeless mystery.
1. Make all content give a currency that lets you upgrade gear.
2. Make hard content reward tons of that currency.
3. Give the currency a weekly cap.
Problem solved.
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The class quest chains were huge. Nothing like that ever happened again until legion, or did you whine that legion advertised class halls and artifacts and class quests are primary features?
If you think the entire battleground system, more dungeons than any expansion ever added post-launch, etc. is just trivial content, I don't really know what to tell you except "grow up and learn to admit when you are wrong".
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
So is it not progress unless its BIS? But even if you want to say yes they more or less still do as you can make a piece BIS with sockets and the like.
gonna have to fully reject this notion mythic plus isn’t comparable to raiding and you can progress it casually even if you might not hit the tippy top.It matters because M+ is an entirely different gameplay mode based on challenge and scaling. It's not a casual gameplay mode. It's more comparable to raiding.
then it’s more time/money then what we have/had and I don’t think they’d invest in it.I didn't say to convert SL to this. I'm saying this is how they should design it going forward, and should have done it in the first place.
Mabye in a different game with a different fan base it’s a easy solution but something like this wouldn’t work with how people play wow, it would just be the maw of souls in legion all over again but with far more rage.This is a trivial problem to solve in game design. It's amazing to me how wow-brain has made so many people think this is some unsolvable timeless mystery.
1. Make all content give a currency that lets you upgrade gear.
2. Make hard content reward tons of that currency.
3. Give the currency a weekly cap.
Problem solved.
Blizzard could do it of course but I don’t think they’d have the guts or if they tied they would give in to fan back lash and revert it.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
My problem with this is that time is only a tool used for measurement. So if time is your how you determine casual you need a to explain how it does that. It may not be a fixed amount of for all players but it needs to have some measurable quantity ie % of free time spent or time running actual content. Also skill has nothing to do with my proposal to how to define casual, the worst player in the world can be hardcore and the best can be casual.
I'd also say if you are pushing yourself into doing things that aren't fun in order to to grow, you are not treating those other mmos with a casual mindset but actually a hardcore(if this is the word we want to use thats opposite of casual) one. A casual's only goal should be enjoyment of the game they are playing and for different players that will be different levels of content. But as soon as they start doing content they don't want to obtain a longer goal of growth its no longer casual play. I point back to my previous posts about 1 night a week mythic raiders and 10+ hour a week players that only herb and talk in trade chat. Assuming same irl schedules which of these play styles is hardcore or casual. I'm currently playing about 2.5 hours of wow a week but I'm full clearing mythic SoD while its on farm am I a casual?