Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Edge-]

And of course I'm not going to sit here and sift through the internet compiling all these studies

"C'mon guy, just trust me."

I'm not out here claiming hundreds of peer-reviewed studies while being unable to produce a single one.

[Bigbazz]

"C'mon guy, just trust me."

I'm not out here claiming hundreds of peer-reviewed studies while being unable to produce a single one.

I produced the Israeli study, but honestly the study you posted to prove me wrong did the opposite, since it shows strong natural immunity clearly.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101

Some of the common UK discussion points here, more about weighing up natural immunity and protection vs vaccine side effects that might make you triggered though, but it's the BMJ so have at it.

But the studies kept coming. A National Institutes of Health (NIH) funded study from La Jolla Institute for Immunology found “durable immune responses” in 95% of the 200 participants up to eight months after infection.13 One of the largest studies to date, published in Science in February 2021, found that although antibodies declined over 8 months, memory B cells increased over time, and the half life of memory CD8+ and CD4+ T cells suggests a steady presence.9

Real world data have also been supportive.14 Several studies (in Qatar,15 England,16 Israel,17 and the US18) have found infection rates at equally low levels among people who are fully vaccinated and those who have previously had covid-19. Cleveland Clinic surveyed its more than 50 000 employees to compare four groups based on history of SARS-CoV-2 infection and vaccination status.18 Not one of over 1300 unvaccinated employees who had been previously infected tested positive during the five months of the study.

"Some people think natural immunity matters"

Edge - Defending this position with his life.

[Machismo]

not sure if srs.

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Really not sure if srs

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That would work if only they suffered the consequences. But... contagious diseases and overwhelmed hospitals tend to not care.

Avoid those people like the literal plague.

[Forogil]

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...nity-data-show

I did, and it's got plenty of links to the studies and data they cite.

However, one of the problems with all such studies is that there is a major confounder - the behavior of the individuals.

If someone behaves in a risk-prone way they are more likely to get infected once and also a second time (well, unless they die the first time).
A more risk-averse behavior may cause them to avoid both infections (and get vaccinated).
Additionally those behaviors are somewhat "contagious" as people hang out with like-minded individuals - which makes the difference even more pronounced; so as you later write it's difficult to get reliable conclusions for how much protection they actually provide.

But that just makes it even more important to vaccinate the ones that have been infected.

There's nobody out there that I've seen that's remotely credible saying, "If you have natural immunity your fine, whatever. No vaccine needed."

That checks out.

[Lenonis]

Avoid those people like the literal plague.

Not everyone has that luxury. Especially because you don't know who those people are.

[Forogil]

I produced the Israeli study, but honestly the study you posted to prove me wrong did the opposite, since it shows strong natural immunity clearly.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101

That article doesn't say that natural immunity is as good, just that it may be good enough.

What the author fails to realize is that the US public health don't seem to like such complicated trade-offs for the common good (the point was to vaccinate the uninfected first since they would benefit more); one can also see that in many countries in Europe that it was one age group followed by another (to prioritize the ones most at risk of dying; so generally from oldest to youngest - but with notable exceptions) whereas that pattern was less clear in the US.

I've heard people use that logic to delay booking a bit, and then later book it in Europe - whereas US posters here have seen to be more individualistic.

There are also multiple risks with such a complicated trade-off (people might forget to get it later) - and it wasn't needed that much in the US: the vaccine rollout was faster than in Europe so there was less need to prioritize.

[Machismo]

Not everyone has that luxury. Especially because you don't know who those people are.

It's really not hard to tell, especially in your social circles.

[Lenonis]

It's really not hard to tell, especially in your social circles.

It's great to know there are people who only socialize. Fantastic that people don't have to go to work, get groceries, or do other things that require interacting with the general public. Pandemic over!

[Edge-]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...id-tests-usps/

US is gearing up to send out 500M test kits to houses across the country, working with USPS. This isn't blind sending, sounds like they'll set up a site where you can request one and the USPS will deliver it directly to your home for free.

Is this what covid leadership looks like? I mean, this is great the way they're handling it. Blind-sending would lead to millions upon millions of tests tossed in the trash or never picked up, and those who will request tests are more likely to have enough brain cells to follow the directions to self test (it's easy, but you'd be surprised how many folks have trouble with it). Should hopefully help a lot of folks self-quarantining at home after possible exposure (got multiple folks in my family in this condition right now, including myself though I'm a third-degree exposure so extremely minimal chance) who can't get outta the house or order one from the store. Also should hopefully net some more data if they report their status into the county etc.

[Machismo]

It's great to know there are people who only socialize. Fantastic that people don't have to go to work, get groceries, or do other things that require interacting with the general public. Pandemic over!

Wear a mask and stay away from people at the grocery store. Avoid co-workers or employers who arent vaccinated.

[PACOX]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...id-tests-usps/

US is gearing up to send out 500M test kits to houses across the country, working with USPS. This isn't blind sending, sounds like they'll set up a site where you can request one and the USPS will deliver it directly to your home for free.

Is this what covid leadership looks like? I mean, this is great the way they're handling it. Blind-sending would lead to millions upon millions of tests tossed in the trash or never picked up, and those who will request tests are more likely to have enough brain cells to follow the directions to self test (it's easy, but you'd be surprised how many folks have trouble with it). Should hopefully help a lot of folks self-quarantining at home after possible exposure (got multiple folks in my family in this condition right now, including myself though I'm a third-degree exposure so extremely minimal chance) who can't get outta the house or order one from the store. Also should hopefully net some more data if they report their status into the county etc.

Oh man if I was an anti-vaxxer I would eat this up. It's a gold mine. There's even a movie that comes to mind for the ones who spread the control theories.

Back to reality though. Its good. I wish the USPC could be used in said capacity more often, but this is good. I could cry and moan about this should have been done soon and about previously bad messaging but that's ridiculous when the course has been corrected.

One thing I will say they might as well go with the mouth swabs since you're dealing with people who never any sort of diagnostic test in their life. Rapid tests come with an understood false positive/negative (usually negative) rate. Oral tests are less accurate (last time I checked) but better when people might straight up mess up a nasal swab. Something is better than nothing.

[MCMLXXXII]

Wear a mask and stay away from people at the grocery store. Avoid co-workers or employers who arent vaccinated.

Did all of the above. Still got covid at a vaccination site.

[Breccia]

"bullshit by bullshit standards" is what you're calling normal practices

No.

Bullshit by bullshit standards, is when an anti-vaxxer, such as the person in the post I was referring to, calling natural immunity "double vaccinated". When it is not.

And of course I'm not going to sit here and sift through the internet compiling all these studies

Of course not. You'd find out you were wrong.

Because literally the first hit is Johns Hopkins which immediately shows the "double vaccinated" is so lame an argument, it takes it behind the shed and unloads a double-barrel into it. Then, glue.

Anyone claiming natural immunity is "double vaccinated" is just flat-out wrong. Oh, and as a reminder, Djokovic didn't have omicron or delta. He tested positive in June 2020, six months before delta. His claim of immunity is just flat-out double false.

Oh, and you can stop saying "vaccination after infection". He didn't get vaccinated. I don't know why you think you're defending him, but the points you are bringing up don't help, so you're not defending him. Kind of makes me wonder why you bothered getting everyone else here proving that you're wrong for the last three pages when you didn't even back up the point you were trying to make.

[Santti]

What's this talk about natural immunity? You mean the resistance you get from actually having caught the disease? From a disease that might kill you, or otherwise fuck you up for the rest of your life? That, versus the vaccine?

[PACOX]

Catching COVID does not guarantee that your body has produced any lasting antibodies. Theres tons of evidence that backs up the claim. COVID is not a virus that your body gets once and never gets again. The vaccines are giving you body a private lesson in learning how to deal with COVID. So far mRNA does so a good job that your body can still recognize the trick questions (the variants).

[Flarelaine]

Avoid those people like the literal plague.

The past two years have demonstrated how little effort people make to avoid the plague.

[Machismo]

Did all of the above. Still got covid at a vaccination site.

That is ironic.

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The past two years have demonstrated how little effort people make to avoid the plague.

Honestly, I have enjoyed the last two years. My family has tried more new things and learned new skills that I ever thought we would. Filling in the deficiencies of distance learning was rough, but it does make people realize what is actually important to learn. I'm sure my kids have been stunted in their developmental learning of English poetry, but they all learned how to cook, and even do home repairs. arks see

I'm not a person who needs a lot of close contact with others, so the social distancing wasn't a problem for me. I get that many are social butterflies, who love bars and clubs... but I can go forever without them. I have eaten out at a sit-down restaurant twice (I think) since the pandemic started. Sure, I still have a risk of infection, mainly from my wife and kids, but we all mitigate it.

[Forogil]

What's this talk about natural immunity? You mean the resistance you get from actually having caught the disease? From a disease that might kill you, or otherwise fuck you up for the rest of your life? That, versus the vaccine?

Yes, people are discussing that - but missing that there are two parts to this:

How protected are you from future infection after a past infection (assuming you didn't die)? That's a valid scientific question; some vaccines for other diseases give a lot better protection than infection (HPV) - some give less.

What policies should we have for people that have been infected? At the start it made some sense to treat them similarly as vaccinated, but once we have vaccines in large numbers that case is weaker, and the downside with treated infected as kind-of-vaccinated is that it "rewards" behavior we as a society want to discourage.

Discouragement is not just the risk-aspect; additionally there has also been multiple times when testing capacity has been limited in several countries - so there are lots of persons who believed they had covid but didn't get tested. If getting tested had some award that means some will try to cut to the line of the testing just to get treated as vaccinated afterwards; that's not good either.

There are also multiple vaccines that give different levels of protection; countries normally treat all they have allowed as the same from the perspective of vaccine-passport even if they know that some are less effective.

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That is ironic.

But not unprecedented.

The Russian vaccine-trial for Sputnik had two persons dying of covid-19 that they got around the time of vaccination - back then I speculated that they got infected during the vaccination (or when getting to/from the site).

[Poopymonster]

What's this talk about natural immunity? You mean the resistance you get from actually having caught the disease? From a disease that might kill you, or otherwise fuck you up for the rest of your life? That, versus the vaccine?

There are still people who think vaccines in children cause autism. In their mind, they would rather have a dead baby from a preventable disease than autistic. Even though vaccines don't cause autism.

[Breccia]

You mean the resistance you get from actually having caught the disease?

Don't forget, people who are touting the benefits of natural resistance are still alive. The people who caught it and died, they aren't making that argument.

Because they died. From the disease.

Seriously though the people who want this argument to be true are hoping they can just pop some malaria medicine, horse dewormer, or admittely that one pill that's showing promise and...just remain symptomatic spreaders with bad but not fatal symtoms.

Catching COVID does not guarantee that your body has produced any lasting antibodies.

And then there's this. Like I said before, Djokovic did not have delta or omicron. His natural antibodies are better than no defense at all, but his body isn't on high alert for the two current dominant strains.

He is not "double vaccinated". That is bullshit even by bullshit standards, and anyone defending him is just embazzering themselves.

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NYTimes tracker -- I will continue to use that, I think having multiple sources report basically the same thing lends validity to them all plus I paid for the sub Imma use it dammit -- puts the new 7-daily average at 610,000 and due to rise.

We haven't peaked yet.