1. #2781
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I honestly don't understand how like I said there are so many issues from an objective standpoint without even looking at the issues in terms of adaptation.
    no offense but you seem quite a bit biased so I can't say id put much faith in your "objective" standpoints.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #2782
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    Just realize you guys are arguing with someone who thinks Star Citizen is legit about what constitutes a good final product.
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Star citizen current game is better than anything else availabe in the same genre and its not finished yet, at least have some common sense and know at least a little of what you are talking about.
    Oh my god, I thought the name was familiar.
    One of the Star Citizen life-liner trolls. Honestly, this is kind of a relief, because now I know it's not for real.
    How do I know? Because there is no living organism that could handle all that copium.
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    i am no weeb. i am just a connoisseur of fine waifus.

  3. #2783
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The show is good and does its job as entertainment, the books for most ppl provide no entertainment at all and can be said to have questionable quality in many areas.
    What the flying fuck does that even mean?

    The books provide no entertainment for most people? Newsflash you lackwit: The TV series doesn't either. Neither medium provides entertainment to anyone who doesn't consume the product.....

    Also, a questionable meal by a world class chef is still going to be better than the best shit a hack cook produces. Nobody has ever argued that the Books were the pinnacle of perfect Fantasy writing. Still doesn't change that they are vastly superior to the TV series.

  4. #2784
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    What the flying fuck does that even mean?
    This is why I asked his age. His posts seem pre-pubescent...literally. Much of his posts hold the same logic a child uses.

  5. #2785
    Stood in the Fire Mazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    An adaptation is a version of the story from the same world not a direct copy of it so yes they did adapt it just fine, book fans are not the sole autority on what is better or not, the quality of the books is not the greatest with it having plenty of flaws on its own. No matter how good the tv series is or not you can not please everyone. The fact is the tv series is good.
    And you would be wrong. The fact is YOU think the series is good and a good adaptation. I disagree - especially with the latter part - and you have provided zero reason to change my mind.

  6. #2786
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    An adaptation is a version of the story from the same world not a direct copy of it
    By that logic, the Lord of the Ring's memes where Aragorn ties Frodo to a rock and launches him and the ring over the border to Mordor and into Mount Doom constitute an "adaptation" of the books, and therefore are "awesome adaptations there of" because once something has been established as an "adaptation", it's quality can not be questioned........

  7. #2787
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    Lets be honest those that enjoy the show probably fall into the latter.

    1. Those that haven't read the books
    2. Those who were not looking for an adaptation
    3. Those who hated the books.

    Personally while there were some good things in this show like the cast (for the most part) and the set designs which are petty cool. The story was anything but an adaptation. Lord of the Rings left out and added a bit, but it still felt like Lord of the Rings.... Amazon's Wheel of Time doesn't feel like the book Wheel of Time. It has even said they wanted to make the show more adult. Why? Why has every fantasy now gotta be gritty and edgy. We can blame Game of Thrones for these damn trends. Wheel of Time isn't Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones is 'Grim Dark', Wheel of Time is 'High Fantasy'. If they start making the next middle earth series down this path, I am so done.

    I watched the movie Legend the other day with Tim Curry great movie, very camp, I loved it. I miss the magic and wonder in fantasy like that. Sure its not all rainbows and butterflies in Wheel of Time, Wheel of Time has some damn dark moments, but the fact that the creators of the show were basically like 'we got to make it more adult' as if to say the original was like some kids episode of Bob the Builder. Like that pisses me off. the last episode of Wheel of Time was so dark not in theme just literally dark, like I couldn't see anythign lol.

    I think they should have been more faithful to the books, and the show should have had been longer in episodes to cover book 1. It felt so rushed. God bless the cast for working through the material they were given because I enjoyed the actors at least, but the story was hard to stomach. Wheel of Time being a series was a match made in heaven you could very well keep faithful to book 1 all in one season. and I don't mind if they took some aspects from book 2 into season 1 that's fine. But if you are gonna make it this short just for book 1 you shouldn't be trying to do that. Also missing over everything with Baerlon kinda urked me. Its one of the moments I remember most from Book 1 so instead we get this rushed incorporation of trying to weave it while they are on the road, like the dream and the white cloaks. Except with rats its bats.... was that also trying to squeeze in a Draghkar reference?

    and because I have to say it, I am not telling others they are wrong for enjoying it, if you enjoy it, good for you I envy you because I wanted to as well.
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-01-08 at 02:20 AM.
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  8. #2788
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    This is clearly exaggeration. If you wouldn't still recognize the White tower, Ajahs, Sisters, One power, False Dragons, City names, etc
    I don't think you grasp the degree at which various details have been altered changed or whatever to allow for the story to be told as it was...

    the one power isn't the Saidin or Saidar in this adaptation... the implied state of reincarnation for the dragon renders much of the now 'fallable' prophecy rather pointless and would make one question why male channellers are so forbidden. Again... If I wasn't explicitely being told that these things were intended to be certain parts of the story I would have assumed this was an entirely different setting and someone was ripping off the IP like Marvel and DC do for their various characters

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    then you weren't much of a fan of Wheel of Time prior to that would enable you to recognize those things in the first place.
    Rather it's because I actually read the material that I KNOW that things were changed to such a degree...

    But then again... I'm someone who understands why this should have been present rather than this

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It isn't a faithful adaptation but it isn't 100% new that just uses the name Wheel of Time as a title and nothing else.
    highlighted part is an understatement of the extreme degree.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    It is amazing the lengths people will lie to themselves to pretend the show is good, when actually it is very mediocre at best, and compared to the books a steaming pile of shit. I am not going to be thankful we got an adaptation when the adaptation is garbage, I would rather have never had a tv show than get one like this.

    The books were great stories, the tv show are a barely coherent mess.
    OVerall I have to say the series is actually decent. Better than I expected... but it's still a shame what they decided needed changing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You can use the wheel of time world and create and story you want with it, its still the wheel of time, the story in the books is not the only way you can tell a story using the same world as the wheel of time. You are just upset you are not getting the exact same story from the books.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They can adapt and create any story they want using the wheel of time world, it doesnt have to be a 1 for 1 copy of the books and doesnt need to be, its still the wheel of time regardless of what route the story is taking.
    You seem to have the wrong idea here. You can tell whatever story you like using the setting (assuming you have the rights to do so) but that doesn't make it the "wheel of time"

    The Wheel of Time series and the story it is known for would remain the story of the Dragon being reborn in the third age and the trials and tribulations faced by Rand Al'thor in his journey... if that is not the story being told it's not "the wheel of time" and altering characters and themes is just straight up fanfiction or retconning something and would be such a loose way to define "adaptation" that we might as well not even bother calling it such.

  9. #2789
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    no offense but you seem quite a bit biased so I can't say id put much faith in your "objective" standpoints.
    No offense but even non book fans have talked about the pacing costuming and lighting issues.

  10. #2790
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    the one power isn't the Saidin or Saidar in this adaptation...
    Yes it is. Male channelers are forbidden for the same reason as the books, the taint on Saidin. The Dragon has had two changes, propchies were not clear on gender and Lews was called the Dragon Reborn. Even with those changes it is still recognizable as Wheel of Time. It is a different story but clearly not someone ripping off the IP. It uses the same foundation and changes things as needed for its adaptation.

    There are plenty of things with small or minor changes that make them recognizable from the books. You are being dishonest or don't recall the books very well if you think there is nothing recognizable at all. Could the sword have been more ornate then what appeared? Sure but it is such a minor thing to complain about.

    Robert Jordan did state that the Tam and Lans swords were based on the Katana and Souba style of swords. So the show just went with a more plain style and what the author was basing them on anyways. But hey you imply you have more understanding of the books because you know why a sword should look different. Congrats, I guess.

    Lan and Rand's swords are loosely based on the katana, and another style of sword I had never heard of before (sooba? something like that anyway. SilverWarder might know) and that others were based on medieval European styles. He said that blademasters don't follow one particular historical style of fighting, but that different blademasters have different styles depending on their culture of origin. https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=Katana
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-01-08 at 03:17 AM.
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  11. #2791
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Robert Jordan did state that the Tam and Lans swords were based on the Katana and Souba style of swords. So the show just went with a more plain style and what the author was basing them on anyways. But hey you imply you have more understanding of the books because you know why a sword should look different. Congrats, I guess.
    He can have said that. He still also wrote:

    Slowly Tam drew the weapon; firelight played along the gleaming length. It was nothing at all like the plain, rough blades Rand had seen in the hands of merchant's guards. No gems or gold adorned it, but it seemed grand to him, nonetheless. The blade very slightly curved and sharp on only one edge, bore another heron etched into the steel. Short quillons, worked to look like braid, flanked the hilt. It seemed almost fragile compared to the swords of the merchants' guards; most of those were double-edged, and thick enough to chop down a tree.

    Chapter 5.. there's a couple more paragraphs that stretch out and also include more herons on hilt and scabbard but to really lump this down into "katana" is par for the course for "barely recognizable material. BTW regardless of that interview. There are many more blades in the world that hold a curve and single edge or look fragile compared to basic blades.

    Not sure what a 'souba' is since the only thing that seems to come up is a split blade or final fantasy when I'm searching. unless there's a misspelling.

    Fact remains these kinds of alterations are exactly why there's issues and it's not just one or two little things it's stuff that is plain and clear in the dried ink

    edit:
    also seen this version floating around and some arguing that it was the design RJ himself judged worthy but the original site that made such claims seems to no longer have it.

    Still between the few real world renditions and the cover art on multiple books... one would think they'd have gone a different route

    edit again:

    Lan with his swords
    Rand holding a horn with sword on hip

    Both also should be thought to have been approved by Robert Jordan... sheesh, to think a rusty looking Katana was what got selected.
    Last edited by mickybrighteyes; 2022-01-08 at 04:19 AM.

  12. #2792
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    Not sure what a 'souba' is since the only thing that seems to come up is a split blade or final fantasy when I'm searching. unless there's a misspelling.
    It's probably a misspelling, as the only thing that makes logical sense is referring to Katana and Tsuba (the Tsuba being the traditional square/circular guardpiece that is slotted between the hilt and the blade on typical katana).

    Which is Ironic, because as you specifically noted Jordan himself described the sword as having quillons, which is typically western/european thing, and not normally associated with Katana style blades.

    But yeah, more evidence of shitty adaptation when they basically just go "well Jordan based the swords on Katana's so we will just use a bog standard Katana instead of actually making it source accurate because we are too fucking lazy to do that".

  13. #2793
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    It's probably a misspelling, as the only thing that makes logical sense is referring to Katana and Tsuba (the Tsuba being the traditional square/circular guardpiece that is slotted between the hilt and the blade on typical katana).
    I thought that as well but I still saw something from some media that suggests a reference to some existing design. Overall I generally assumed most the sword forms were inspired by eastern styles so some degree of japanese influence was inevitable.... but then literally all the media had more western styled designs overall like why some people thought it was something like a kreigmesser instead

  14. #2794
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    Fact remains these kinds of alterations are exactly why there's issues and it's not just one or two little things it's stuff that is plain and clear in the dried ink
    Again you are making a big deal out of a sword. It isn't that big of a deal and it is clear that the show isn't going in a 1:1 adaptation. Let it go already. They are still going based on general concept from the books or notes (and words) of the Author.

    There is also two "Heron marked sword with scabbard" donated with some of his works/stuff to the College of Charleston but I don't think a picture exists online. It could be that is closer to what the show used or not. It doesn't really matter if it isn't an exact copy from the text though.

    It could even be not wanting to spend a large chunk of the budget on a sword that gets destroyed in book two and presumably season 2 of the show depending on what plots and themes they have shuffled around.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-01-08 at 05:12 AM.
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  15. #2795
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Again you are making a big deal out of a sword. It isn't that big of a deal and it is clear that the show isn't going in a 1:1 adaptation.
    it's far from an adaptation at this point maybe reimagining is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Let it go already. They are still going based on general concept from the books or notes (and words) of the Author. What is next a 100-page essay on why the shade of blue for the Blue Ajah isn't accurate for the books?
    How about a red ajah with a boy toy in town that wasn't part of the book series. Or an alternate exile that wasn't required except they had to make some hamfisted politicing bit with the leader that wasn't a ruler.

    Again, the sword is just one part. It's that we can't go a scene without finding something that is drastically different. Whether it's Logain seeing Nyneave channeling or Moiraine having a not so friendly aside with Elaida about a man (something I don't think Elaida ever touched in the series)

  16. #2796
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    it's far from an adaptation at this point maybe reimagining is better.
    Which is still an adaptation even if it is "a different turning of the wheel". There was at least one Red Ajah sister who was attracted to men so having a secret lover (or you know maybe a dark friend co-conspirator.) is not much of a stretch from the source material. Of course the sword is just one part but the more parts you point out as different the more your earlier claims of "it not being recongizable" falls apart.

    If you can notice things that are different then you are still recongizing it, or its lack, from the show. There are also things you've pointed out as different that actually were not (like when you said the one power doesn't have Saidin and Saidar on the show or at least implied it). You are looking for every little detail to nitpick as if it proves anything.

    No one is disputing that it isn't a faithful or 1:1 adaptation. It became clear around the 4th episode, if not earlier, that there would be some substantial changes. You can either accept them and move on or be forever enslaved by disdain. Despite its flaws and non-faithfulness it is still an okay fantasy show. It is fitting for a 7/10 show maybe even a 6/10.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-01-08 at 05:38 AM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  17. #2797
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Which is still an adaptation even if it is "a different turning of the wheel". There was at least one Red Ajah sister who was attracted to men so having a secret lover (or you know maybe a dark friend co-conspirator.)
    The issue there isn't the "red ajah sister" having a boy toy in town. It's more that it's "Elaida"... at that point in the series I was wondering if hell... is this Logain actually also gonna be Taim?

  18. #2798
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It could even be not wanting to spend a large chunk of the budget on a sword that gets destroyed in book two and presumably season 2 of the show depending on what plots and themes they have shuffled around.
    Lol wut? It' a prop sword, not a freaking masterwork by an actual swordsmith. They probably spend more on the shows catering budget for a weeks worth of shoots than it would cost a prop master to make a heron-mark blade prop......

  19. #2799
    It's not just the sword. Someone with some knowledge of bows was comparing GoT and WoT and pointed out (besides it being the wrong sort of bow and Rand not knowing how to use it) that Rand's bow was a cheap rattan model designed for LARP, worth $50-100 at most.

  20. #2800
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Rand's bow was a cheap rattan model designed for LARP, worth $50-100 at most.
    They do have a $10m budget, but they need all the money for hair dressers and teeth whiteners to get that perfect The CW look.

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