1. #27181
    Vaccine mandates for UK health workers hits in April. I can see a u-turn coming though as they can't afford to lose the staff in the NHS.


  2. #27182
    We've got vaccine mandates for health care here in Australia, and not just health care. The state of WA has mandates that cover 75% of the workforce. The loss of workers was very, very small. Not even half a percent. The health care sector is loosing far more workers to burnout as well as being off sick than they did from anti-vaxxers quitting.

    And on a note of just how fast omicron is spreading, modelling is predicting that in 10 days time, 8-10% of the population could be active cases. Luckily we are running at 90%+ vaccination rates, but it is still going to put a massive strain on health care, not to mention all the other vital services. Shops are already finding it hard to have enough active staff to deliver and stock goods.

  3. #27183
    Twins Igor and Grichka Bogdanoff, controversial French TV stars, die of COVID-19 after refusing vaccines

  4. #27184
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Headline seems wholly accurate. They're arguing against vaccine mandates, they tested positive for COVID, they're now presenting those arguments remotely. I'm not sure where they grey part is meant to be?
    I don’t know if they are personally vaccinated or not and didn’t care enough to look, so I didn’t want to potentially call them out over something they didn’t do (or rather did do).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    What's grey about it?
    If the lawyers are vaxxed or not, didn’t look

  5. #27185
    Quote Originally Posted by caractacus View Post
    Vaccine mandates for UK health workers hits in April. I can see a u-turn coming though as they can't afford to lose the staff in the NHS.

    nah fuck that cunt, if he doesnt get the vaccine he can fuck off.

  6. #27186
    Thoughts, prayers, and lawls

    Anti-vaxxer podcaster dies from COVID-19 after contracting virus at far-right Reawaken America conference

    Anti-vaxxer Doug Kuzma, 61, who ran the FROG news podcast network, has died on January 3 after contracting COVID-19 at a right-wing rally.

    Posts in the right-wing Telegram channel Frog News Network announced Kuzma's passing, Insider can confirm.

    In the channel, Kuzma had posted about having a fever of 102. His messages then stopped.

    Kuzma's daughter Amanda spoke to The Daily Beast about her father and said: "I really loved him, and I would do anything for him. He was a great father."

    Before he passed, a Frog News Telegram post said, "Doug needs heavy, heavy prayers," noting that he was unconscious and unable to respond to calls or messages.

    According to pro-Trump attorney Lin Wood, Kuma contracted the virus at the ReAwaken America event in Dallas from December 9-11, 2021, where Wood was a speaker.

    He posted to Telegram in later December that, "Doug is suffering from Covid after returning from a recent patriot conference. Anna [a friend of Kuzma] informs me that Doug has taken a turn for the worse," Wood wrote. "His lungs are not responding to treatment," reported the Daily Beast.

    When he was ill, Kuzma remained an outspoken critic of the COVID-19 vaccines. Writing on his Facebook and detailing his symptoms of COVID-19 - which he repeatedly insisted was bronchitis - someone told him to go and get a COVID test.

    "No way," he replied, "You must have lost your mind so they can kill me. And try to give me the jab. There's no way bro I'll die at the house before I go to the hospital." He added.

    On Christmas Eve, Kuzma was found unconscious at his home and was rushed to the ICU at Bon Secours Mary Immaculate Hospital in Newport News, Virginia, VICE reports. He did not respond to treatment.

    The event where Kuzma supposedly caught the virus saw speakers including MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell, the far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, and Eric Trump, according to the event's website.

    Some people left the ReAwaken America event suffering from a dry cough and shortness of breath. Rather than considering a COVID-19 outbreak, however, far-right influencers baselessly suggested these symptoms resulted from an anthrax attack at the event. Kieran Press-Reynolds has the full story.

    While vaccines have been available to the public since early 2021, several conservative podcasters and radio hosts who've expressed anti-vaccine sentiments have contracted COVID-19. At least seven of them died this year, including Phil Valentine, Marc Bernier, Doug Kuzma, and Pressley Stutts.
    "The customer is always right" is a nice way of saying "I will put up with your bullshit as long as you pay me"

  7. #27187
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    nah fuck that cunt, if he doesnt get the vaccine he can fuck off.
    Why would anyone want to have a doctor who doesn't believe in science?

    This is the most baffling part of it all... thinking that firing shitty doctors and nurses is somehow a bad thing.

    This is like getting pissed that the school district fired a bus driver who was drinking on the job.

  8. #27188
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    That would be the third time he has claimed to have had it. Its like natural immunity does nothing.
    Oh, I haven't heard that - when was the 2nd time?

    I noticed that he was supposed to headline Australian Open even before December 16th; so was the 2nd time in the last 6 months (which would be consistent with the alleged rules) or did he plan to get covid in the break from tennis around x-mas?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    I don’t know if they are personally vaccinated or not and didn’t care enough to look, so I didn’t want to potentially call them out over something they didn’t do (or rather did do).
    The linked story stated that one was vaccinated, but still got infected and mild symptoms, and didn't provide any details for the other lawyer.

    However, it is not that simple - even if the lawyers were vaccinated themselves they might have staff (and family) that wasn't vaccinated (kind of hard to argue that they must be vaccinated and still oppose a vaccine mandate), which may have helped the spread.

    And I don't know if a vaccine mandate is the best available solution (well, the best would be if people understood that they should get vaccinated without the need for any mandate).

  9. #27189
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Why would anyone want to have a doctor who doesn't believe in science?
    "Believing in science" != "Believing in government mandates" - or in blanket enforcement.

    After all his argument is
    ---
    "I got antibodies, i have worked on Covid ICU from the beginning, vaccine transmission reduction is 8 weeks for Delta, probably less for omicron, science isn't strong enough [for mandates]".
    "Maybe with omicron and changing picture there is possibility to reconsider, or at least include nuance like doctors with previous exposure and antibodies"
    "If you want to keep transmission protection from a booster, then you have to inject every staff member every month - which we aren't going to do"
    ---


    This is the most baffling part of it all... thinking that firing shitty doctors and nurses is somehow a bad thing.
    Every nurse and doctor fired is many people not saved if hospitals hit capacity. Basic logic.

    It isn't like there are crowds of qualified applicants just waiting to replace those that leave; ICU training isn't something you can seriously pick up in a week.

    Such doctor will likely save more then he will "kill" even in extreme case.

  10. #27190
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Such doctor is encouraging people to not get vaccinated and roll the dice with covid.
    He didn't.

    All he said that transmission reduction is unlikely to be significant for him in a hospital setting with antibodies, and natural antibody protection should be considered comparable to vaccine (and it certainly can wane like a vaccine too - that is still testable).

    Debatable, but not insane.

    That isn't "random doctor" either - by video claim he specifically worked with Covid ICU, so he should be quite aware of all risks - certainly more then any random member of public.

    I doubt he’s gonna save 100k in the rest of his career. He may well help that many die with his bullshit though.
    How many deaths do you put on a single doctor's opinion that concerned mandates specifically for people like him, unvaccinated but with antibodies? Entire UK worth of deaths?

    South Africa data seems to show that it is relatively safe bet; it would be different if his antibody status was unknown though.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2022-01-08 at 04:48 PM.

  11. #27191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Oh, I haven't heard that - when was the 2nd time?

    I noticed that he was supposed to headline Australian Open even before December 16th; so was the 2nd time in the last 6 months (which would be consistent with the alleged rules) or did he plan to get covid in the break from tennis around x-mas?

    - - - Updated - - -


    The linked story stated that one was vaccinated, but still got infected and mild symptoms, and didn't provide any details for the other lawyer.

    However, it is not that simple - even if the lawyers were vaccinated themselves they might have staff (and family) that wasn't vaccinated (kind of hard to argue that they must be vaccinated and still oppose a vaccine mandate), which may have helped the spread.

    And I don't know if a vaccine mandate is the best available solution (well, the best would be if people understood that they should get vaccinated without the need for any mandate).
    Nah man, pay em enough, you could get a lawyer to argue that the age of consent should be 5. And he wouldn't even be from Kentucky.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  12. #27192
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Such doctor is encouraging people to not get vaccinated and roll the dice with covid. I doubt he’s gonna save 100k in the rest of his career. He may well help that many die with his bullshit though.
    Yes, that's the main worry.

    Note that his specialty isn't viral infections, but anesthesia.

    However, there's likely more to the story. The idea that Sky News just happened to be filming that interaction seems unlikely.

    Obviously part of it is that Sajid Javid (as the rest of that government) isn't very competent, so going to a hospital to make a show of supporting NHS with vaccine mandate without checking with the hospital seems normal. But was the doctor normally working at the place Javid was supposed to visit, or did he make an effort to be there himself - or was he encouraged to do so by the TV crews?

  13. #27193
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Dude, that’s not how these assholes will spin it. They’ll say it’s unlikely to kill them and they will be better protected by catching covid. The vaccine is ineffective. Etc. Stop with the bullshit.
    Put it on "those assholes", not on relatively reasonable opinion doctor said when they were asked for comments on future government policy.

    Do you want your news filled with government yes-men? Do you think "those assholes" will somehow start believing them if government is never challenged?

  14. #27194
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Put it on "those assholes", not on relatively reasonable opinion doctor said when they were asked for comments on future government policy.

    Do you want your news filled with government yes-men? Do you think "those assholes" will somehow start believing them if government is never challenged?
    bit on the nose this coming from you.

    There is no reason for any healthy adult not to get vaccinated.

    The only 3 things i can think of for not getting vaccinated in the healthy adult category are :

    1. You spent too much time on facebook and antivax memes broke your brain
    2. You have no critical ability to assess threat
    3. both of those + you are a massive narcissist.

    Again that dickhead should get vaxxed or find a new job.

  15. #27195
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    If the lawyers are vaxxed or not, didn’t look
    One is vaxxed and boosted, the other refuses to say. There's nothing grey about it if you bothered actually reading.

  16. #27196
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I think responsible doctors would just get the jab and not sew distrust in vaccines…
    I think reasonable doctors should have enough competence to make judgements on case-by-case basis with data they have available without all-or-nothing. Even if sometimes they are wrong - "competence" doesn't mean "omniscience".

    Vaccine isn't cure-all; it has strengths and weaknesses. Most of strengths people expected based on traditional vaccines failed to materialize; omicron makes weakness of current vaccines in stopping spread and breakthrough infections even more obvious.

    By the time mandate is supposed to be actually enacted - by April 1st - judging by available data we will will be month or two past the peak.

  17. #27197
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    bit on the nose this coming from you.

    There is no reason for any healthy adult not to get vaccinated.

    The only 3 things i can think of for not getting vaccinated in the healthy adult category are :

    1. You spent too much time on facebook and antivax memes broke your brain
    2. You have no critical ability to assess threat
    3. both of those + you are a massive narcissist.
    I can think of one more: 4. You live a low-income country and there aren't vaccines available yet for you. That's a valid reason for many - but not in this case.

  18. #27198
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Vaccine isn't cure-all; it has strengths and weaknesses. Most of strengths people expected based on traditional vaccines failed to materialize; omicron makes weakness of current vaccines in stopping spread and breakthrough infections even more obvious.
    That's plain and simple vaccine disinformation.

    The main anticipated strength for vaccines was a reduction in hospitalizations and deaths. The mRNA vaccines do provide that to a significant degree - even against Omicron. Additionally they provide a reduction in infections; not as good as against Delta.

  19. #27199
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Vaccine isn't cure-all; it has strengths and weaknesses. Most of strengths people expected based on traditional vaccines failed to materialize; omicron makes weakness of current vaccines in stopping spread and breakthrough infections even more obvious.
    This is just straight up misinformation. The covid vaccine was never said to afford 100% protection against covid to start with. Not to mention that being vaccinated appears to make omicron fairly mild compared to folks who aren't vaccinated.

    Get this shit outta here.

  20. #27200
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    This is just straight up misinformation. The covid vaccine was never said to afford 100% protection against covid to start with. Not to mention that being vaccinated appears to make omicron fairly mild compared to folks who aren't vaccinated.
    Yes, and one of the reasons for that seems to be that the T-cell response is still strong against Omicron after being vaccinated.

    The limited effect of Omicron’s mutations on the T cell response suggests that vaccination or prior infection may still provide substantial protection from severe disease.
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....26.21268380v1
    Note that the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine seemed consistently better than past infection (with one exception where it was about even), even though those vaccinated were older - and thus likely had less well-working immune system. The doctor's talk about his anti-body protection against Omicron is also highly doubtful.

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