[TV] The Wheel of Time

[rhorle]

Dude....no one is denying that the Fableblades version is "more intricate" than the shows sword, what they're saying is that it is not "intricate" it's just more intricate than the one they used in the show.

Which is what I've said from the start. And yet that is what people have been arguing with me about.

The sword people wanted them to use would be a more intricate prop to make.

- - - Updated - - -

OF COURSE THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO. They are TWO DIFFERENT SWORDS. It's physically impossible for there NOT to be differences between them. This does not mean that both can't still be plain, non intricate swords. A Cube and a Sphere are two completely different basic shapes. This does not somehow make one "more or less" basic than the other. Your argument here is ridiculous...

So again you agree with me. If there are differences between the two then one is more intricate the the other even if both are plain because of the differences between the two.

[Shadowferal]

[Surfd]

So again you agree with me. If there are differences between the two then one is more intricate the the other even if both are plain because of the differences between the two.

No. Because as we have attempted to point out, multiple times, we have never been discussing the absolute difference of intricacy between the two items.

We literally do not care if Sword A is .5 degrees more intricate than Sword B, because that is NOT what we are talking about when it comes to if either sword classifies as "intricate".

What we have been attempting to point out is that if Sword A rates as a 5, and Sword B rates as a 4.5, neither sword is considered intricate if the required rating to be considered intricate is a 10. It literally does not matter if A is more intricate than B by a few fractional degrees.

NEITHER SWORD IS INTRICATE. How you have managed to get this far and STILL not pick up on this boggles the mind. It's no wonder you keep insisting you are right: You have been holding an argument with yourself on a completely incorrect topic and imagining you are doing well at it.......

- - - Updated - - -

The sword people wanted them to use would be a more intricate prop to make.

Going back to this: only because if that picture is any indication, the prop that they did actually chose to go with looks like absolutely no actual effort went into making it, as if it was put together in about 5 minutes by an amateur, so as such, literally ANYTHING else they could have made would likely be more "intricate" by comparison.

Doesn't mean that it would have been somehow been even vaguely so much more expensive to produce that they had to justify going with the shit they did by comparison.

The sword, as described by the books, would easily be represented by a Western style hilt (pommel, leather wrapped hilt, quillons) attached to a Katana style blade (slightly curved, edge on one side). Making that would be fundamentally no more complex or intricate than making just a katana, or just a western style sword. Any competent propmaster could have whipped up a nearly book literal version of the sword with absolutely no more effort than it would have taken to make any other sword.

Hell, with the sheer number of swords their props department was likely required to purchase just to outfit the show, they probably could have just mix-n-matched two separate vaguely correct looking Hilts+Blades off of some of the general stuff they grabbed and slapped their dumbass heron mark decal on that and it would have been significantly more book accurate than the shit they went with at literally no additional cost.

[rhorle]

It literally does not matter if A is more intricate than B by a few fractional degrees.

So the sword is not more intricate but it is more intricate by a few degrees. You are agreeing with me. It is as simple as that.

[Surfd]

So the sword is not more intricate but it is more intricate by a few degrees. You are agreeing with me. It is as simple as that.

Ok, fuck it, fine, I give up, you win. Making a book accurate prop sword would 100% have required making a more "intricate" prop, which likely would have cost them a whopping 15 to 20 bucks more in production costs, so they probably would have been forced to buy plain hamburg buns instead of kaiser rolls for lunch one Saturday to make up for the crushing budget overrun that would have required. So glad you proved your point.

[rhorle]

Ok, fuck it, fine, I give up, you win. Making a book accurate prop sword would 100% have required making a more "intricate" prop, which likely would have cost them a whopping 15 to 20 bucks more in production costs, so they probably would have been forced to buy plain hamburg buns instead of kaiser rolls for lunch one Saturday to make up for the crushing budget overrun that would have required. So glad you proved your point.

My comments were not about what it would take to make a book accurate prop sword. It was about making a more intricate one, closer to the fableblades example, would have cost more then the less intricate one they did create. Simple as that. It would have been nice if they did have a more intricate, ornate, or any other descriptor for "better" you can think of then the one the show did so it was both "unique" and "book accurate".

I also don't think you have knowledge of production costs if you think it would be $15 or $20 dollars extra. The Fableblades site says it can cost up to $XX,XXX for a sword and up to the same from a scabbard. The minimun was $X,XXX for each. Do you have anything to show that the swords used on the show are not normal swords and just "props" painted/whatever to look real?

[Surfd]

Do you have anything to show that the swords used on the show are not normal swords and just "props" painted/whatever to look real?

Are you actually asking if shows like GoT and Wheel use REAL FUCKING SWORDS for their shit? Nobody, anywhere, is going to use "normal swords" for TV or Movie combat. Even a moderately good "normal sword" is going to cost you several hundred bucks, minimum. That's literally why they have prop departments. A single, moderately good "real" sword would cost them 10x what a comparable prop would, easy. Not to mention the fact that nobody in their right mind is going to actually USE a several hundred dollar sword for literally anything other than display purposes, because simply hitting shit with it would do nearly irreparable damage to it..... Don't be mental. That's about as dumb as asking if they destroyed actual million dollar super cars in every installment of Fast and the Furious.

- - - Updated - - -

It was about making a more intricate one, closer to the fableblades example, would have cost more then the less intricate one they did create. Simple as that.

Except that you have no way to prove that. You are simply making that statement based on the appearance of the Fableblade item, which is literally a display piece designed by a company that specializes in selling over priced display shit to collectors with more money than sense.

Any competent propmaster could have made a book accurate prop for a fraction of what that Fableblade piece actually costs because literally the only thing that matters when making props is the visual look. The material cost for the Fableblade piece alone would likely pay for 20 prop swords going by the crazy prices they list for shit on their website.

I mean, christ, a quick google search can turn up a dozen places selling move quality prop swords for around 120 bucks as a FINISHED PRODUCT complete with scabbard. You think someone with the backing of a giant like freaking Amazon couldn't find someone willing to wholesale them prop sword parts for dozen different styles of swords for a literal fraction of that on a per item basis? Don't make me laugh.

[rhorle]

Are you actually asking if shows like GoT and Wheel use REAL FUCKING SWORDS for their shit? Nobody, anywhere, is going to use "normal swords" for TV or Movie combat.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...weapons-artist

This seems to indicate that Game of Thrones had both "real" steel swords, aluminum ones for fight scenes and action shots, with rubber ones for some stuntwork. I was asking if you knew what the Wheel of Time show used or if you are just using the same "I know everything" attitude that had you argue for several pages on something you actually agreed with me about.

Also they spent millions to create the Two Rivers village and then burned/destroyed most of it for the Trolloc attack scene. I don't think you know enough about how the film industry treats sets to be calling anyone mental or things dumb. Amazon wasn't even upset about it. https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-bu...urned-it-down/

[Surfd]

Also they spent millions to create the Two Rivers village and then burned/destroyed most of it for the Trolloc attack scene. I don't think you know enough about how the film industry treats sets to be calling anyone mental or things dumb. Amazon wasn't even upset about it. https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-bu...urned-it-down/

So wait. Let me get this straight. They spent MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to create a fake village that literally appears in maybe 1.5 Episodes and then destroyed it, yet they can't be arsed to spend maybe 200 bucks, literally, tops, to make a prop sword that is actually book accurate so Rand can carry it around for at least probably 2 full seasons?

Glad to know the moron in charge of this shitshow has his priorities straight. Gods.

[rhorle]

So wait. Let me get this straight. They spent MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to create a fake village that literally appears in maybe 1.5 Episodes and then destroyed it, yet they can't be arsed to spend maybe 200 bucks, literally, tops, to make a prop sword that is actually book accurate so Rand can carry it around for at least probably 2 full seasons?

Is the moron the one that does things that please the people paying the bills, or the one that pulls a random number out of the air to continue complaining about a show you've disliked for weeks already? Because I'm pretty sure you don't have proof that it literally costs $200 and are misusing that word as well.

Also what do you honestly expect them to do with the village? It isn't present again till later if the show even goes back there. Would you rather the cheaped out on the winters night attack? Spent money to upkeep and preserve it in some random quarry? Hollywood has long destroyed, buried, or abandoned sets that cost a lot of money to build. The most famous one is probably the DeMille set that was dismantled and buried in the desert after filming was done. http://dunescenter.org/visit-the-dun...ty-of-demille/

[Surfd]

Because I'm pretty sure you don't have proof that it literally costs $200 and are misusing that word as well.

The simple fact that I can buy THIS, which includes an actual hand forged folded Damascus Steel Blade and authentic Ray Skin on on the hilt for 400 Canadian dollars is pretty much all the proof I need. It tells me that you would have to be insane to imagine that a propmaster (Ie, a guy that makes functional but essentially fake weapons) couldn't make a decent book accurate blade for a significantly less.

I mean, fuck, they will even engrave it at no additional charge, so I could get a heron mark on it for free! Score! (Hell, you could probably get them to replace the dragon on the hilt with a Heron at minimal additional charge too, if you asked nicely about it).

Do you really expect me to believe that a prop sword, even a REALLY PRETTY prop sword meant entirely to be used as a "presentation" piece, can't be made for under 200 bucks when I can buy a literal professionally produced authentically blacksmith made sword that has been marked up for retail sale to include labor costs at just 400 bucks? For that matter, that same website offers a slightly less fancy but nearly identical Katana (no special electroplated red blade) for a mere 300 bucks CAD.

At the current exchange rate, that works out to about 240 American. So again, tell me how ball-parking a prop weapon (the entire point of which is to be less expensive than the real thing) at 200 bucks American on the top end is somehow unrealistic when a professionally hand smithed sword made using premium materials costs ~240 after markup for retail sale......

Like, think about it: if you are correct and my estimate on what it costs to make a "quality" prop weapon is too low then hell, they could literally have custom ordered their "Heron Mark Katana" piece from this website and it would have probably cost them less than what they spent to make that cheapass looking piece of garbage from the picture with it's insulting glue on heron decal.

I mean, christ, 99% of the actual "high end" steel prop swords these people are dealing with are made of basic industrial spring steel and cost a fraction of what a real sword blade would be worth. The blades aren't even "forged" in the traditional sense of the blacksmithing process. They are made of industrially produced bar stock that can be cut to shape with a CNC machine in an hour and then have a "blade" put on them with an angle grinder in a couple more. The material for the blade on that katana I mentioned above probably makes up half cost of the damn thing. The spring steel needed to produce a prop likely costs you about 20 to 30 bucks at wholesale prices by comparison.

[Gigantique]

rotten tomatos is useless not enough ratings to base anything accurately of it, imbd is the only one with a decent amount and most of its ratings were all 7 and above with most at a 10 rating, the rating was probably dropped by one whole mark because book fans didnt get the story they wanted otherwise it would be over 8.

Its a solid good show and that is proven by all the data available, even most of the ratings on amazon are mostly max ratings, ppl who give something the lowest rating are just doing it out of spite not because its actually bad.

Imma flip that around real quick.

The people giving it max ratings are just doing it out of spite/fanboyism.

That was easy.

[jdbond]

7.2 on IMDB now. I think it can hit below 7 before second season. It can go quite low. Ofcourse there are lot of "good" TV shows at 6.5s. Hell, very successful transformers movies are 7 or less on IMDB.

We were just clueless about what passed for good on Amazon. Its all good. Kudos to rafe and team.

[kenn9530]

*Doesn't believe the data*
*Claims the data proves him right*

Right then...

Do you think less than 5k is enough of a sample base to even give a remotely accurate reading, at least imbd has over 70k to get something from, you are just trying to use a website that doesnt do stuff accurately to try and back your view.

- - - Updated - - -

Imma flip that around real quick.

The people giving it max ratings are just doing it out of spite/fanboyism.

That was easy.

Ppl who give 1 ratings when its very obvious its not are just immature children because they didnt get what they imagined the tv series to be, you dont always get what you want so suck it up, the tv series is more than good enough for ppl to give a max rating because what is most important in a tv series is entertainment, if it does that its done its job.

My point stands the series is good, its not the best series ever but is solid and enjoyable, too many series that are good still dont get enough seasons though.

[Gumble]

Ppl who give 1 ratings when its very obvious its not

How is it "very obvious" that its not a 1?


I'm not saying that it IS a 1, but you are making as much of an assumption as anyone else that "so many people loved it". Between the ways ratings can be gamed online (both for and against) and the ways studios go out of their way to make everything look like a success (Disney is supposedly the biggest offender of this, but Amazon could easily be doing this too)..... trying to make an accurate judgement on "how people think about the show" is a slippery guess at best.

Maybe alot of people liked it, maybe not, maybe people liked it at the start and soured on it as the season went on, maybe tons of people loved every second.

We don't know, and we are all just guessing. If we are going by the people posting, it looks like way more people had a very negative view of it than a very positive view (as neutral views tend to not bother to post about stuff). That doesn't offer an incredibly accurate picture, but it certainly tells you it wasn't universally liked. Given how many online reviewers started positive and got progressively upset by the season, I'd say that the most likely assumption is that the show started off with a swell of optimism and people hoping it was going to be good, but it looks like the end of the season turned alot of people off.

Will those people come back for season 2? Hard to say.


But yea, just because its "not obviously a 1" doesn't mean it was a good show. It was a mediocre fantasy show that did a very bad adaptation of a popular series that faltered at the end of the season for multiple reasons and turned alot of viewers opinions negative. Its not a 1, but it also wasn't good.

[Katchii]

Which is what I've said from the start. And yet that is what people have been arguing with me about.

So again you agree with me. If there are differences between the two then one is more intricate the the other even if both are plain because of the differences between the two.

Not sure where you're going with this.

The sword they used was garbage and not at all representative of the sword from the books.

Rafe has gone on record MANY times to say how HUGE of a fan he is and how he wants to do this story justice and has reviewers and consultants and blah blah blah....a crew to make sure he does it "right," according to the books essentially. Yet he pulls shit like this, left, right, and center throughout the show.

With the budget they had, a few thousand dollars to buy a legit replica of the sword is drops in the bucket. This sword plays a role in and of itself throughout the story, it should have been faithful to the books description. The show doesn't even describe wtf a heron marked blade even is, or why it matters, so of course they're not going to do justice to the actual sword itself.

None of the excuses are good enough for why they couldn't do it right.

This show is an absolute garbage adaptation.

It's fine if you enjoy the show for what it is, but it sure as hell isn't a good adaptation of the book series.

[Shadowferal]

Will those people come back for season 2? Hard to say.

Bigger question; will those who seem to be "Rafesworn" such as rhorl or kenn disappear after the show receives its already overdue cancellation notice?

[Pratt]

I was fully prepped to hate this show and ended up liking it. Actually got me to pull a couple of the books out of the basement to remember what happens next.

[Corvus]

I was fully prepped to hate this show and ended up liking it. Actually got me to pull a couple of the books out of the basement to remember what happens next.

No point in reading the books for that given just how far they have deviated from the plot in the books.

[Shadowferal]

I was fully prepped to hate this show and ended up liking it. Actually got me to pull a couple of the books out of the basement to remember what happens next.

No point in reading the books for that given just how far they have deviated from the plot in the books.

I agree.
Reading the books would likely get one to hate the show since it doesn't resemble the books at all. And that's not delving into how silly or the logical inconsistencies the contrived script is.