Do all classes require 15+ buttons rotations?

[Katchii]

Still yet to see or hear of people getting banned for plugin use. Many openly stream or post videos with them running. I would be surprised if they eventually fix in official addon support to their game.

Even Yoshi-P has gone on record to kind of make fun of the use of "third party tools" by bringing up the fact that a person with enough patience could do the exact same thing as ACT using a calculator or MS Excel, because technically, both considered a third party tool. And how are we (as in Yoshi-P is asking this question) going to know if you use a calculator or Excel?

It's a hard line in the sand, that they won't really ever know you cross. And even they acknowledge that. They just draw that line to intimidate people not to use them so they don't have endless ridiculous reporting wars and such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

[Aggressive]

Even Yoshi-P has gone on record to kind of make fun of the use of "third party tools" by bringing up the fact that a person with enough patience could do the exact same thing as ACT using a calculator or MS Excel, because technically, both considered a third party tool. And how are we (as in Yoshi-P is asking this question) going to know if you use a calculator or Excel?

It's a hard line in the sand, that they won't really ever know you cross. And even they acknowledge that. They just draw that line to intimidate people not to use them so they don't have endless ridiculous reporting wars and such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

I remember watching that video a few months ago. He said use ACT at your own risk. I took it as use for your own personal use since they couldn't see what anyone's comp has on it.

So plain and simple if you use ACT, don't say shit about anyone else's DPS. Keep that shit to yourself. Pointing out someone's DPS like this is WoW could get your account banned

[Osmeric]

The more complicated skill sets of jobs in FF14 is why I'm not going to bother with any group content beyond that which was needed to do the MSQs. As a result, it's why I'm shortly going to unsub, as I just finished the Endwalker MSQs.

Personally, I find it needlessly complex.

[Tojara]

The more complicated skill sets of jobs in FF14 is why I'm not going to bother with any group content beyond that which was needed to do the MSQs. As a result, it's why I'm shortly going to unsub, as I just finished the Endwalker MSQs.

Personally, I find it needlessly complex.

A lot of the tanks play pretty much the same (kind of). Also there's jobs like RDM that don't really have a lot of buttons (or just have several buttons that do virtually the same thing but are different colors). I've heard summoner is super easy as well. Depends on job, but there's usually a few buttons that you will almost never use.

One thing to keep in mind if you wanted to do any group content is that the dungeons are so easy that you don't really need to commit any muscle memory to setting up decent binds for AoE anyways. If you just focus on ST stuff you might be slightly less optimal in dungeons, but at worst you might add like a minute to a dungeon run?

If you're finding some of them too complex it might just be the job you play, or people who make spreadsheets or flow charts that make it seem way harder than it actually is. You can botch shit for sure, but as long as you're keeping oGCD abilities on CD and keeping your GCD rolling you're going to be doing decent damage or healing anyways, so the gap might not be as big as you think.

TLDR; The group content (trials, raids) are some of the best content in the game (to me anyways). 95% of the time (or higher) is pure ST with not many target swaps or adds, so AoE abilities mostly take up prime real-estate for key binds.

[Ghost of Cow]

A lot of the tanks play pretty much the same (kind of). Also there's jobs like RDM that don't really have a lot of buttons (or just have several buttons that do virtually the same thing but are different colors). I've heard summoner is super easy as well. Depends on job, but there's usually a few buttons that you will almost never use.

One thing to keep in mind if you wanted to do any group content is that the dungeons are so easy that you don't really need to commit any muscle memory to setting up decent binds for AoE anyways. If you just focus on ST stuff you might be slightly less optimal in dungeons, but at worst you might add like a minute to a dungeon run?

If you're finding some of them too complex it might just be the job you play, or people who make spreadsheets or flow charts that make it seem way harder than it actually is. You can botch shit for sure, but as long as you're keeping oGCD abilities on CD and keeping your GCD rolling you're going to be doing decent damage or healing anyways, so the gap might not be as big as you think.

TLDR; The group content (trials, raids) are some of the best content in the game (to me anyways). 95% of the time (or higher) is pure ST with not many target swaps or adds, so AoE abilities mostly take up prime real-estate for key binds.

The community is so obsessed with single target rotations that FFLogs is excluding the adds from P3S because...omg what if an organized group lets someone pad their logs on the adds, that's not REAL damage, only single target matters!

[Tojara]

The community is so obsessed with single target rotations that FFLogs is excluding the adds from P3S because...omg what if an organized group lets someone pad their logs on the adds, that's not REAL damage, only single target matters!

That's weird lol.

That's one thing I noticed when doing trials and raids in FF14 though. The lack of any real swapping or, well, adds in general. Not saying the boss design isn't excellent as is, but it's weird to have AoE abilities and oGCDs dedicated to presumably just dungeons?

[Ghost of Cow]

That's weird lol.

That's one thing I noticed when doing trials and raids in FF14 though. The lack of any real swapping or, well, adds in general. Not saying the boss design isn't excellent as is, but it's weird to have AoE abilities and oGCDs dedicated to presumably just dungeons?

Indeed, you could pretty much ignore all your AoE buttons and be just fine in almost everything "serious".

Everything is single target and when it's not you can't AoE it most of the time anyway. It's to the point where I've seen people whining about Bard and Dancer because they get line AoE's that let them "pad" one whole shot on EX1 orbs for instance.

Then again, the XIV parsing community has always been odd.

[Shakzor]

That's weird lol.

That's one thing I noticed when doing trials and raids in FF14 though. The lack of any real swapping or, well, adds in general. Not saying the boss design isn't excellent as is, but it's weird to have AoE abilities and oGCDs dedicated to presumably just dungeons?

Aoe GCDs, yeah, they're essentially wasted buttons in a lot of Trials and Raids but AoE oGCDs also get used in single target (with the stronger single target being prioritized ofc), since it's pretty much always a dps boost. On Redmage, i even use the oGCD charge essentially only as a dps ability, rather than a gap closer

[Icecat]

Summoner /jk

Too lazy to read this 11-page thread but this first post has aged so well lol. Summoner unironically the simplest job to play now with only a small handful of buttons to cycle through and a rez to boot.

[Ghost of Cow]

Aoe GCDs, yeah

Yeah, I should have been more clear, too. oGCDs are great no matter what!

[Yarathir]

Let's take Dragoon for example:
True Thrust - GCD, part of main combo
Vorpal Thrust - GCD, part of main combo
Full Thrust - GCD, part of main combo
Disembowel - GCD, part of main combo
Chaos Thrust - GCD, part of main combo
Fang and Claw - GCD, part of main combo
Wheeling Thrust - GCD, part of main combo
Life Surge - oGCD, mainly used on Full Thrust
Lance Charge - oGCD, main personal damage boost
Jump - oGCD, used on cooldown
Spineshatter Dive - oGCD, used on cooldown despite being gap closer, because of potency
Dragonfire Dive - oGCD, used on cooldown even in ST despite technically being AoE ability
Battle Litany - oGCD, main raid cooldown
Geirskogul/Nastrond - oGCD, used on cooldown
Dragon Sight - secondary raid cooldown
Mirage Dive - oGCD, procced by Jump, used instantly after it, because creating more useless keybinds is fun
Stardiver - oGCD, used on cooldown

There you go, 17 abilities in your ST rotation, something you've claimed not to exist. I wish you spent more time actually playing the game than spouting uninformed nonsense about it.

That's kind of misleading.

True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaotic Spring -> Wheeling Thrust -> Fang & Claw

to

True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Heaven's Thrust -> Fang & Claw -> Wheeling Thrust

Fang & Claw is a flank attack, Chaotic Spring and Wheeling Thrust are rear attacks. That's your basic rotation.

Battle Litany, Dragon Sight and Lance Charge are your buffs.

Your dives are your oGCDs that you are expected to weave in between these attacks.

Geirskogul you weave in between them too unless your second High Jump is nearly up in which case you need to save it for Life of the Dragon and turn it into Nastrond, after which you can weave that 3 times over the course of the Life of the Dragon phase and also use Stardiver once.

You use Life Surge for Heaven's Thrust.

On top of that, you have Wyrmwind Thrust which is just a reward you can use whenever you complete your basic rotation once.

[GreenJesus]

That's kind of misleading.

True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaotic Spring -> Wheeling Thrust -> Fang & Claw

to

True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Heaven's Thrust -> Fang & Claw -> Wheeling Thrust

Fang & Claw is a flank attack, Chaotic Spring and Wheeling Thrust are rear attacks. That's your basic rotation.

Battle Litany, Dragon Sight and Lance Charge are your buffs.

Your dives are your oGCDs that you are expected to weave in between these attacks.

Geirskogul you weave in between them too unless your second High Jump is nearly up in which case you need to save it for Life of the Dragon and turn it into Nastrond, after which you can weave that 3 times over the course of the Life of the Dragon phase and also use Stardiver once.

You use Life Surge for Heaven's Thrust.

On top of that, you have Wyrmwind Thrust which is just a reward you can use whenever you complete your basic rotation once.

I think the only hard part of dragoon is weaving all of your off GCD's with sometimes pretty long animation times without clipping your GCD abilities. Also, I'm extremely lazy and just have a macro for dragon eye that targets the nearest player to me (regardless of role), because otherwise I'd lose damage trying to target the right person during a weave. I guess I could change the name of the person I target every group I join, but that's a hassle. It's honestly funny listening to the healer in discord go "I HAVE DRAGON EYES WOO".

[Nalam the Venom]

Make 4-6 buttons at most for your attack damage skills.

Then i might consider trying out FF14.

But F these "20 skills have to be keybinded"

Or just introduce a "Simple mode" like some other KR MMO's have.

Where the game just auto-does the rotation while you hold RMB

[Ghost of Cow]

I don't mind the "complex" stuff, nor do I mind the number of buttons on principle. It's just that so many keybinds starts to become uncomfortable sometimes.

[Yarathir]

I think the only hard part of dragoon is weaving all of your off GCD's with sometimes pretty long animation times without clipping your GCD abilities. Also, I'm extremely lazy and just have a macro for dragon eye that targets the nearest player to me (regardless of role), because otherwise I'd lose damage trying to target the right person during a weave. I guess I could change the name of the person I target every group I join, but that's a hassle. It's honestly funny listening to the healer in discord go "I HAVE DRAGON EYES WOO".

I have a Dragon Sight macro to put it on my focus target, but sometimes that requires multiple clicks regardless of the range of my prospective "dragon sight partner." Which is not ideal for weaving. The entire ability feels a bit janky, even after macroing it.

The weaving is so-so. It's mostly fine because Dragoon is a single-weaving job, as opposed to some double-weaving jobs, which works *fairly* well, unless you don't account for the fact that you need to change your position while you're in the middle of a Spineshatter Dive. I've done that a few times.

Also sometimes the game can lag out and queue up several abilities to play out at once, and that's how my Nastrond -> Wheeling Thrust -> Stardiver -> Fang & Claw turned into a Nastrond, Stardiver, Wheeling Thrust . . . . . Fang & Claw.

[Tojara]

Aoe GCDs, yeah, they're essentially wasted buttons in a lot of Trials and Raids but AoE oGCDs also get used in single target (with the stronger single target being prioritized ofc), since it's pretty much always a dps boost. On Redmage, i even use the oGCD charge essentially only as a dps ability, rather than a gap closer

Oh of course. I more or less mean things that share oGCD timers (DRK can only do one or the other, and while abyssal drain has a cool secondary use, the healing is rather paltry for the potency it gives compared to the ST one (prior to EW they use to be different CDS).

I also weave my oGCD charges on my RDM. The class has pretty good flow, feels far more active and pretty simple to pick up. If I'm not mistake it doesn't really require a lot of double weaving, which I think is largely the most 'sour' part of some jobs that I play. It just feels like a lot of button mashing during CDs followed by generally a very slow pace for the next 50 seconds. Ping and spell/skill speed being a large factor in double weaving is also pretty annoying, but again, not something you really need to worry about unless you're trying to do maximize like the hard raids.

I'd recommend for people when they're new to not super worry about weaving in the gap closers for damage. They're something, but usually such a small overall damage gain that it's best to just save them (especially when learning encounters for the first time).

[GreenJesus]

I have a Dragon Sight macro to put it on my focus target, but sometimes that requires multiple clicks regardless of the range of my prospective "dragon sight partner." Which is not ideal for weaving. The entire ability feels a bit janky, even after macroing it.

The weaving is so-so. It's mostly fine because Dragoon is a single-weaving job, as opposed to some double-weaving jobs, which works *fairly* well, unless you don't account for the fact that you need to change your position while you're in the middle of a Spineshatter Dive. I've done that a few times.

Also sometimes the game can lag out and queue up several abilities to play out at once, and that's how my Nastrond -> Wheeling Thrust -> Stardiver -> Fang & Claw turned into a Nastrond, Stardiver, Wheeling Thrust . . . . . Fang & Claw.

Yeh I sometimes have to spam press the ability like 8 times for it to activate. Really frustrating.

[Pannonian]

Yeh I sometimes have to spam press the ability like 8 times for it to activate. Really frustrating.

I don't bother with mouse over macros anymore, as they all suffer the same problem: queuability is missing, which makes weaving them so much harder.

Dalamud Launcher has a small plugin where you can assign specific spells to mouse over -> much better.

[Runicblood]

So i dont play FF and probably never will, but from what i can tell here you have literal "rotations"??

Like you algorithmically press a number of buttons in a predetermined "timer" of sort?

IMO that is very bad gameplay. I don't want to recite a piano song, I want to keep my eyes on procs and cd's and RNG based stuff - which wow does very well.
Having to remember to "press 1 then 2 then 3 then 4 then 1 then 5 then 2 then 6 then ....... -> back to step 1" is ridiculous and not engaging.

Please provide insight all mighty FF end game players

[shise]

FF is pretty easy in that sense. As far as the jobs I tried, in very short, you have a rotation which is a cookie cutter and you stick to it, ignoring the alternative "routes".

It is a pretty poor design and I guess it will soon be revamped. It is a good example of the opposite of making it too simple... So many spells are utterly useless.

Sadly, out of competitive raids, there is a "Ban" on being slighlty competitive, so it all makes 0 difference if you slam your keyboard with your face or if you put an effort.