Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Shalcker]

Blah blah. The equipment and troops are still there and havent been moved anywhere.

300km from border is plenty of area; enough troops will stay there forever to be "cause for concern".

[unfilteredJW]

People just like to use hyperbolic language, it's the same with January the 6th.

Saving this for the next time you ask me why your posting history is important.

[PC2]

Saving this for the next time you ask me why your posting history is important.

M'kay, I mainly care about discussing ideas that relate to the topic... You can open a new thread with the relevant topic or PM me anytime as well.

[beanman12345]

M'kay, I mainly care about discussing ideas that relate to the topic... You can open a new thread with the relevant topic or PM me anytime as well.

If you actually did though, you'd want people to take you seriously enough to consider your idea's. And all you ever do is prove we shouldn't, which is why nobody evert does.

[PC2]

If you actually did though, you'd want people to take you seriously enough to consider your idea's. And all you ever do is prove we shouldn't, which is why nobody evert does.

Okay well that means I have not convinced people of my claims yet, such as whether it makes sense to be more pessimistic or optimistic. It's not a big deal though, If I'm wrong I'll have to change my mind in the future, if you're wrong you'll have to change your mind.

Regarding Russia I don't think they will gain a lot of power from Ukraine and I don't think they'll harm 99% of Ukrainians. If most Ukrainians want to add their power to Russia then I think they should be free to try things out, even though I don't think it'll work out great. Russia should not enter Ukraine without consent but at the same time it's kind of a good thing how they're always keeping Europe on their toes. Progressives in Europe would have their heads too high up in the clouds if they didn't have Russia next door, who helps keep Europe tethered to reality and prevents them from demilitarizing.

[Shadowferal]

Okay well that means I have not convinced people of my claims yet, such as whether it makes sense to be more pessimistic or optimistic. It's not a big deal though, If I'm wrong I'll have to change my mind in the future, if you're wrong you'll have to change your mind.

But you're always wrong...proven...evidenced, and when so...you just run away from the truth insisting that proof and evidence...isn't.

[PC2]

But you're always wrong...proven...evidenced, and when so...you just run away from the truth insisting that proof and evidence...isn't.

Then you should start a new thread or PM me about which one of my arguments or positions is the most wrong, that way we can clarify any disagreement. It's probably not an appropriate topic in a Asia/Europe geopolitics thread...

[Crispin]

How would you even begin to untangle existing knots without acknowledging that world mirrors US approaches when they have local power to do so? (and in many cases such local power grows over time)

You seem to be saying "Putin will not get what he says he wants but he will get what he obviously can use to keep power instead".

So, in your view Putin asking concessions would be win-win no matter the outcome, and he can still invade if situation will call for it too.

I'm not aware of a neighbouring country, that the US partly invaded, and are trying to keep out of an alliance, but again you're just trying to validate whataboutism. Which is nothing but a tool to deflect attention away, in a rather childish way tbh.

In the current situation, it's working against what Putin claims he wants, since NATO is only reinforcing troops in Eastern Europe. If he invades, Russias internal problems will only get worse, the economy will be hit by sanctions, you'll likekly see Ukranian terrorist attacks on Russian soil, Finland and Sweden will most likely join NATO.

So as usual it's alot of talk for internal show.

[Gestopft]

Russia should not enter Ukraine without consent but at the same time it's kind of a good thing how they're always keeping Europe on their toes. Progressives in Europe would have their heads too high up in the clouds if they didn't have Russia next door, who helps keep Europe tethered to reality and prevents them from demilitarizing.

Woooow, this is a weird take...

[Crispin]

Woooow, this is a weird take...

Apparently arms races and threat of invasion = good.

[Ettan]

I'm not aware of a neighbouring country, that the US partly invaded, and are trying to keep out of an alliance, but again you're just trying to validate whataboutism. Which is nothing but a tool to deflect attention away, in a rather childish way tbh.

In the current situation, it's working against what Putin claims he wants, since NATO is only reinforcing troops in Eastern Europe. If he invades, Russias internal problems will only get worse, the economy will be hit by sanctions, you'll likekly see Ukranian terrorist attacks on Russian soil, Finland and Sweden will most likely join NATO.

So as usual it's alot of talk for internal show.

While I agree with you that Nato is purely a defensive alliance.
There is alot of precident for exactly the bolded part.
->The monroe doctrine. Example; the cuban missile crisis and subsequent blockade (+ bana republic wars in s am).



American pol science expert details the realist pov / ukraine seen from putin/russia. ~ folllowing the Krimea invasion (but it is largely unchanged).
Also shows how this clashes quite hard with the idealist naive dreamer pov

[Milchshake]

Russian Defenestration Syndrome seems to be spreading.... faster than 20oO0 bandits!

Kazakh officials (from domestic intelligence agency and Interior Ministry) died today.

1. One had a "heart attack"
2. Another "committed suicide" by falling out of a window...

This comes after Toqaev said unrest was coup attempt...

[Crispin]

While I agree with you that Nato is purely a defensive alliance.
There is alot of precident for exactly the bolded part.
->The monroe doctrine. Example; the cuban missile crisis and subsequent blockade (+ bana republic wars in s am).



American pol science expert details the realist pov / ukraine seen from putin/russia. ~ folllowing the Krimea invasion (but it is largely unchanged).
Also shows how this clashes quite hard with the idealist naive dreamer pov

So now it turned towards the US anyways.

Compare the Cuban missile crisis to what I wrote. Did the US partly invade and forced Cuba to avoid alliances with the USSR?


Not interested in "expert opinions", since they're as biased as an op-ed. If Mearsheimer had his way, Ukraine would still have nuclear weapons today, which is utterly insane. Add how he thinks that Ukraine should be a "buffer state" between NATO and Russia, somehow ignoring that NATO countries already borders Russia. You can find experts on all subjects who has stupid opinions. I'll gladly link a video of another expert, who disagrees with "your" expert, and we're back to square zero.

Point stands that Ukraine is a sovereign country, and Russia does not dictate their alliances. Add that Putin gave 0 fucks about the budapest memorandum.

And let's be real. Alliances lead by Russia are pretty shit. The Warzaw pact only ever invaded itself, now CSTO is for some reason copying that pitiful effort.

- - - Updated - - -

Russian Defenestration Syndrome seems to be spreading.... faster than 20oO0 bandits!

Kazakh officials (from domestic intelligence agency and Interior Ministry) died today.

1. One had a "heart attack"
2. Another "committed suicide" by falling out of a window...

This comes after Toqaev said unrest was coup attempt...

Ah yes, lead poisoning and long term side effects of vodka are such a shame.

[Shalcker]

I'm not aware of a neighbouring country, that the US partly invaded, and are trying to keep out of an alliance, but again you're just trying to validate whataboutism. Which is nothing but a tool to deflect attention away, in a rather childish way tbh.

How many countries had US invaded/occupied and how many did the rest of the world?

US has global reach; the rest have more focused local influence. Approaches are still similar.

Again, how would you even begin to untangle existing knots without acknowledging that?

"Just stop doing what you're doing, only we are allowed to do that"?

US getting some self-restraint (possibly with some treaties to make sure everyone is on the same page) could help.

In the current situation, it's working against what Putin claims he wants, since NATO is only reinforcing troops in Eastern Europe. If he invades, Russias internal problems will only get worse, the economy will be hit by sanctions, you'll likekly see Ukranian terrorist attacks on Russian soil, Finland and Sweden will most likely join NATO.

Putin's "wants" aren't about troops though - troops never going to be deciding factor - they are about missile systems.

We already seen Ukrainian attempts at terrorism too, it's nothing new.

- - - Updated - - -

So now it turned towards the US anyways.

Compare the Cuban missile crisis to what I wrote. Did the US partly invade and forced Cuba to avoid alliances with the USSR?

Neither did Russia.

In Cuban crisis USSR sent missiles to Cuba then had talks with USA over it and had gained concessions and removal of missiles from Turkey.

Point stands that Ukraine is a sovereign country, and Russia does not dictate their alliances. Add that Putin gave 0 fucks about the budapest memorandum.

As did US and UK.

And let's be real. Alliances lead by Russia are pretty shit. The Warzaw pact only ever invaded itself, now CSTO is for some reason copying that pitiful effort.

Now you're saying that "alliance is only good if they invade someone outside of it"... that's quite interesting take given you condemning invasions in the very same post.

[CostinR]

Compare the Cuban missile crisis to what I wrote. Did the US partly invade and forced Cuba to avoid alliances with the USSR? .

Bay of Pigs says hi. It failed but it was an attempted invasion by the US which contributed in a significant fashion to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[Crispin]

Bay of Pigs says hi. It failed but it was an attempted invasion by the US which contributed in a significant fashion to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Are you comparing an utterly failed minor invasion of Cuban exiles, trained by the US, to the Russian army invading and occupying Ukraine? Tell me you see the difference.

I'll ignore the fact that this was at the height of the cold war, about 6 decades ago and Castro had just nicked for more than a billion worth of assets from the Americans.

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How many countries had US invaded/occupied and how many did the rest of the world?

US has global reach; the rest have more focused local influence. Approaches are still similar.

Again, how would you even begin to untangle existing knots without acknowledging that?

"Just stop doing what you're doing, only we are allowed to do that"?

US getting some self-restraint (possibly with some treaties to make sure everyone is on the same page) could help.

Putin's "wants" aren't about troops though - troops never going to be deciding factor - they are about missile systems.

We already seen Ukrainian attempts at terrorism too, it's nothing new.

- - - Updated - - -

Neither did Russia.

In Cuban crisis USSR sent missiles to Cuba then had talks with USA over it and had gained concessions and removal of missiles from Turkey.

As did US and UK.

Now you're saying that "alliance is only good if they invade someone outside of it"... that's quite interesting take given you condemning invasions in the very same post.

Is this a thread about the US or Russia/Ukraine? lol

Now you're saying that "alliance is only good if they invade someone outside of it"... that's quite interesting take given you condemning invasions in the very same post.

If that's what you read, then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

[Shalcker]

Is this a thread about the US or Russia/Ukraine? lol

US is obviously a party in the conflict, given that Russia primarily talks to them about Ukrainian issues - and Biden even personally forced dismissal of head prosecutor there once.

If that's what you read, then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Just like NATO, Warsaw Pact was strong enough that no outsiders dared to question it.

Unlike NATO, it had no internal wars like Turkey-Greece.

[Crispin]

US is obviously a party in the conflict, given that Russia primarily talks to them about Ukrainian issues - and Biden even personally forced dismissal of head prosecutor there once.

Just like NATO, Warsaw Pact was strong enough that no outsiders dared to question it.

Unlike NATO, it had no internal wars like Turkey-Greece.

Gladly forgetting Hungary 1956 there are we? It's a standing joke, that the only thing the Warzaw pact ever was good for, was invading member countries

Apparently CSTO extends that joke

US getting some self-restraint (possibly with some treaties to make sure everyone is on the same page) could help.

Obviously the talks about the US, is not relevant.

Here's an idea, how about trying to be better than the US? Instead of the usual "Someone else once did something slightly similar, so it's ok!"

[Mekh]

It's not about how many terrorists they found, it's about how many exist. Over a hundred people would not have been killed if this was a peaceful movement.

Tiananmen.

[bladeXcrasher]

US is obviously a party in the conflict, given that Russia primarily talks to them about Ukrainian issues - and Biden even personally forced dismissal of head prosecutor there once.

No he didn't, he was the person picked to represent the entire group, which consisted not only the US, but other nations as well. Why do you lie about things that are common knowledge?