Should WoW adopt a tougher stance on Toxicity in-game?

[Miffinat0r]

Question is simple--would you like to see a stronger toxicity control team installed within WoW.

Personally after watching DoaG yesterday it's pretty clear Blizzard has a track record of not taking toxicity seriously (I mean...they did hire Alex). But while watching the video it was clear that Blizzard with OW had no intention of trying to make sure players who were harassing others over performance ever saw any type of accountability for their words/speech. Which ultimatley drove OW into the ground it's in now, because without those actual toxicity control measures sponsors were pulling out which started the downward spiral for OW.

As I watched I started thinking to myself the problems that Kaplan faced with OW isn't just an OW issue, this is culture issue at the company. There's no real desire to try and create a welcoming space for everyone inside of their games.

BTW: Here's the link to the video. It's not dude who opines about things, but DoaG only does games that have gone into maintenance mode, or vanished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ZFo8jpDfI

Active Thread Warnings:

Let's also not bring "Game vs. Game" rhetoric and derailment into this thread (e.g. WoW vs. FF14). Keep to the topic of the thread as it concerns WoW.

Let's drop the rolling back-and-forth about rape threats and what have you, and return the conversation to discussing the generalties of in-game toxicity or toxic behavior without dwelling on the most egregious examples.

[Eternal2u]

Question is simple--would you like to see a stronger toxicity control team installed within WoW.

Personally after watching DoaG yesterday it's pretty clear Blizzard has a track record of not taking toxicity seriously (I mean...they did hire Alex). But while watching the video it was clear that Blizzard with OW had no intention of trying to make sure players who were harassing others over performance ever saw any type of accountability for their words/speech. Which ultimatley drove OW into the ground it's in now, because without those actual toxicity control measures sponsors were pulling out which started the downward spiral for OW.

As I watched I started thinking to myself the problems that Kaplan faced with OW isn't just an OW issue, this is culture issue at the company. There's no real desire to try and create a welcoming space for everyone inside of their games.

BTW: Here's the link to the video. It's not dude who opines about things, but DoaG only does games that have gone into maintenance mode, or vanished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ZFo8jpDfI

No because they would make it a automated system without any nuance so jokes would result in bans.

[Djuntas]

I think its hard. Its just like social media, hard to control. Playing some casual classic som and already seen 2 questionable named level 60's. Virgingirl and molestor. Yes thats the name for their 60 character. Kinda hilarious they even got to 60 let alone. A friend of mine apparently has a guildy named suckmyfatdick in his native langue

There will always be idiots online, and the systems just aint good enough to clean it all up. WHILE it also hurts innocent players potentially.

[Miffinat0r]

I think its hard. Its just like social media, hard to control. Playing some casual classic som and already seen 2 questionable named level 60's. Virgingirl and molestor. Yes thats the name for their 60 character. Kinda hilarious they even got to 60 let alone. A friend of mine apparently has a guildy named suckmyfatdick in his native langue

There will always be idiots online, and the systems just aint good enough to clean it all up. WHILE it also hurts innocent players potentially.

I had a GM in EQ keep summoning me as a lvl 1 warrior human named Vtech and the entire reason was because I was named after another company. He made me change my name. That was in 2003.

They had to have bought boosts. Then again not many people are out in the world leveling so could've flown under the radar.

[Unholyvamp]

Question is simple--would you like to see a stronger toxicity control team installed within WoW.

But while watching the video it was clear that Blizzard with OW had no intention of trying to make sure players who were harassing others over performance ever saw any type of accountability for their words/speech. Which ultimatley drove OW into the ground it's in now, because without those actual toxicity control measures sponsors were pulling out which started the downward spiral for OW.

There's no real desire to try and create a welcoming space for everyone inside of their games.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ZFo8jpDfI

Following the same logic, LoL should be non-existent by now. But that is not the case (obviously)
Because it does have the most toxic community, so yeah i don't think that was the reason OW was driven to the ground.(if it was. Was it?)

Also as with all things in life, same applies to WoW - it ain't for everyone (for one reason or another).
And i think Blizzard already has settled with that - concerning other aspects of the game at least.

But to answer to the topic's question. No --BIG NO-- actually. I wouldn't want to see "stronger toxicity control"
I've read enough stories on this forum from their FF14 experience and their "friendly" community and how things are handled when you dare call someone out for being "bad" and all i thought was, Thank goodness this ain't WoW.
Forced censorship does not make a community good. The toxicity will be expressed via other means.(etc Discord)

The game already has strong policies as is. Applying even more could turn it into a totalitarian dictatorship, censoring and punishing anyone who dares to pose an opinion even in a friendly manner.

[Irian]

Toxicity might not be the right word, but I've been saying for years though that WoW half-assed approach to reporting has caused one of the biggest downward turns in an online community I've ever seen, though.

It turns out when you basically tell people in no uncertain terms that being a piece of shit will have absolutely zero long-term repercussions, many people are going to act like pieces of shit. On top of making the game less and less social by automating systems and not really doing anything to foster any kind of positive interaction and...well, we end up with this. Is it any surprise WoW's community turned out the way it did? Does leaving something mostly unregulated on the internet often lead to anything else?

[Marrilaife]

Which ultimatley drove OW into the ground it's in now, because without those actual toxicity control measures sponsors were pulling out which started the downward spiral for OW.

I thought what drove OW into the ground was lack of balance, stale "tank" meta and endless delays on OW2. Every online shooter is toxic af.

[T-34]

Absolutely!
Blizzard should do more so those that respect the time and effort of their fellow gamers won't have to endure a toxic in-game experience of playing with those that wilfully don't put in an effort to do their best.
Just look at FFXIV that actively persecutes those that that put in an effort and protects those that wilfully won't put in an effort.

But if you mean that those that toxic asshats that don't 'want to put in an effort should be protected and cuddled then you are promoting toxicity in-game.

Say no to toxicity! Don't encourage and support players that don't respect the time and effort of their fellow gamer!

[Miffinat0r]

I thought what drove OW into the ground was lack of balance, stale "tank" meta and endless delays on OW2. Every online shooter is toxic af.

That's later in the video. It's a cascading effect and it really started if you watch the vid, when they weren't doing anything to curb toxicity but only tried to curb it in comp ranked play which wasn't where the vast majority of the playerbase was. Then from there sponsors started getting spooked because of everything he talks about, then they added heroes who had a base advantage in a shooter because reduce need to aim. The vid spends about 10 mins on each section but the toxicity issue I had no idea about but apparently Kaplan wanted to fix it so bad but it seems the company just never approved his thoughts on bans.

Following the same logic, LoL should be non-existent by now. But that is not the case (obviously)
Because it does have the most toxic community, so yeah i don't think that was the reason OW was driven to the ground.(if it was. Was it?)

Also as with all things in life, same applies to WoW - it ain't for everyone (for one reason or another).
And i think Blizzard already has settled with that - concerning other aspects of the game at least.

But to answer to the topic's question. No --BIG NO-- actually. I wouldn't want to see "stronger toxicity control"
I've read enough stories on this forum from their FF14 experience and their "friendly" community and how things are handled when you dare call someone out for being "bad" and all i thought was, Thank goodness this ain't WoW.
Forced censorship does not make a community good. The toxicity will be expressed via other means.(etc Discord)

The game already has strong policies as is. Applying even more could turn it into a totalitarian dictatorship, censoring and punishing anyone who dares to pose an opinion even in a friendly manner.

I was doing google and wanted to search league because we know how toxic it is, but apparently they implemented a toxic control team and banned all chat and toxicity has decreased and is now below WoW with toxicity.

[VinceVega]

I think the whole toxicity problem is blown way out of proportion.

You get it mostly in queued content. And you will never get rid of it. Swinging the banhammer everytime someone is offended by xyz is a stupid thing. Also you never know when someone actually means something as a joke or not. Or something is taken out of context.

Remeber the old screenshot of someone asking for a country with n at the beginning in CoD it was i think?

FF14 has a horrible take on it. Hell i cannot even tell someone he is doing basically everything wrong. So i have to find another reason to not play with him and be fake-friendly?

I hate the term snowflake but really it is quite fitting sometimes. A total rando you enver meet in your live says something mean? Well.. get over it. Sticks and stones etc. SOmeone insults me in a pug i put him on ignore. Done. No problem ever again with him.

Trying to get rid of toxicity in anonymous content anywhere is a Sisyphean Task. Only way to really get rid of most is by Real Names in the game.... which they tried...and immediatly abandond.

[HASELHOOF93]

FF is designed for bad players, WoW is not. So FF does not allow to tell people how bad they are, and that is the sad part where this world has come to.

Fucking Cancel Culture and not being allowed to say anything about anything.
Just no. Only becasue someone told you you made something wrong or you made something bad it is not toxic. But guys like you that feel like it's toxic are whining that fast these days and instantly drop off out of groups and stop playing. This should be punished hard, extremely hard.

Elitists are what keep this planet alive. Not only in WoW. Everywhere.
If we are not allowed to tell you to improve and stay shit everything is going down.

And before something becomes another shit hardcore low trash player game like FF it should rather die.
I would rather kill myself, too, than thinking nobody is allowed to tell me I did bad when they boosted me through something, no matter what it is.

Fuck the Casuals, for The Elite.

Amen brother.

[RobertMugabe]

No they shouldn't, because it would be an automated system that could be easily abused.

If they had real and paid GM's that would actively moderate public channels then sure (assuming they'd be fair and forgiving and not just powertripping).

- - - Updated - - -

Question is simple--would you like to see a stronger toxicity control team installed within WoW.

Personally after watching DoaG yesterday it's pretty clear Blizzard has a track record of not taking toxicity seriously (I mean...they did hire Alex). But while watching the video it was clear that Blizzard with OW had no intention of trying to make sure players who were harassing others over performance ever saw any type of accountability for their words/speech. Which ultimatley drove OW into the ground it's in now, because without those actual toxicity control measures sponsors were pulling out which started the downward spiral for OW.

As I watched I started thinking to myself the problems that Kaplan faced with OW isn't just an OW issue, this is culture issue at the company. There's no real desire to try and create a welcoming space for everyone inside of their games.

BTW: Here's the link to the video. It's not dude who opines about things, but DoaG only does games that have gone into maintenance mode, or vanished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ZFo8jpDfI

Regarding OW that's just pure nonsense. You're doing Blizzard actually a favor by saying that OW has only "died" (btw. it didn't) because of toxicity, while ignoring 99% of everything else.

[Miffinat0r]

No they shouldn't, because it would be an automated system that could be easily abused.

If they had real and paid GM's that would actively moderate public channels then sure (assuming they'd be fair and forgiving and not just powertripping).

- - - Updated - - -



Regarding OW that's just pure nonsense. You're doing Blizzard actually a favor by saying that OW has only "died" (btw. it didn't) because of toxicity, while ignoring 99% of everything else.

I hear you on the automation--I was assuming a report is filed it'd go to a team for review then they make the call there but would have pretty strict rules and aren't afraid of using that power.

[Caprias]

Oh nice, the WoW andy brigade being opinionated on how things in FF work without ever having played it at endgame, the classic.

I've kicked so many ppl that clearly don't pull their weight, it's no problem there.

As for the topic... doing more than basically nothing to moderate the game would surely be a good thing i guess, it would have to be a bit better than shitty automatic systems though, things like... uh how are they called again? game masters something something?

[vsb]

Fight toxicity: yes.

Ban innocent players who dares to write something non-trade-related in /2? No.

[NineSpine]

FF is designed for bad players, WoW is not. So FF does not allow to tell people how bad they are, and that is the sad part where this world has come to.

Fucking Cancel Culture and not being allowed to say anything about anything.
Just no. Only becasue someone told you you made something wrong or you made something bad it is not toxic. But guys like you that feel like it's toxic are whining that fast these days and instantly drop off out of groups and stop playing. This should be punished hard, extremely hard.

Elitists are what keep this planet alive. Not only in WoW. Everywhere.
If we are not allowed to tell you to improve and stay shit everything is going down.

And before something becomes another shit hardcore low trash player game like FF it should rather die.
I would rather kill myself, too, than thinking nobody is allowed to tell me I did bad when they boosted me through something, no matter what it is.

Fuck the Casuals, for The Elite.

You sound well adjusted.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the whole toxicity problem is blown way out of proportion.

You get it mostly in queued content. And you will never get rid of it. Swinging the banhammer everytime someone is offended by xyz is a stupid thing. Also you never know when someone actually means something as a joke or not. Or something is taken out of context.

Remeber the old screenshot of someone asking for a country with n at the beginning in CoD it was i think?

FF14 has a horrible take on it. Hell i cannot even tell someone he is doing basically everything wrong. So i have to find another reason to not play with him and be fake-friendly?

I hate the term snowflake but really it is quite fitting sometimes. A total rando you enver meet in your live says something mean? Well.. get over it. Sticks and stones etc. SOmeone insults me in a pug i put him on ignore. Done. No problem ever again with him.

Trying to get rid of toxicity in anonymous content anywhere is a Sisyphean Task. Only way to really get rid of most is by Real Names in the game.... which they tried...and immediatly abandond.

I've never seen anyone get punished in FF14 for telling someone else they were doing something wrong. That isn't the real world.

[Miffinat0r]

I think so many people here worry that their nuanced jokes, banter, or anything political would be targeted. While I don't support any type of action on any of those 3 I think this is more to address what I watched my buddy do last night in a PuG for a M+ dungeon. They timed it but the entire time a Rogue was yelling at a frost mage that he's not carrying his weight and without offering any type of help or constructive advice, he decided that insults were the best tool. That's kinda what people are asking for when I see this topic pop up. Players don't want to be verbally harassed for performance, most would take help if it's offered in a courteous manner, but nah it's better to just git gud.

Lol it's nuts to me when I think about this and it's really Blizzard's culture just toss it on the pile of things that the company refuses to evolve on.

[NineSpine]

I think the whole toxicity problem is blown way out of proportion.

You get it mostly in queued content. And you will never get rid of it. Swinging the banhammer everytime someone is offended by xyz is a stupid thing. Also you never know when someone actually means something as a joke or not. Or something is taken out of context.

Remeber the old screenshot of someone asking for a country with n at the beginning in CoD it was i think?

FF14 has a horrible take on it. Hell i cannot even tell someone he is doing basically everything wrong. So i have to find another reason to not play with him and be fake-friendly?

I hate the term snowflake but really it is quite fitting sometimes. A total rando you enver meet in your live says something mean? Well.. get over it. Sticks and stones etc. SOmeone insults me in a pug i put him on ignore. Done. No problem ever again with him.

Trying to get rid of toxicity in anonymous content anywhere is a Sisyphean Task. Only way to really get rid of most is by Real Names in the game.... which they tried...and immediatly abandond.

Weird how FF14 managed to do this "Sisyphean task" easily.

The real snowflakes are the people who think "HOW CAN I LIVE IF I CANT CALL SOMEONE THE N WORD FOR DOING LOW DPS?!?!?!?!"

[Miffinat0r]

Weird how FF14 managed to do this "Sisyphean task" easily.

The real snowflakes are the people who think "HOW CAN I LIVE IF I CANT CALL SOMEONE THE N WORD FOR DOING LOW DPS?!?!?!?!"

That's a bit hyperbolic. It's more like how can I not be mad at that person?! Anger is an emotion, and it's useful it provides focus and determination, but expressing anger without trying to improve gameplay for the people you're playing with? Ya dude you need to chill out it's a game.

[Sucralose]

It is already rather draconian... I rather encourage people to use ignore then try in vain to police the entire population or drive them into third party chat programs.