Should WoW adopt a tougher stance on Toxicity in-game?

[Djuntas]

I had a GM in EQ keep summoning me as a lvl 1 warrior human named Vtech and the entire reason was because I was named after another company. He made me change my name. That was in 2003.

They had to have bought boosts. Then again not many people are out in the world leveling so could've flown under the radar.

There is no level boost in som. And trust me, on this server there are more than a lot of people So its funny. Your GM seems very kind too lol.

[Daish]

Question is simple--would you like to see a stronger toxicity control team installed within WoW.

Personally after watching DoaG yesterday it's pretty clear Blizzard has a track record of not taking toxicity seriously (I mean...they did hire Alex). But while watching the video it was clear that Blizzard with OW had no intention of trying to make sure players who were harassing others over performance ever saw any type of accountability for their words/speech. Which ultimatley drove OW into the ground it's in now, because without those actual toxicity control measures sponsors were pulling out which started the downward spiral for OW.

As I watched I started thinking to myself the problems that Kaplan faced with OW isn't just an OW issue, this is culture issue at the company. There's no real desire to try and create a welcoming space for everyone inside of their games.

BTW: Here's the link to the video. It's not dude who opines about things, but DoaG only does games that have gone into maintenance mode, or vanished.

you do know toxicity is just another name for the word "bad"

you do know almost everything can be categorized as bad

if you want rules make real rules if people are getting banned and being told "you bad so you banned" how do you expect them to correct their behaviour the only thing they will end up doing is quit the game and this will keep happening until the game dies

[Caprias]

That's a bit hyperbolic. It's more like how can I not be mad at that person?! Anger is an emotion, and it's useful it provides focus and determination, but expressing anger without trying to improve gameplay for the people you're playing with? Ya dude you need to chill out it's a game.

Active working moderation will never stop really toxic players from still being toxic, Riot games has some nice articles and stats on that.

What it will do is give the majority of "temperamental" players the idea in the back of their mind to maybe take a deep breath and reconsider just for a second if they really need to press enter on that "in the moment" message and if it's worth the possible consequences, that's enough to reduce chat abuse and griefing by a mile.

[vincink]

I have a contrarian opinion, which is: I think WoW solves the problem sufficiently.

The player has the tools to change his experience with "toxic" players: ignore list, reporting, leaving a channel, and leaving a guild. Blizzard has the tools to analyze and automate some of the "toxic behavior" in the game: support monitoring (by a person), automated analysis tools, and the "banhammer".

Neither the player nor Blizzard have the tools to catch, stop, prevent, and/or punish instantly every single instance of "toxic behavior". And that is the correct way to do it because everything hinges on the definition of "toxic behavior" that deserves punishing.

What is the definition of "toxic"?

[Miffinat0r]

I have a contrarian opinion, which is: I think WoW solves the problem sufficiently.

The player has the tools to change his experience with "toxic" players: ignore list, reporting, leaving a channel, and leaving a guild. Blizzard has the tools to analyze and automate some of the "toxic behavior" in the game: support monitoring (by a person), automated analysis tools, and the "banhammer".

Neither the player nor Blizzard have the tools to catch, stop, prevent, and/or punish instantly every single instance of "toxic behavior". And that is the correct way to do it because everything hinges on the definition of "toxic behavior" that deserves punishing.

What is the definition of "toxic"?

Definition of toxic would be: You're in a pug and you're behind on the DPS meter. You're trying, but someone in the pug doesn't like that, and instead of offering assistance to help you improve, and improve their own gameplay it would be like: "LOL MAGE IS TRASH" Ya--that's toxic. I also made that PG because usually it's a lot more expletive.

[Daish]

I have a contrarian opinion, which is: I think WoW solves the problem sufficiently.

The player has the tools to change his experience with "toxic" players: ignore list, reporting, leaving a channel, and leaving a guild. Blizzard has the tools to analyze and automate some of the "toxic behavior" in the game: support monitoring (by a person), automated analysis tools, and the "banhammer".

Neither the player nor Blizzard have the tools to catch, stop, prevent, and/or punish instantly every single instance of "toxic behavior". And that is the correct way to do it because everything hinges on the definition of "toxic behavior" that deserves punishing.

What is the definition of "toxic"?

Toxic can mean everything from threats of murder and rape to calling someone bad because their DPS is low
the word is meaningless

[ablib]

Another poll that's impossible to answer. Blizzard does have a "toxicity control team". They've released a TON of information about how they're combating this.

Why do brain dead threads continue to exist here?

[vincink]

Toxic can mean everything from threats of murder and rape to calling someone bad because their DPS is low
the word is meaningless

Exactly. When the definition of a word is important to the administration of punishment, and that definition is fluid, then anyone can be made a criminal.

[Caprias]

Toxic can mean everything from threats of murder and rape to calling someone bad because their DPS is low
the word is meaningless

Both things are not helpful and have never made the situation better in any way, wasting your own time pretty much even more.
Someone won't start instantly developing proper muscle memory, decision making and class knowledge if you call them out on being bad, they'll likely just get pissed and make the situation worse.

If someone isn't carrying their own weight you kick them or leave the group, no need to start insulting people.

[Miffinat0r]

Both things are not helpful and have never made the situation better in any way, wasting your own time pretty much even more.
Someone won't start instantly developing proper muscle memory, decision making and class knowledge if you call them out on being bad, they'll likely just get pissed and make the situation worse.

I always said--people really need to work a bottom dollar retail job for a year and we'd be a much more kinder society.

[cparle87]

I had a GM in EQ keep summoning me as a lvl 1 warrior human named Vtech and the entire reason was because I was named after another company. He made me change my name. That was in 2003.

They had to have bought boosts. Then again not many people are out in the world leveling so could've flown under the radar.

A friend of mine had a priest named Lethon which predated the world boss. Guy lost track of how many times he got reported for naming his toon after a lore character and had to explain to the GMs that it was his name first.

[Sucralose]

I always said--people really need to work a bottom dollar retail job for a year and we'd be a much more kinder society.

I don't know I did that and now im just bitter how much of my tax money goes to people I rather see digging through a dumpster on the street.

[The Stormbringer]

Yes, but not in the form of more automated systems or algorithms, but in the form of GAME MODERATORS, AKA actual human beings hired and trained to keep the peace. Otherwise, it's fucking worthless.

[lagiacrux]

FF is designed for bad players, WoW is not. So FF does not allow to tell people how bad they are, and that is the sad part where this world has come to.

Fucking Cancel Culture and not being allowed to say anything about anything.
Just no. Only becasue someone told you you made something wrong or you made something bad it is not toxic. But guys like you that feel like it's toxic are whining that fast these days and instantly drop off out of groups and stop playing. This should be punished hard, extremely hard.

Elitists are what keep this planet alive. Not only in WoW. Everywhere.
If we are not allowed to tell you to improve and stay shit everything is going down.

And before something becomes another shit hardcore low trash player game like FF it should rather die.
I would rather kill myself, too, than thinking nobody is allowed to tell me I did bad when they boosted me through something, no matter what it is.

Fuck the Casuals, for The Elite.

you dont sound like a lunatic at all ...

on topic:
its hillarious to me, that waaaay too many people take "dont be toxic!" as "i cant tell someone they are bad" ... you cant totally tell them that, but you cant call them the n-word or threaten to kill them during it.
apart from that, what is telling someone "you suck at this" even solving? hes not going to go "uh wow, didnt know that. ill stop sucking right now!".

[Kralljin]

As long as it remains automated, they can fuck off.

Automated system are just a field day for abusers and people attempting to avoid the obvious ruleset.
I recall the days of the DotA league where you were forbidden from insulting other players, so whenever someone wanted to say "FU", they just wrote "SU", so the player was strictly speaking not insulting another player but anyone with a modicum of understanding knows what's going on.

You need an actual human who reviews reports and hands out penalties.

It also needs to be said that the video also points out that part of OW's toxicity is caused by its design, Blizzard initially wanted to solely have a pre made 6v6 game mode, but instead bowed to pressure to go with a run of the mill solo queue competitive ladder - sometimes, listening to those "I want to play solo!" cries are not yielded with success.

[chiddie]

Exactly. When the definition of a word is important to the administration of punishment, and that definition is fluid, then anyone can be made a criminal.

Labeling anyone as “trash” is not “fluid”. Try saying your colleague face to face he/she is trash and enjoy seeing what happens next.

[Gimlix]

The toxic part is part of the game, like the PVP'ers showing off and being assholes. If you wanna streamline it all being it all strict under rules will remove even more magic from the game.

Not saying there shouldn't be a line in how far you should go in terms of toxicity, but going extra out on it seems a bit meh. It will just remove another chunk of people probably.

[Caprias]

The toxic part is part of the game, like the PVP'ers showing off and being assholes. If you wanna streamline it all being it all strict under rules will remove even more magic from the game.

What the fuck dude, lmao.

[vincink]

Labeling anyone as “trash” is not “fluid”. Try saying your colleague face to face he/she is trash and enjoy seeing what happens next.

There are definitely things that a significant majority will agree is detestable. Calling someone "trash" is indeed one of them. But that's not what I'm necessarily concerned about. (I do have concerns about that, though.)

My concern here is with the extent to which the definition of "toxic" can be stretched. Is there a limit? If so, where? If calling someone the "N" word is definitely within that limit, then is calling someone an "idiot" within that limit as well? What about calling someone, childishly, a "dummy"? Or a "goober"? Or a "fool"? And what about non-verbals? What if someone runs in a circle around another player? Is that within that limit? What about bragging? Some people love to brag.

The questions is not about what we agree on but what we disagree on.

[Gimlix]

What the fuck dude, lmao.

Being able to say you ass, and not getting warned for is pretty much amazing. Like you want everyone to be very friendly alike and not being a real human?
Like as i said before, it depends on how far you go. Like there is a line how far you can go.