Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Milchshake]

Russia used high-stakes meeting at NATO headquarters today to revisit a pile of old grievances against Western alliance including... Yugoslavia, Libya; etc.

<Putin> used high-stakes meeting at NATO headquarters today to revisit a pile of old grievances against Western alliance including... <other times a brutal Dictator got removed>.

[Ulmita]

Try reading, every link says current rank and rank in 2030/2050. Russia doesn't move up in any link.




2017 rank = 6 2050 rank = 6 No change




2017 = 6 2030 = 8 dropping 2 ranks.

Did you read that it's pre-sanctions (aka 2016-2017) or skipped that? In 2021 Russia ranked 11th...
Also rank spots paint half picture, try comparing the increase in GDP as well.

[Ettan]

Problem with those comparisons and russia is they generally dont account for what goes into the pockets of Putin & frens.
Though its probably not too far off. Certainly more accurate than russian covid numbers.

Anyway im about ready to get the popcorn out.

Some relevant fun to follow, if interested;

https://twitter.com/The_Lookout_N
- totally not Rena camp (tm)
https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael
- analyst, director of Russia Studies at CNA
https://twitter.com/konrad_muzyka
- independent defence analyst
https://twitter.com/nolanwpeterson
- reporter based in ukraine

[Yadryonych]

Did you read that it's pre-sanctions (aka 2016-2017) or skipped that? In 2021 Russia ranked 11th...
Also rank spots paint half picture, try comparing the increase in GDP as well.

The whole thing entirely misses the recent brandon's funflation anyway and COVID crisis as well

[Easo]

That was expected.

- Double standards of claiming that NATO expansion as not threat to Russia (it is and anyone with half a brain can see that, since NATO is anti-Russia alliance), while whining about Russia's actions on Russian territory.
- Everything NATO does is good, everything Russia does is bad.
- Not being able to discuss anything, just yelling demands and doubling down on anti-Russian rhetoric. Not a day goes by without news of some politician (ones in charge of various NATO countries, so not just random politician) threatening Russia with sanctions and demanding that others refuse to even discuss anything.
- Weaponising countries near Russian border. Now giving weapons to Ukraine, so they could kill more Russians.

Clearly NATO wants war. And we'll get it. I think I should move the fuck away from Baltics as soon as possible because idiots in charge of pretty much every NATO countries will get us killed... in name of democracy that is, so sacrifice is acceptable.

That's further than NATO bases near Russian border in all baltic states. But I guess you don't see that as problem, only Russian troops are the problem, NATO bases near Russian border are fine.

Fascinating. Tell me more. I am totally not being sarcastic right now. Totally. Pinky swear.

Seriously though - no one wants war. Get a grip and stop panicking, also next time write less propaganda about drinking Russian baby blood.

[Shalcker]

Skipping straight to, "Yeah, but the US..." rather than actually addressing the point.

"Pure rationality" is both unnecessary and unachievable in international relations; pointing to it is basically saying "why noone should get nukes". But we already have nukes in not-perfectly-reasonable hands, and world haven't ended.

Saying it will if more countries do is pure fear-mongering - trying to keep exclusivity to guard your own power against retaliation.

"If Ukraine would have nukes instead of Budapest Memorandum" is thread-relevant example.

Noone would allow them to keep them at the time, obviously.

I know you're not intended to do this, but it's hard to read these posts as much more than some light apologizing for terrorism. That world powers aren't casually dropping nukes everywhere is largely viewed as a good thing.

Why do you expect everyone to drop nukes casually once they have them if noone who has them does?

Nukes are actually much better threat unused; deterrent rather then starting point.

[PC2]

- Not being able to discuss anything, just yelling demands and doubling down on anti-Russian rhetoric. Not a day goes by without news of some politician (ones in charge of various NATO countries, so not just random politician) threatening Russia with sanctions and demanding that others refuse to even discuss anything.

See that point really resonates with me. I don't even want to be pro-Russia but when there's so many people who won't even let the other side talk it just slows down the process of solving problems between nations.

Now giving weapons to Ukraine, so they could kill more Russians.

They don't want that though.

Clearly NATO wants war. And we'll get it. I think I should move the fuck away from Baltics as soon as possible because idiots in charge of pretty much every NATO countries will get us killed...

Probably not. Would you be willing to bet real life money on that prediction? What'll probably happen is the side that is more in the wrong will eventually have to back down.

[Orange Joe]

Did you read that it's pre-sanctions (aka 2016-2017) or skipped that? In 2021 Russia ranked 11th...
Also rank spots paint half picture, try comparing the increase in GDP as well.

And? fact remains it doesn't show them becoming a top 10 economy.

[Swnem]

Did you read that it's pre-sanctions (aka 2016-2017) or skipped that? In 2021 Russia ranked 11th...
Also rank spots paint half picture, try comparing the increase in GDP as well.

Agreed. Long term predictions like that are bogus propaganda. There are many things that can happen to change them.

Currently Russia and Brazil have inflation around 10%. That is not the sign of healthy economies.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Agreed. Long term predictions like that are bogus propaganda. There are many things that can happen to change them.

Currently Russia and Brazil have inflation around 10%. That is not the sign of healthy economies.

To be fair, last I've recently heard a few EU countries have it even higher, and isn't the US currently above 6% which to me appear substantial?

All thanks to the Covid Money Printing Mania.

[Edge-]

All thanks to the Covid Money Printing Mania.

Not really. Folks are buying more right now, yeah, but also like...fuckin everyone is still sick, so it's hard to actually get good moved anywhere. Container ships are stuck for days or usually weeks, depending on where they are, before unloading which is fucking up their schedules. Ports can't get rid of shipping containers quickly enough. Everyone's waiting on trucks to deliver those containers since there's still issues finding enough truckers to run the trips needed due in part to the way in which that industry operates.

Plus other factors beyond that like some goods having issues getting manufactured due to covid issues in their supply chains etc.

[Swnem]

To be fair, last I've recently heard a few EU countries have it even higher, and isn't the US currently above 6% which to me appear substantial?

All thanks to the Covid Money Printing Mania.

I don't know about that. Maybe you you mean eastern Europe?

https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe

If you look at G20 though:
https://tradingeconomics.com/country...inflation-rate

Russia and Brazil are hardly in an enviable position. This is reality. Not a silly 30 years prediction that doesn't take into account changing conditions.

[Ulmita]

I don't know about that. Maybe you you mean eastern Europe?

https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe

If you look at G20 though:
https://tradingeconomics.com/country...inflation-rate

Russia and Brazil are hardly in an enviable position. This is reality. Not a silly 30 years prediction that doesn't take into account changing conditions.

Russia will be fine dude, don't worry about them. And those silly 18 years predictions are made by world's topmost orgs with a proven history of predicting shit right, not random dudes in some wow forums.

Let's not derail the thread anymore.

[PC2]

Russia will be fine dude, don't worry about them.

Maybe IF they get their population back up over 147 million. It went up, and then down, and then up again so they'll need to address that instability if they want to become the world's superpower in the future.

And those silly 18 years predictions are made by world's topmost orgs with a proven history of predicting shit right, not random dudes in some wow forums.

I mean it's impossible to predict the future of a society which is why no one has ever reliably predicted economic downturns/upturns.

[Swnem]

Russia will be fine dude, don't worry about them. And those silly 18 years predictions are made by world's topmost orgs with a proven history of predicting shit right, not random dudes in some wow forums.

Let's not derail the thread anymore.

Yeah... except random guy on the forums didn't make a prediction. He is just telling you how the predictions are made and how fallible they are. And yes, they are rarely on the target. Its a prediction to 2050. That is 28 years, not 18. It was seemingly published in 2018, so a prediction of 32 years that is already failing after 4.
But, you do you, if it helps you cope better.

[Easo]

As for the talks - they have as of now ended with pretty much nothing and NATO's rhetoric hasn't changed. Quite the contrary to the tone of bots I have seen who were going on about how USA is going throw Eastern Europe to the wolves and agree with Russia's offer (ultimatum).

Ukraine: 'Massive cyber attack' shuts down government websites

Who ever could it have been?

Definitely some random misguided patriotic Russian group working on their own and not a state. Definitely.

[Mayhem]

That non-aggression can prevent war between two countries is basic logic.

And it worked too - Hitler went to fight with France and Britain who actually declared war on him after Poland .

He and others had plenty of speeches about it even from early 30's; it wasn't some kind of secret.

Again, "declare war for Poland" was secret part of British/French agreement.

It was also potentially possible for Poland to be used in the same way Finland was used in Plan Barbarossa; non-aggression pact preempted that.

West didn't want to fight USSR themselves but they could easily support Hitler doing that.

They didn't have much love for Comintern either.

Ok, it's common that history is written by the victors but dude whatever they teach you doesn't make sense.

[Shalcker]

Ok, it's common that history is written by the victors but dude whatever they teach you doesn't make sense.

Which point doesn't make sense to you?

It is quite interesting to compare WW2 myths in different cultures.

[Yadryonych]

US claims Russia planning ‘false-flag’ operation to justify Ukraine invasion

How silly are these people to think Russia needs to "justify" the Ukraine invasion after having been blamed for invading it for years? No one can be this silly, that's just a blatant shilling at this point

[jonnysensible]

How silly are these people to think Russia needs to "justify" the Ukraine invasion after having been blamed for invading it for years? No one can be this silly, that's just a blatant shilling at this point

Russia has invaded Ukraine (Crimea and donbass). It wants to take further action (as its a scumbag imperialist power).